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  #21  
Old 16.09.2015, 15:18
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Re: That excluded feeling

As the OP's location is Basel, it could actually be that the colleagues are speaking German while the OP thinks it is French.
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  #22  
Old 16.09.2015, 15:52
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Re: That excluded feeling

People can be damn rude. It really shows them for what they are, rude and stupid and disrespectful. And the Swiss can be some of the worst. Think they lord it over everything and everybody.

With my friends who i have known for decades we have a sort of thing. If we are speaking in English and there is a person there who doesn't understand - we switch to French. And vice versa. Or there is someone who translates from one language to another, to at least include the person in the conversation.

It can be arduous, especially in a heated conversation. But, it doesn't leave that person sitting like a pillock. Nodding like one of those dog things in the back of a car.

I would just ignore their total lack of politesse and go for lunch without them. Their loss.

And keep up with the French classes - and one day you can turn on them, with your perfect French!!! And tell them to F-off.

I spent a few months in Spain with my schoolgirl Spanish. The people went out of their way to include me and i left there with better Spanish and a love for my new found friends. And they were the ones with the conversation books. I told them i had three fiancs. Meaning three nephews!! But we all laughed at my faux pas. Especially with my boyfriend sitting beside me!!

Last edited by Patsycat; 16.09.2015 at 16:03.
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  #23  
Old 16.09.2015, 15:55
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Re: That excluded feeling

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And keep up with the French classes - and one day you can turn on them, with your perfect French!!! And tell them to F-off.
She's not going to learn how to say that in French classes...
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  #24  
Old 16.09.2015, 16:09
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Re: That excluded feeling

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She's not going to learn how to say that in French classes...
erm - google -

but...pshhht.
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  #25  
Old 16.09.2015, 16:11
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Re: That excluded feeling

Va chier connards
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  #26  
Old 16.09.2015, 16:25
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Re: That excluded feeling

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She's not going to learn how to say that in French classes...
She probably already knows that.
Most people know 'those' words without knowing much else in a language.

French people can be very rude and disrespectful. I agree with what the others have said, go out for lunch with your friends and show them that you actually don't give a toss about them.
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  #27  
Old 16.09.2015, 16:40
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Re: That excluded feeling

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As the OP's location is Basel, it could actually be that the colleagues are speaking German while the OP thinks it is French.
Yes, of course



Ha, luckily, all those common phrases like "F Off" I already know

To be honest, my French isnt too bad. Its a lot better than my colleagues realise. Like I said, I have to speak it every day but i need the time to think; translate what they have said and translate what I want to say.
So, usually the conversation has already moved forward or Im missing a sentence as I was still translating the last one.. Slowly but surely Im getting there

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  #28  
Old 16.09.2015, 17:08
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Re: That excluded feeling

Or, as I had pointed out in another thread, lack of empathy. It seems to be inherent in some people and not others.
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  #29  
Old 16.09.2015, 17:12
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Re: That excluded feeling

@Patsycat - The mindset you have is spot on.


I personally feel that people who are actually not even significant to you (random colleages at work).


ie: anybody outside of your inner friends circle.


isn't worth worrying about, I know it can be hard but changing our outlook on a situation makes it easier for you to deal with.


Its better to just be yourself, rather than try to fit around others, and we all know how difficult it can be here in Swiss (and also the keyboard warriors on the forum).
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  #30  
Old 16.09.2015, 17:13
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Re: That excluded feeling

But think of the sweet revenge when one of the said colleague will beg you one day to help with the translation of a very important e-mail to the CEO..."Mais il fallait mieux apprendre l'anglais quand tu en avais l'opportunit, mon cher...regarde, Mademoiselle Opportunit (point at your face), elle n'est plus l!"*. And right there you walk away with a triumphant smile on your face!


* Which translates roughly as: "but you should have learned to use better English while you had the opportunity, my dear...look at Miss Opportunity, she's gone!"
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  #31  
Old 16.09.2015, 20:35
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Re: That excluded feeling

@MrsSerendipity: your colleagues discussed whether or not to invite you. At least, that is what you understood them to be talking about, given that, as you say, “usually the conversation has already moved forward or I’m missing a sentence as I was still translating the last one”.

This is just a thought, which could perhaps be an alternative way of seeing things.
You write that your colleagues did invite you along.
And that it was you who said no.
And then they went to lunch without you.

Beforehand, your colleagues seemed to be discussing whether or not to invite you. That hurt. Could it be that, given your level of French, you might have misunderstood them or heard only part of their conversation? Could you perhaps have missed some prior sentence, before you tuned in to their conversation, perhaps one where someone was checking with another whether she needed to talk about her most personal matters and needed to be together in private, or whether an open and colleagial lunch would be okay?

I’m not saying that everything was alright in the situation, not at all, and your feelings are what they are. It just strikes me that they really did invite you to go with them. And that invitation is, in fact, – even if there were other words beforehand as they were trying to settle the details of the arrangement – an including and not an excluding gesture.
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  #32  
Old 16.09.2015, 20:47
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Re: That excluded feeling

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Welcome another troll.

