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Old 13.08.2015, 21:07
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im unable to work. i get dr certificate each month 100%.
my social worker told mt to sign this documents that gives them the right to: talk to the people who live around my flat, to police, drs, ahv, government in land where i was born ect. i feel that im being mistreated,that they are being raciest towards me and that they are treating me like a criminal.
was told sign or we stop ur money. thats blackmail.
is that correct that if i get sozial help i dont have a say in what happens in my life?
they want to put me in ahv in 2 years time and i say no, i have take away their rights to do that.
Please can anyone help me. i live in canton Bern and no one wants to help me here.

im a swiss female who was born in another country.
please help me

Last edited by 3Wishes; 13.08.2015 at 23:17. Reason: merging consecutive posts
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Old 13.08.2015, 21:26
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Re: help from sozialdienst

Are you temporarily or permanently unable to work? If permanently then of course they are going to do a lot of background checks...

On what grounds are you accusing them of "racism"? Have they made specific reference to your race or colour?
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Old 13.08.2015, 21:30
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Re: help from sozialdienst

Social assistance is the last resort and is only granted after the authorities are satisfied that you have no other alternative, so yes they will want to investigate you fully before you get anything.

Again if you are unable to work and qualify for AHV, then that is the appropriate route to take.

Having said that you are not obliged to do any of this if you don't wish, but don't expect to get much if any support should you decide not to follow the standard processes.
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Old 14.08.2015, 00:45
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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im unable to work. i get dr certificate each month 100%.
my social worker told mt to sign this documents that gives them the right to: talk to the people who live around my flat, to police, drs, ahv, government in land where i was born ect. i feel that im being mistreated,that they are being raciest towards me and that they are treating me like a criminal.
was told sign or we stop ur money.
please help me
When you say it's "ur" money - don't you mean the money paid in by those actually working and contributing ?
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Old 14.08.2015, 01:11
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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im unable to work. i get dr certificate each month 100%.
my social worker told mt to sign this documents that gives them the right to: talk to the people who live around my flat, to police, drs, ahv, government in land where i was born ect. i feel that im being mistreated,that they are being raciest towards me and that they are treating me like a criminal.
was told sign or we stop ur money. thats blackmail.
is that correct that if i get sozial help i dont have a say in what happens in my life?
they want to put me in ahv in 2 years time and i say no, i have take away their rights to do that.
Please can anyone help me. i live in canton Bern and no one wants to help me here.

im a swiss female who was born in another country.
please help me
This has nothing whatsoever to do with blackmail or racism.

It's the law that you are required to follow orders from social services if you request their assistance. You are required to give necessary information regarding yor personal and economic situation and to report changes in your personal and economic situation without being asked. You are required to do what is necessary to stop needing benefits. You are required to take on reasonable work.
If you don't do what you are required to, benefits can be stripped up to a certain amount.

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When you say it's "ur" money - don't you mean the money paid in by those actually working and contributing ?
It's paid for by our taxes, which includes taxes paid by the unemployed, btw - and has to be paid back by the recipients as soon as they are able to.

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Social assistance is the last resort and is only granted after the authorities are satisfied that you have no other alternative, so yes they will want to investigate you fully before you get anything.

Again if you are unable to work and qualify for AHV, then that is the appropriate route to take.

Having said that you are not obliged to do any of this if you don't wish, but don't expect to get much if any support should you decide not to follow the standard processes.
As social assistance really is the last resort and Switzerland is one of the countries which luckily has such a system in place, you won't get any support if you don't follow procedures. There is no net under this one to catch you.

