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Old 04.09.2015, 09:54
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How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

Hello everyone,

just wanted your opinion on an incident that happened to me yesterday in Migros and I am not sure how to handle it.

So, I went there with my son and I used this new system that they have with the beeper device that you do it by yourself. We have been doing that with my son for quite a while now, and it has worked fine.
Anyways, when I go to put the device back , I was called by the lady at the cashiers , I thought there was a problem with the device. But they were making a check after all. It turns out that I forgot to beep (me and my son, because we do that together) 4 items, and although for one of them I wasn't quite sure if I had beeped it , I remember for all the others that I had, I mean I don't understand the reason why I beeped 3 out of 4 beetroot, but anyway that's not the problem.

The problem is that they treated me as if I was a thief. No really, the lady started waving the items I forgot to beep as if I had committed a crime, my son was so disturbed by her attitude that he kept saying to me: She lies we did beep that, tell her that she lies. I was asking her questions she wouldn't answer , she was very rude with me , and when we finished and I completed a form , when I asked if I am getting a fine or a letter from migros, she looks at me and replies in the most rude way, in front of my son: Well, I don't know, you might get a letter, or next time you are here the device might be blocked for you. And next time don't give that to your son It is not a toy you know.
My son felt so embarrassed, he started crying, it took me half an hour to explain him that we all make mistakes, and the way she spoke to us was awful and everything.

Now, I called migros, and reported the incident (unfortunately my german is not that good so I couldn't reply to the lady at the store in the way I would have wanted to), but I am just wondering how you think I should handle it.
I mean, I spend in Migros at least 800 francs per month , and I never wanted this device , I just had a lady in front of me for several times trying to sell me the stupid thing, so at the end I got it.
Now, I suppose that Migros should bear the risk of people forgetting to beep some times an item or two, especially because i was almost forced by them to do a job they don't want to pay people to do. I am not trained in beeping things,it is not my job, and yes , I might forget one time, it might happen again, I suppose, being treated like I tried to steal from migros one beetroot, a piece of meat and two oranges, in front of my son, is not only politically incorrect, but also preposterous in an ethical point of view.

Anyway, I think yesterday I was in shock, today I feel really weird, so if you have some time to write me a line, I would really appreciate your advice.

Thank you so much,
Eleni
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Old 04.09.2015, 09:58
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

In their eyes it is simple. You had groceries in your bag that you had not paid for. So for them that is stealing and has nothing to do with political correctness or being preposterous.
Not knowing how the ones at Migros work, but where I buy I can see that it has added an item or not after scanning.

Don´t they have "regular" cashiers there?

And "beeping" is not really rocket science.
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Old 04.09.2015, 10:04
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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Don´t they have "regular" cashiers there?

.
Didn't you read the bit about the Migros lady's unrelentless push for the OP to use the self-scanner?

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And "beeping" is not really rocket science.
The cashiers screw it up enough times - and they do it for a living. There are plenty of threads on here about it.
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Old 04.09.2015, 10:09
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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Hello everyone,

just wanted your opinion on an incident that happened to me yesterday in Migros and I am not sure how to handle it.

So, I went there with my son and I used this new system that they have with the beeper device that you do it by yourself. We have been doing that with my son for quite a while now, and it has worked fine.
Anyways, when I go to put the device back , I was called by the lady at the cashiers , I thought there was a problem with the device. But they were making a check after all. It turns out that I forgot to beep (me and my son, because we do that together) 4 items, and although for one of them I wasn't quite sure if I had beeped it , I remember for all the others that I had, I mean I don't understand the reason why I beeped 3 out of 4 beetroot, but anyway that's not the problem.

The problem is that they treated me as if I was a thief. No really, the lady started waving the items I forgot to beep as if I had committed a crime, my son was so disturbed by her attitude that he kept saying to me: She lies we did beep that, tell her that she lies. I was asking her questions she wouldn't answer , she was very rude with me , and when we finished and I completed a form , when I asked if I am getting a fine or a letter from migros, she looks at me and replies in the most rude way, in front of my son: Well, I don't know, you might get a letter, or next time you are here the device might be blocked for you. And next time don't give that to your son It is not a toy you know.
My son felt so embarrassed, he started crying, it took me half an hour to explain him that we all make mistakes, and the way she spoke to us was awful and everything.

