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Old 16.09.2015, 13:53
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That excluded feeling

Need to vent. Feeling really excluded since I returned to work.

So, I work in a Swiss company with mostly French colleagues. The language of the company and the industry is English.
Im sure this comes up on EF time and time again but my lack of language skills often leaves me feeling very excluded.

(Yes, I realise the exclusion is my own doing)

Right now, Im in the middle of my 3rd round of French lessons. So I am learning and trying. My understanding has improved 10 fold in the last year. . . but Im not at a level to understand all the conversations or to engage fully

I tried not to be offended when they would switch to French, I thought it must be hard for them to have social conversations in English when they are usually all in French. I guessed it was a default reaction to switch back to French.. and I still believe this to be true for the most part

However, today, one person deliberately switched to French so they could exclude me from the conversation. They were planning a meal out and were checking with each other in French if they should include me IN FRONT OF ME.


I have a hundred examples of this kind of exclusion but that one happened 30 minutes ago and of course, it bothered me Hence why Im posting.
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Old 16.09.2015, 13:56
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Re: That excluded feeling

Welcome another troll.

You sound like a whiner anyway, so I would exclude you from any lunch arrangement as well.
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Old 16.09.2015, 13:59
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Re: That excluded feeling

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Welcome another troll.

You sound like a whiner anyway, so I would exclude you from any lunch arrangement as well.
Commonly known as Australian
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Old 16.09.2015, 13:59
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Re: That excluded feeling

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However, today, one person deliberately switched to French so they could exclude me from the conversation. They were planning a meal out and were checking with each other in French if they should include me IN FRONT OF ME. [/FONT]
Ouch

.... if they are like that do you really want to go?

.... you should have said something like (my French is bad) "Vouz savez, je comprends un peu franais!!"
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:00
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Re: That excluded feeling

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Welcome another troll.

You sound like a whiner anyway, so I would exclude you from any lunch arrangement as well.


I must be the worlds most boring troll then!
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:05
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Re: That excluded feeling

Basel? French?
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:05
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Re: That excluded feeling

Over to you Oscar

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Old 16.09.2015, 14:08
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Re: That excluded feeling

I said No to the invite.
Prefer not to be invited for the sake of an invite.

Also conscious of the fact that my presence forces people to speak English. Not exactly relaxing for them either.
Im sure it probably feels like more work.
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:09
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Re: That excluded feeling

Bollocks to them. Bollocks to them all. You're at work to work, not socialise, but if you do deign to socialise with the miserable bastards, you do it on your terms.


Ignore them where possible, avoid them, stick to work topics, refuse to discuss your weekend or dinner plans or anything else with them. Be polite, but be strong. If they later decide that they want to be your friend, continue to treat them in exactly the same way.


You don't need twats like this in your life. Sure, you have to share an office with them, but that's all. They're nothing to you. Treat them as you'd treat the person who sits next to you on the bus.


Enjoy! (you should!)
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:10
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Re: That excluded feeling

ive noticed in a few companies that the french (the less international type) tend to only want to talk to each other and of course only in french, despite them being the minority in the company. They dont like to talk in English anyway.
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:10
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Basel? French?
Yes, french

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Bollocks to them. Bollocks to them all. You're at work to work, not socialise, but if you do deign to socialise with the miserable bastards, you do it on your terms.


Ignore them where possible, avoid them, stick to work topics, refuse to discuss your weekend or dinner plans or anything else with them. Be polite, but be strong. If they later decide that they want to be your friend, continue to treat them in exactly the same way.


You don't need twats like this in your life. Sure, you have to share an office with them, but that's all. They're nothing to you. Treat them as you'd treat the person who sits next to you on the bus.


Enjoy! (you should!)

Thank you DB, that is exactly what i needed to hear. TBH, i dont need any more friends and my view on work is that it is just that: work.
Tomorrow, think il go out and meet a friend for lunch. Change of sceen is always good.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 16.09.2015 at 20:48. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:15
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Re: That excluded feeling

I'm sure it's hurtful to experience that. Don't have any suggestions besides trying to use your lunch time to see people you actually enjoy spending time with. Maybe someone from another department or friends working nearby?
I'm sorry members here have called you a troll. As I've already said to another member, unfortunately this forum isn't always supportive and new members tend to get scared away. I hope you stick around. There are lots of kind members here. Wishing you well.

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Need to vent. Feeling really excluded since I returned to work.

So, I work in a Swiss company with mostly French colleagues. The language of the company and the industry is English.
I’m sure this comes up on EF time and time again but my lack of language skills often leaves me feeling very excluded.