Last edited by glowjupiter; 14.08.2015 at 01:40.
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Old 14.08.2015, 11:27
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Re: help from sozialdienst

im swiss. its my right to be in Switzerland. no one has the right to treat me like i have done something that i have to be ashamed about. i dont do anything wrong. i like everything to be correct. but somethings the social do is not correct.
exp. This swiss lady is married to an indian man. he dont have work. he gets help from social. social told his wife she must be careful that he will steal all her money and run away.
they did not have the right to say this things to this woman about her husband.
its not nice to bring people down.
WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND & What you do to others you get back 1000 fold. thats from the Bible
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Old 14.08.2015, 11:41
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Re: help from sozialdienst

In any working field there may be those who are those who are not really suited to the job. Someone working in Social Services should have understanding for their clients' situations. On the other hand, they probably have a lot more experience in this sort of thing than either you or I do. Once bitten, twice shy. I imagine that they have already had cases where a foreign national has gone back to his/her homeland with money intended to support the family here.

Those paying taxes which are used for Social Assistance are probably glad that someone keeps an eye on where the money goes. It may seem like racism or discrimination to you, but it may seem like someone being careful with other people's money to some of us.
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Old 14.08.2015, 11:42
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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im swiss. its my right to be in Switzerland. no one has the right to treat me like i have done something that i have to be ashamed about. i dont do anything wrong. i like everything to be correct. but somethings the social do is not correct.
exp. This swiss lady is married to an indian man. he dont have work. he gets help from social. social told his wife she must be careful that he will steal all her money and run away.
they did not have the right to say this things to this woman about her husband.
its not nice to bring people down.
WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND & What you do to others you get back 1000 fold. thats from the Bible
So you and your husband are both on social welfare? Why can he also not work? Did he previously have a job in Switzerland?
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Old 14.08.2015, 11:48
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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im swiss. its my right to be in Switzerland. no one has the right to treat me like i have done something that i have to be ashamed about. i dont do anything wrong. i like everything to be correct. but somethings the social do is not correct.
exp. This swiss lady is married to an indian man. he dont have work. he gets help from social. social told his wife she must be careful that he will steal all her money and run away.
they did not have the right to say this things to this woman about her husband.
Right, you have a right to be here. But as you want something (money) from the Sozialhilfe, therefore they can expect some "playing along with the rules" from you. They are handling money that was paid in by all people working in Switzerland so they want to make sure it is handed out correctly.
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Old 14.08.2015, 12:35
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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im swiss. its my right to be in Switzerland. no one has the right to treat me like i have done something that i have to be ashamed about. i dont do anything wrong. i like everything to be correct. but somethings the social do is not correct.
exp. This swiss lady is married to an indian man. he dont have work. he gets help from social. social told his wife she must be careful that he will steal all her money and run away.
they did not have the right to say this things to this woman about her husband.
its not nice to bring people down.
WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND & What you do to others you get back 1000 fold. thats from the Bible
Having a right to live in Switzerland does not equate to a right to live off the money of others (that money doesn't magically come out of the air but is formed of the contributions of your co-citizens). Social support is intended for those in genuine need. You thus need to prove you are in genuine need. This may involve revealing details about your bank accounts, miscellaneous income, assets, investments and indeed family members who might be in a position to support you.

This is the principle of solidarity.
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Old 14.08.2015, 12:43
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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In any working field there may be those who are those who are not really suited to the job. Someone working in Social Services should have understanding for their clients' situations. On the other hand, they probably have a lot more experience in this sort of thing than either you or I do. Once bitten, twice shy. I imagine that they have already had cases where a foreign national has gone back to his/her homeland with money intended to support the family here.

Those paying taxes which are used for Social Assistance are probably glad that someone keeps an eye on where the money goes. It may seem like racism or discrimination to you, but it may seem like someone being careful with other people's money to some of us.
In Zürich a couple of years back there was a scandal when it was revealed a family was creaming the system big style and if I remeber correctly people were fired for not doing due diligence. So it is understandable they err on the side of caution.

