Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06.10.2015, 00:49
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 74
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 39 Times in 15 Posts
luya has become a little unpopular
Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

And when you hire a lawyer, you have to be lucky too. Ours was a waste of energy

We have problem with our constructor. We bought an apartment two years ago that was being built. There are missing things that we agreed on paper but he still refuses it.
Legal insurance doesn't cover building related things. We feel like stuck. Can anyone give advice?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06.10.2015, 01:29
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,458
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,231 Times in 1,225 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Well, it all depends on what you agreed upon.
Did you consult with a lawyer when you prepared the paper-work, the contract?

There are "consultants" who will check your contract before you sign it and propose changes that the general contractor ("GU") cannot weasel-out of.
At least not easily.

It's a service that comes with a fee, of course.

The problem is that probably, on paper, the contractor has fulfilled his side of the contract. So, even if you go to court, he might actually win.
In any case, he will usually take the decision to the next highest court.

If you have enough money (and time) you might be able to win in court (which is usually a settlement with a gag-order, which will probably involve a split of the legal bill, which will gain you exactly...nothing).

At some point, it comes down to deciding between devoting your life to a law-suite with an unknown outcome - or having the stuff fixed at your own expense but be done with it and get on with your life.

Of course, this is declaring defeat - and the contractor is counting on this.

And it depends on just how much money we're talking about.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 06.10.2015, 09:54
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,086
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,121 Times in 511 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Consumer protection in the building industry is almost non existent and not covered by law insurance as stated above as we found out when we had a problem which ended up in court. Our lawyer who was well versed in this field and had recently attended a European convention on this stated he was amazed looking at laws elsewhere how little protection or comeback was offered here. The premise of these laws goes back a long time where home ownership was mostly by corporations or wealthy families and the poor handworker need protection from these rich bullies. Fast forward to today and these laws have not been updated to reflect home ownership trends and it is now developers who can exploit these laws at the cost of owners.


My wife has friends (a couple) who are both lawyers so when they bought off the plan they went through the contract with a fine toothed comb and had some things changed. Upon handover a lot of the materials and finishes had been downgraded, they looked at fighting it but between protection and fine print in the fine print realized they could not win, so took it on the chin. These are not silly people but still got caught so buying off plan is always fraught with disaster.


I do not know anyone who has bought off plan and not had the final price increased or not needed rework to get some things remedied. It is only going to get worse with apartment prices flat lining or falling so the developer needs to discount to sell, he wants his margin so he will cut every corner he can or you pay. If you do buy off plan the first thing you need to be well versed in is how to register a problem, everything minor fault must be documented immediately (there are time limits from identifying a fault and reporting it) and sent by registered letter, there are easy get out clauses when the fault or problem is not documented properly. Normally this happens when the developer (or his agent) tries to assure you it will all be fixed by handover and keeps things verbal, after every meeting summarize what you agreed upon and send a letter to confirm.


Another example, we had a parquet floor laid years ago and a couple of weeks later some boards were separating from a manufacturing fault. The supplier inspected the floor and agreed on the fault but said we need to let the floor adjust for a year so if any more problems arise they will replace the floor, the installer (a cousin) and ourselves agreed to this as the product had a 10 year warranty. So 12 months and 3 more faulty boards later we begin the conversation again only to hear "it is out of warranty and not our problem" WTF, in Switzerland warranty on parquet floors in a renovation situation is 12 months which overrides any other considerations. So good move to get us to wait 12 months so we are faced with suing a cousin who got caught out as well or living with it.


The only real way out in these situations is trying to negotiate a settlement knowing the law is not on your side.
Reply With Quote
The following 14 users would like to thank RTN for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 06.10.2015, 09:58
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 1,158
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,310 Times in 596 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

If you genuinely believe they are being dishonest, and you no longer need anything critical from them, you can go the route of writing to Beobachter, writing to your local gemeinde building control department (particularly if there's anything even vaguely related to safety, insulation, electrics etc), and any trade associations they may be a member of.

But decide clearly where the point of no gain is - then you can walk away without wasting time on stress once you've caused them enough hassle to feel vindicated but if you're getting nowhere.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 06.10.2015, 11:32
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,458
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,231 Times in 1,225 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post

My wife has friends (a couple) who are both lawyers so when they bought off the plan they went through the contract with a fine toothed comb and had some things changed. Upon handover a lot of the materials and finishes had been downgraded,
The problem is that on handover, it's too late. Way too late.
Ideally, you or a representative would be on-hand during "critical phases" of the build to supervise the workers.
Because a house consists of hundreds of thousand of parts, a hundred thousand things can go wrong.
Stuff like the bending-angle of the tubing of the underfloor-heating, or how the the windows are fitted or whatever.
A lot of stuff is next to unfixable, once it's been set in stone (said underfloor heating being among these).

Buying property is a very emotional thing and given the right salesman, people often put down their guards - with hundreds of thousand of borrowed money on the line.

People should be aware of the fact that all the contractors building their house/flat are not really working for them - they're working to their own advantage. If there's a corner to cut, they'll cut it. Because if they don't, somebody else with a cheaper offer will cut them out of the deal this time or next.

The only guy working for you is the one you specifically task with watching over all the others.

If something isn't what was agreed to on paper, insist (registered letter!) on it getting fixed now and don't pay a single CHF before it has been fixed.
If, at handover, you've paid the full price but still have a list of issues - chances are you're screwed.
Another problem is general contractors not paying their contractors. That's a really bad one, because these contractors often turn to the customer for payment - even though he has paid already...