(Yes, I realise the exclusion is my own doing)

Right now, I’m in the middle of my 3rd round of French lessons. So I am learning and trying. My understanding has improved 10 fold in the last year. . . but I’m not at a level to understand all the conversations or to engage fully

I tried not to be offended when they would switch to French, I thought it must be hard for them to have social conversations in English when they are usually all in French. I guessed it was a default reaction to switch back to French.. and I still believe this to be true for the most part…

However, today, one person deliberately switched to French so they could exclude me from the conversation. They were planning a meal out and were checking with each other in French if they should include me… IN FRONT OF ME.


I have a hundred examples of this kind of exclusion but that one happened 30 minutes ago and of course, it bothered me… Hence why I’m posting.
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  #13  
Old 16.09.2015, 14:22
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Re: That excluded feeling

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Thank you DB, that is exactly what i needed to hear. TBH, i dont need any more friends and my view on work is that it is just that: work.
Tomorrow, think il go out and meet a friend for lunch. Change of sceen is always good.
Perhaps setting up lunch twice or three times a week with friends would be a good idea. That way you can stay in contact with your friends, get a breather from work and also have company while eating.
Also, your colleagues will surely notice that you don't hang around miserably because they deigned not to invite you, and even if that might annoy them, it shows them that you're a confident lass.

Remain polite and civil at work, go to lunch with whoever you please, and know that it is better to voluntarily spend time with those you cherish, giving you a new "push" for the later work hours, than it is to forcibly go out with people who don't want you around anyway, and return to work annoyed that you'll now have to spend the rest of the day with them as well.

Stay cordial with colleagues, but turn lunch into "your" thing and enjoy it.
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:25
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Re: That excluded feeling

I shouldn't need to, but I can vouch for the OP. Knowing them as a person, and having first-hand knowledge of the company, it's a pretty believable scenario.

And sure, there are several companies in Basel with a high proportion of French employees.
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:29
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Re: That excluded feeling

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I shouldn't need to, but I can vouch for the OP. Knowing them as a person, and having first-hand knowledge of the company, it's a pretty believable scenario.

And sure, there are several companies in Basel with a high proportion of French employees.
Perhaps you need to invite her for lunch
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:33
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Re: That excluded feeling

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Basel? French?
It's almost like it is on the border with France or something. Crazy talk.
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:39
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Re: That excluded feeling

Can you not see it as an opportunity to improve your French? Sure, lessons are great, but conversational skills will come along leaps and bounds if you're in situations where you're forced to use the language.

Disclaimer: it took me several years of working in a French-speaking office to become totally comfortable with French in all situations. Even today I just switch off if the conversation turns to something I have no interest in. Quite often this is cheese.
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Old 16.09.2015, 14:54
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Re: That excluded feeling

Thank you for vouching for me Mirfield ..


Probably a good time to point out that i have no access to my original account so had to create a new one
After my little vent though, its probably best I dont give my Original user name just yet lol


@hairybadger - French is coming along really well. m learning everyday which is great. Im in situations where im forced to speak however, with said colleagues, im not really given the oppertunity to join in.. but I have asked for a new word every couple days. SO, least I will make some effort with them


@lorena1 - In the many years Ive been part of this forum that has always been an issue. Such a shame. However, free speech is everyones rights and you cant police some one (to a certain degree) for being a meanie!
Forum is worth it if you stick it out.
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Old 16.09.2015, 15:00
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Re: That excluded feeling

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@hairybadger - French is coming along really well. m learning everyday which is great. Im in situations where im forced to speak however, with said colleagues, im not really given the oppertunity to join in.. but I have asked for a new word every couple days. SO, least I will make some effort with them
I know what you mean - when you're still getting used to the language in the time it takes to decipher the meaning of a sentence 9 other people have jumped in and the converation has moved on.... Perserverance! I have no shame in saying "I didn't quite understand that - can somebody explain the joke/item of vocabulary to me?" In cases where the joke is *me* or (more commonly) where I come from, I have strategies for dealing with that - "hmmm can't quite remember, what's the French word for 'collaboration'?" for example works a treat
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Old 16.09.2015, 15:16
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Re: That excluded feeling

I know that feeling too. When I first came here, I thought my husbands colleagues didn't speak English. It was only months later when my dad came on holiday that they spoke to him in English! Their attitude to me was you're here so you'd better learn our language.I then realised they had done it on purpose & felt very annoyed as I had been excluded intentionally from conversations.
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