Social support is something I'm sure we all agree is an important safety net. So we need to protect that safety net against misuse.
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Old 14.08.2015, 12:55
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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is that correct that if i get sozial help i dont have a say in what happens in my life?
No you don't as soon as you are on Sozialhilfe you are in effect a warden of the state, you are deemed to be incapable of organizing your life and you will be told where you can live, what you can eat, what you can wear. And forget about luxuries like a car.
And here is the bad part, as soon as you manage to sort you life out again and you have convinced the Sozialhilfe guys that you no longer need their help you can think how to pay the money you owe to the state back, of course they are not inhuman and will give you a payment plan according to your means. Unless of course you want to stay on Sozialhilfe for the rest of your life.
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Old 14.08.2015, 13:12
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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In Zürich a couple of years back there was a scandal when it was revealed a family was creaming the system big style and if I remeber correctly people were fired for not doing due diligence. So it is understandable they err on the side of caution.

Social support is something I'm sure we all agree is an important safety net. So we need to protect that safety net against misuse.
I know a 57 year old Swiss who, having worked and contributed (as a financial controller) to the Swiss tax system since 20 (without any interruption), at 55 became unable to work due to illness. Since then, he has gladly complied with all of the extremely stringent controls and information he's required to provide in order to qualify for social assistance or AHV. In fact, in his case I think he's been subject to much more. And it is certainly not a position he ever thought he would find himself in (or want).

Additionally, he has accepted any type of work suggested by the authorities, mostly on a voluntary or intern basis, which he is able to do in order to keep as far as possible a functioning member of society i.e. working part-time in an NGO, and now since over one year doing the lunchtime work at a Kindergarten (including dishwasher duty). He has been very happy to do this, and although he is living on the existence minimum, the system has been hard but keeps him sane in a very difficult situation.

He still does not yet know whether his AHV application will be permanently accepted this year, but we keep our fingers crossed. What you are going through has absolutely nothing to do with any form of racism or being treated any differently to any other normal Swiss person.

We can all feel lucky to be living in a country which has such a system to fall back on, and having worked here since over 20 years and been through my own fair share of hardships, I personally cannot currently sympathise with your attitude.

I do understand that you feel it is an intrusion of your privacy, however as previously mentioned in this thread - it is just a law which is there to protect all, including yourself.

Good luck with your situation anyway.
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Old 14.08.2015, 13:18
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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I know a 57 year old Swiss who, having worked and contributed (as a financial controller) to the Swiss tax system since 20 (without any interruption), at 55 became unable to work due to illness. Since then, he has gladly complied with all of the extremely stringent controls and information he's required to provide in order to qualify for social assistance or AHV. In fact, in his case I think he's been subject to much more. And it is certainly not a position he ever thought he would find himself in (or want).

Additionally, he has accepted any type of work suggested by the authorities, mostly on a voluntary or intern basis, which he is able to do in order to keep as far as possible a functioning member of society i.e. working part-time in an NGO, and now since over one year doing the lunchtime work at a Kindergarten (including dishwasher duty). He has been very happy to do this, and although he is living on the existence minimum, the system has been hard but keeps him sane in a very difficult situation.

He still does not yet know whether his AHV application will be permanently accepted this year, but we keep our fingers crossed. What you are going through has absolutely nothing to do with any form of racism or being treated any differently to any other normal Swiss person.

We can all feel lucky to be living in a country which has such a system to fall back on, and having worked here since over 20 years and been through my own fair share of hardships, I personally cannot currently sympathise with your attitude.

I do understand that you feel it is an intrusion of your privacy, however as previously mentioned in this thread - it is just a law which is there to protect all, including yourself.

Good luck with your situation anyway.
Just out of interest, how much money do you get per month when you are on full social benefits? Around a 1000chf or so? And do they pay for a (very) basic small apartment etc?
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Old 14.08.2015, 13:19
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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In Zürich a couple of years back there was a scandal when it was revealed a family was creaming the system big style and if I remeber correctly people were fired for not doing due diligence. So it is understandable they err on the side of caution.