Now, I called migros, and reported the incident (unfortunately my german is not that good so I couldn't reply to the lady at the store in the way I would have wanted to), but I am just wondering how you think I should handle it.
I mean, I spend in Migros at least 800 francs per month , and I never wanted this device , I just had a lady in front of me for several times trying to sell me the stupid thing, so at the end I got it.
Now, I suppose that Migros should bear the risk of people forgetting to beep some times an item or two, especially because i was almost forced by them to do a job they don't want to pay people to do. I am not trained in beeping things,it is not my job, and yes , I might forget one time, it might happen again, I suppose, being treated like I tried to steal from migros one beetroot, a piece of meat and two oranges, in front of my son, is not only politically incorrect, but also preposterous in an ethical point of view.

Anyway, I think yesterday I was in shock, today I feel really weird, so if you have some time to write me a line, I would really appreciate your advice.

Thank you so much,
Eleni
The thing is, some people legitimately forget and others claim to have forgotten when in fact intending to steal. Not saying that you belong to the latter group, but if you (no matter who recommended it) are scanning things with those devices or paying for items via subito machine rather than going to the regular tills, you need to be extra extra vigilant about scanning EVERYTHING.

People can claim "it was just a fruit" to try to weasel their way out of responsibility, and the Migros cashier doesn't know if you are an honest forgetter or a dishonest thief. Now, they could've handled things differently, perhaps taken you aside rather than waving things around, but there are spot checks for a reason, as I am sure too many people have tried to sneak stuff in the past.
I would ignore the part about giving food to your son, if he destroys it it is your responsibility to cover damages, and as a mother I'm sure you're aware of this and don't need to be "mothered" by a cashier.

In my opinion Migros shouldn't habitually ignore people forgetting to beep because that could lead to significant losses they shouldn't have to bear. After all they are selling you something which, if you want it, it is your duty to pay for.

If you are stopped again, know they do spot checks with everyone and thus being checked is mostly not about you, and ask them to take this to the side, while making it clear that you have no intention of relieving them of their property by not paying. If you indeed have forgotten to pay for something, simply calmly offer to pay for it right away.
As for consequences (letter etc.), you cannot stop these from happening, since it is not an everyday occurrence for items to be legitimately forgotten or stolen and stores have their policies as to how they deal with these issues.

Don't take what happened the wrong way, just be extra vigilant from now on, and things'll be fine.
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Old 04.09.2015, 10:12
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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In their eyes it is simple. You had groceries in your bag that you had not paid for. So for them that is stealing and has nothing to do with political correctness or being preposterous.
Not knowing how the ones at Migros work, but where I buy I can see that it has added an item or not after scanning.

Don´t they have "regular" cashiers there?

And "beeping" is not really rocket science.
Jesus roegner, I never understand people like you who are apologists for big companies who treat people like crap.

The lady made a mistake, and any supermarket customer service rep worth their salt would deal with her courteously and treat it as a mistake, with a polite reminder to make sure all items are scanned in future... especially when there is a kid there who is obviously going to be very sensitive to any air of conflict between his parent and another adult.

It was a beetroot, not a car.
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Old 04.09.2015, 10:26
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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Didn't you read the bit about the Migros lady's unrelentless push for the OP to use the self-scanner?
saying no to sales personnel in a super market is indeed hard
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Old 04.09.2015, 10:32
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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saying no to sales personnel in a super market is indeed hard
They haven't asked me yet.

I f they do then I'm going to ask them where the staff canteen is.

That's so I can go and have a break after working my shift on the scanning.

I'm waiting for the next initiative: Have a fun hour or two stacking the shelves whilst you shop. Oh, and the aisle floors could do with a mop too!
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Old 04.09.2015, 10:33
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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The lady made a mistake, and any supermarket customer service rep worth their salt would deal with her courteously and treat it as a mistake
Yes and No - it's a paradigm thing.