You sound like a whiner anyway, so I would exclude you from any lunch arrangement as well.
...complaining happened in the complaints corner ...where of course you are not allowed to whine about things...shocking...
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  #33  
Old 16.09.2015, 21:14
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Re: That excluded feeling

there is a French guy in my office. no matter what he tries to say in English, I pretend not to be able to understand him. it's great sport, actually.

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  #34  
Old 17.09.2015, 10:40
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Re: That excluded feeling

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I spent a few months in Spain with my schoolgirl Spanish. The people went out of their way to include me and i left there with better Spanish and a love for my new found friends. And they were the ones with the conversation books. I told them i had three fiancs. Meaning three nephews!! But we all laughed at my faux pas. Especially with my boyfriend sitting beside me!!
While there probably are differences specific to a country, more often than not tourists are treated differently than immigrants. You know, many think immigrants steal jobs (unemployment rate in Spain was above 10% almost all of the last twenty years), while tourists typically have money, which does talk, etc. yaddayadda

And of course people tend to generalizing, which you seem to do, too.

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I tried not to be offended when they would switch to French, I thought it must be hard for them to have social conversations in English when they are usually all in French. I guessed it was a default reaction to switch back to French.. and I still believe this to be true for the most part…
Indeed. This is the standard reaction for everybody, at least in Europe, with a common mother tongue. Not to exclude somebody, but rather, because usually people are most comfortable using their mother tongue.

Things do get lost in translation. For instance, your colleagues may have checked if anybody already invited you to join the dinner already. IMHO you should address the issue directly, in english to avoid misunderstandings, preferably in a non-confrontational manner.

What keeps from doing that? You got nothing to lose!
And you might be in for a very pleasant surprise
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  #35  
Old 17.09.2015, 10:44
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Re: That excluded feeling

Losset mal, wer hat hunger? Wo gmme? Slle mr sie no iilade oder nd? Stinkt mir scho e chli, sie jammeret eh numme de ganze Ziit die FrauS.

Chumm, mr gnd gschiider allei. Xh mr s vo de Pizzeria am zwlfi?
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  #36  
Old 17.09.2015, 10:48
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Re: That excluded feeling

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Basel? French?
When I first arrived in Basel I didn't speak any German, but did have some French. I kind of assumed that being on the border with France, most people would be bilingual-ish. I went to a bar and inquired, in French, if they were still serving food. The lady at the bar then called over to her colleague and said, in English "Ere, Brenda, you speak French, can you serve this gentleman?"

It's ok, I said, I speak English.
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  #37  
Old 17.09.2015, 11:00
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Re: That excluded feeling

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Losset mal, wer hat hunger? Wo gmme? Slle mr sie no iilade oder nd? Stinkt mir scho e chli, sie jammeret eh numme de ganze Ziit die FrauS.

Chumm, mr gnd gschiider allei. Xh mr s vo de Pizzeria am zwlfi?
I should officiously ask to translate for others, but I am not entirely sure if it's worth it.

MrsSeren - feelings are one thing, being direct and spelling out you want to hang with others another. I think they might have been polite by not pushing themselves on you, I have been in situ like that, in a quite discrete culture. What comes to mind, though, it's usually a simple math - minority adjusts to majority, language wise too, so if 5 speak French and 1 English, I think people maybe expect you to either holler when you don't get something, or show that your level of French is ok to be included. There is a grace period, like a month or two when people will translate for you but after that the effort for social integration is expected to come from you. There are a lot of comfortable hermits around, or folks seaking social life outside of work, your colleagues might not know you really care. Courage.
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  #38  
Old 17.09.2015, 11:17
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Re: That excluded feeling

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: Losset mal, wer hat hunger? Wo gmme? Slle mr sie no iilade oder nd? Stinkt mir scho e chli, sie jammeret eh numme de ganze Ziit die FrauS.
Chumm, mr gnd gschiider allei. Xh mr s vo de Pizzeria am zwlfi?


Longbyt, very free translation:
-
Hey you lot, anybody hungry. Where shall we go? Should we invited 'her' too or not. Don't really fancy the idea. Mrs S - she just goes on and on the whole
time.
Come on, we'll be better off without her. Meet outside the Pizzeria at twelve?
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  #39  
Old 17.09.2015, 12:08
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Re: That excluded feeling

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Losset mal, wer hat hunger? Wo gmme? Slle mr sie no iilade oder nd? Stinkt mir scho e chli, sie jammeret eh numme de ganze Ziit die FrauS.

Chumm, mr gnd gschiider allei. Xh mr s vo de Pizzeria am zwlfi?
your French is flawless.
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  #40  
Old 17.09.2015, 12:23
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Re: That excluded feeling

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There is a grace period, like a month or two when people will translate for you but after that the effort for social integration is expected to come from you.
I've been in similar situations (though I've been asked if it's OK for them to speak French, so I was happy). Why should I be expected to learn French to work for an English speaking company in German speaking Switzerland?

As an aside, I've tended to find the French (in Basel) most flexible when it comes to speaking; they'll often switch between French, German and English (and occasionally Italian) depending on the least linguistic audience member.
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