Social support is something I'm sure we all agree is an important safety net. So we need to protect that safety net against misuse.
Apologies Amogles - I meant to quote the original post - any chance this can be changed?
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Old 14.08.2015, 13:25
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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Just out of interest, how much money do you get per month when you are on full social benefits? Around a 1000chf or so? And do they pay for a (very) basic small apartment etc?
I don't know his details, but as Slammer also mentioned, I do know he is currently a Warden of the State for now. I believe his apartment (2.5 rooms) which he already had before this hardship, is funded, plus Krankenkasse - but I'm really not the right person to ask
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Old 14.08.2015, 13:40
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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Just out of interest, how much money do you get per month when you are on full social benefits? Around a 1000chf or so? And do they pay for a (very) basic small apartment etc?
I don't think there is an absolute amount anybody is entitled to but they look at cases individually.

I don't think there is any right to pocket money or money for luxuries, but payments more or less reflect provable and justifiable costs.

I have a friend who is a physiotherapist. One of her patients was on socialhilfe and he refused to pay his bill although the social services had given him the money. The social workers told my friend it wasn't their problem as they had already given him the money and it was his responsibility to pay. All she could do was initaite a Betreibung, but seeing there was little chance of recovering anything but she would be left with he costs, she decided to let the matter slip.
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Old 14.08.2015, 13:57
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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Old 14.08.2015, 14:26
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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I don't think there is an absolute amount anybody is entitled to but they look at cases individually.

I don't think there is any right to pocket money or money for luxuries, but payments more or less reflect provable and justifiable costs.

I have a friend who is a physiotherapist. One of her patients was on socialhilfe and he refused to pay his bill although the social services had given him the money. The social workers told my friend it wasn't their problem as they had already given him the money and it was his responsibility to pay. All she could do was initaite a Betreibung, but seeing there was little chance of recovering anything but she would be left with he costs, she decided to let the matter slip.
Someone I know well, born and bred in Switzerland and lived here, working, for about 50% of his life- returned here aged 63 from an exotic island. His flat gets paid and also his health insurance, as well as his dependent wife's who became Swiss recently by marriage (born on said exotic island) - and a modest sum of money for basics. The money depends on where you live- rents where this person lives in about 1/3 of less than in Zurich or Geneva.

And yes, his life was scrutinised very closely, all his previous contributions to the Swiss system taken into consideration- and when he inherited when his parents died- the money paid to him and his wife from the Social was taken out of his inheritance, and the social cut out from there on. Now over 65, he is getting a reduced Swiss pension as he did not contribute to the pension system for a large part of his life. His wife is younger and has been required to work as a cleaner to pay for her living costs.

My dad, born and bred here, and working full time all his life, lost his work aged 64 and 3 months as the place where he worked went bust. There was no work for a watchmaker, so he had to help relay the railway line and do other hard manual work for the next 9 months until he retired (that was unemployment money though- not social. But for a 64 year old who worked full time from the age of 14- born in 1912!, contributed to the system all his life and lost his job through NO fault of his own- he was a watch maker).
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Old 14.08.2015, 14:36
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Re: help from sozialdienst

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My dad, born and bred here, and working full time all his life, lost his work aged 64 and 3 months as the place where he worked went bust. There was no work for a watchmaker, so he had to help relay the railway line and do other hard manual work for the next 9 months until he retired (that was unemployment money though- not social. But for a 64 year old who worked full time from the age of 14- born in 1912!, contributed to the system all his life and lost his job through NO fault of his own- he was a watch maker).
I think things have got better now, and you can take an early retirement within certain limits, meaning you get slightly less but that may still be better than doing some job that is overly taxing.

There was a suggestion some years ago, or maybe it is still around, to scrap the retirement age and replace it by a measure of the number of years worked (during which contribution was payed, so education doesn't count). If everybody needs to work (say) 40 years, somebody who starts at 16 will be able to retire at 56. A heavy construction worker who is in his late 50s will have a hard time finding a job if he gets laid off, whereas a university professor is still going to be a sought after expert when he's 10 years older than that. So I think it's a good idea seeing its unjust to ask all professions to retire at the same age.
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