From the OP's perspective she made a mistake and didn't scan the item - having used Subito a couple of times it takes time to dial the brain into doing so - a bit like moving from the UK and having to get used to weigh and pricing your own fruit and veg. Juggling the Subito between herself and her son may have raised the risk of items being missed - as well as potentially being distracted while scanning. (As Tom said even the "pros" make mistakes).

From the Company's perspective they have handed over a task that should be relatively simple - based on the fact that checkout assistants by definition are not the smartest cookies in the biscuit barrel (<awaits groans for that one>) and yet manage to scan thousands of items a day. They have trusted that the customer will not rip them off in the process. In order to prevent the latter they have to police the process and consider each person who attempts to take things without paying and someone who has done it deliberately. If they took a "soft" approach certain individuals could take advantage of this and deliberately make regular mistakes knowing they could get away with it. The resultant being that, in the long term, prices would rise because the shop would know it was receiving payment for only 80% of its goods.

I don't mind self scanning checkouts but Subito was a logic step to far for me first time out.
(Oh - and noone held a gun to my head and made me use it )
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Old 04.09.2015, 12:23
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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. It turns out that I forgot to beep (me and my son, because we do that together) 4 items,
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It was a beetroot, not a car.
It seems to have been 4 seperate items actually, not only a beetroot.
Depending on how many items she had in total this may or may not be a significant proportion of the total.


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The lady made a mistake, and any supermarket customer service rep worth their salt would deal with her courteously and treat it as a mistake, with a polite reminder to make sure all items are scanned in future... especially when there is a kid there who is obviously going to be very sensitive to any air of conflict between his parent and another adult.

:
Absolutely right. The Migros cashier behaved abominably in this case.
OK technically she was right and by taking things from the store without paying for them ( either deliberately or accidentally ) the OP was committing theft but there are ways of dealing with it and waving things in the air shouting about theft especially in front of a child is not one of them.

In the cases I've witnessed where this has happened the customer has usually apologised profusely, the cashier has said 'mistakes happen sometimes but try to be more careful in future', customer pays for all the items purchased and goes on their way having been told that there is a likelihood they will be selected for controls more frequently in the ( immediate) future.

The cashier in this case was rude and unpleasant and the OP has rightly reported this incident to the Migros management.
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Old 04.09.2015, 12:33
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

There are people who think it's OK not to scan some things, because you're paying enough money to the company already or whatever other justification they have. Some people even boast about it, for example here The Swiss Rules you love to break

Fact is, people doing this cause significant losses to the company and it IS theft. I am not saying that you are a thief, I'm sure you did do it by accident, but 4 items is really quite a lot to have forgotten. If you can't scan every item or if you are too distracted to remember, you should use the normal checkouts.

I'm actually surprised how infrequently Migros actually check. I find this great: the whole system is so much faster than in the UK where they weigh every single item.
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Old 04.09.2015, 12:39
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

I just wanted to thank you all dearly, for taking the time to answer back, sharing with me your experience and giving me advice on how to handle this issue.
I just had an apologetic call from MIGROS, letting me know that the lady from the store had no right to treat me like that, they are trained to be polite to people especially to people who have forgotten 3-4 things,in a sum of 160francs, she said if I understood correctly that they can be unfriendly if someone has not beeped half of the things bought.
I really appreciate the call but I am not sure if I am going back to use this device again!!!!
I am sure my son doesn't want to go back there whatever I tell him...

Just wanted to thank you all once again, it really feels better when one can share and have a dialogue on these "weird" experiences!
Hope you all have a good day,
Eleni
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Old 04.09.2015, 12:43
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

Might be of interest:

Migros T&C regarding Subito

According to point 3, by agreeing to the T&C (which you do by using the services), you agree to being subjected to a spot check from time to time. People are randomly chosen for spot checks. Your purchases can be re-scanned in total or partly by the Migros personnel. You are required to pay the difference between your scanned items and the actual price of the items if you didn't scan all of them. If you are suspected of theft, you have to be able to prove your identity. You might lose permission to use the Subito services.

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I am sure my son doesn't want to go back there whatever I tell him...
Perhaps take him back in a week or so, just to let him purchase and scan 2-3 small items by himself, then playfully checking the receipt together while in store to make him feel safe with this again. If you want to buy other items during this outing, pay for them separately to make sure he has his very own positive experience with "his" items.
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Old 04.09.2015, 12:48
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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You might lose permission to use the Subito services.
How is that supposed to be implemented? You don't have to provide an ID to use the machine.

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Perhaps take him back in a week or so, just to let him purchase and scan 2-3 small items by himself, then playfully checking the receipt together while in store to make him feel safe with this again. If you want to buy other items during this outing, pay for them separately to make sure he has his very own positive experience with "his" items.
I like this idea. teaching him to cross-check the receipt with the stuff in the basket is a fun and learning activity for example if you read it out to him and he has to identify the item you are reading and make sure everything is accounted for. It also teaches him the value of accuracy.
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Old 04.09.2015, 12:49
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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How is that supposed to be implemented? You don't have to provide an ID to use the machine.
Ask Migros, not me...

Edit: Deducing from post #18 by greencelery, one can only be banned from using the handheld devices, but not the mini self-checkout desks. Which makes the threat to lose permission to use Subito services rather useless, as with the mini self-checkout desks, one can choose to scan the Cumulus card or not (I never do since I don't have one and it wastes time).

Last edited by glowjupiter; 04.09.2015 at 13:02.
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Old 04.09.2015, 12:50
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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How is that supposed to be implemented? You don't have to provide an ID to use the machine.
You need to scan your Cumulus card to use the machine, and the first time you did that you will have agreed to the Terms and Conditions. We also got a letter with the Ts&Cs a few days after we first used it.
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Old 04.09.2015, 12:52
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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You need to scan your Cumulus card to use the machine, and the first time you did that you will have agreed to the Terms and Conditions. We also got a letter with the Ts&Cs a few days after we first used it.
OK, I never used the ones in Migros. In Coop you definitely don't need to scan your Supercard.
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Old 04.09.2015, 12:53
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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You need to scan your Cumulus card to use the machine, and the first time you did that you will have agreed to the Terms and Conditions. We also got a letter with the Ts&Cs a few days after we first used it.
Huh, since when? I don't own a Cumulus card and have been using Subito for months, countless times in front of Migros employees with no problems whatsoever.
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Old 04.09.2015, 12:55
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

There are two systems. Scan while you shop and self scan at checkout. The first need a costumer loyalty card, the others are free for all.

Looks like OP use the first kind.
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Old 04.09.2015, 12:56
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

Maybe there's some confusion then between the hand held scanner, where you scan every item as you go around, where you do need to provide your Cumulus card, and the self service checkout, where you do not. Both are called Subito.
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Old 04.09.2015, 13:00
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Re: How Migros grocery store wants to become your superego!

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Yes and No - it's a paradigm thing.

From the OP's perspective she made a mistake and didn't scan the item - having used Subito a couple of times it takes time to dial the brain into doing so - a bit like moving from the UK and having to get used to weigh and pricing your own fruit and veg. Juggling the Subito between herself and her son may have raised the risk of items being missed - as well as potentially being distracted while scanning. (As Tom said even the "pros" make mistakes).

From the Company's perspective they have handed over a task that should be relatively simple - based on the fact that checkout assistants by definition are not the smartest cookies in the biscuit barrel (<awaits groans for that one>) and yet manage to scan thousands of items a day. They have trusted that the customer will not rip them off in the process. In order to prevent the latter they have to police the process and consider each person who attempts to take things without paying and someone who has done it deliberately. If they took a "soft" approach certain individuals could take advantage of this and deliberately make regular mistakes knowing they could get away with it. The resultant being that, in the long term, prices would rise because the shop would know it was receiving payment for only 80% of its goods.

I don't mind self scanning checkouts but Subito was a logic step to far for me first time out.
(Oh - and noone held a gun to my head and made me use it )
What you wrote has zero to do with how a Migros member of staff should treat a customer in this case. It's a woman with a kid who missed a couple of things, a staff member has no right to be so rude and the reply from Migros clearly backs that up.
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