Word does travel, though. Especially these days.
And general contractors known for screwing their customers are finding it much harder to acquire marks^Wcustomers these days and will be the first ones to go under once the boom ends.

So, buying a used property (with a proper inspection...) has its appeal...

Last edited by rainer_d; 06.10.2015 at 11:56.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 06.10.2015, 11:41
Mica's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 606
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 745 Times in 330 Posts
Mica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

I wouldn't quite frame building or buying a house as a "consumer-related" purchase...
... in any event there are special insurances for exactly such cases e.g. https://www.zurich.ch/de/privat/wohn...versicherungen
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Mica for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 06.10.2015, 11:44
Mica's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 606
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 745 Times in 330 Posts
Mica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
The only guy working for you is the one you specifically task with watching over all the others.
Fully agree. Google "Baubegleitung" to get an idea of the services provided.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Mica for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 06.10.2015, 12:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 7,615
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 15,924 Times in 5,232 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
Fast forward to today and these laws have not been updated to reflect home ownership trends and it is now developers who can exploit these laws at the cost of owners.
Hence the term 'building mafia'.

11 years on, I feel my renovation project-induced ulcer flare up when I even think about getting involved again with anyone in the building trades. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been for a new build.

Forget the myth of Swiss honesty. Building in Switzerland means getting screwed. Start from that premise. You can't catch all the dirty tricks, but if you keep your eyes on the ball and spot half of them in time you are far ahead of the game.

I hope you can find some resolution, Luya - but I suspect in the end you'll do as many of us have: Move on, enjoy the good things life in Switzerland has to offer. There isn't much else you can do.

(Other than become a lawyer, architect, plumber, electrician, roofer, tiler, carpenter yourself... if there is a next time. )
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 06.10.2015, 12:33
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,717
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,029 Times in 6,254 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
Hence the term 'building mafia'.

11 years on, I feel my renovation project-induced ulcer flare up when I even think about getting involved again with anyone in the building trades. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been for a new build.

Forget the myth of Swiss honesty. Building in Switzerland means getting screwed. Start from that premise. You can't catch all the dirty tricks, but if you keep your eyes on the ball and spot half of them in time you are far ahead of the game.

I hope you can find some resolution, Luya - but I suspect in the end you'll do as many of us have: Move on, enjoy the good things life in Switzerland has to offer. There isn't much else you can do.

(Other than become a lawyer, architect, plumber, electrician, roofer, tiler, carpenter yourself... if there is a next time. )
I know people who bought expensive new build apartments in Verbier & were amazed how good the work was with minimum snagging issues. Far better than multi million pound renovations in London.

Personally I looked into building a house about 12 years ago in CH & realised it was a very bad idea, certainly at the 2000m2 land 200m2 budget.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06.10.2015, 13:05
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,049
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,167 Times in 5,749 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
People should be aware of the fact that all the contractors building their house/flat are not really working for them - they're working to their own advantage. If there's a corner to cut, they'll cut it. Because if they don't, somebody else with a cheaper offer will cut them out of the deal this time or next.
We certainly found this to be true but not with all contractors.

We found that the small, independent businesses who relied on good reputation to build up a customer base did an absolutely amazing job with a great conscience. We would use these again without question.

The bigger firms or more general contractors made a lot of stupid mistakes and then to make matters worse, tried to deny the faults until they were metaphorically grabbed by the collar and forced to see that they had screwed up.

I'm not sure this is particular to Switzerland though.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 06.10.2015, 13:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 7,615
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 15,924 Times in 5,232 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
I'm not sure this is particular to Switzerland though.
I would hazard a guess that one will find dubious developers and construction cowboys everywhere.

What does seem to be particular to Switzerland (in comparison to other countries where I have built/renovated) is lack of consumer protection, that when it comes to redress for shoddy work, laws - or perhaps more accurately how the law is put into practice - seems to be heavily biased against the homeowner.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 06.10.2015, 14:23
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,049
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,167 Times in 5,749 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
I would hazard a guess that one will find dubious developers and construction cowboys everywhere.

What does seem to be particular to Switzerland (in comparison to other countries where I have built/renovated) is lack of consumer protection, that when it comes to redress for shoddy work, laws - or perhaps more accurately how the law is put into practice - seems to be heavily biased against the homeowner.

When our main builder 'forgot' to pay a bill for two years and in the meantime declared bankruptcy due to a falling out, we were left having to pay a bill for several thousand to the Gemeinde which we had paid once already to the building contractor).
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 06.10.2015, 14:57
xynth's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 753
Groaned at 37 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,681 Times in 503 Posts
xynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

The problem with the advice: "just accept it, there's nothing you can do" is that it is:

a) Unhelpful, because there might be something to do actually.
b) The reason for the status quo is because honest people let spineless bastards get away with these shenanigans.

Seriously. By letting them get away with it, you are actively contributing to the issue. They know that people will shut up and pay, so they do it. They try to fleece you in the first place because it pays off in the long term. If more people put up a fight, it will pay off much less going forward.

It's blindingly obvious case of tragedy of the commons...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank xynth for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 06.10.2015, 16:57
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Biel
Posts: 787
Groaned at 35 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 714 Times in 362 Posts
glinaa has an excellent reputationglinaa has an excellent reputationglinaa has an excellent reputationglinaa has an excellent reputation
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
Hence the term 'building mafia'.

11 years on, I feel my renovation project-induced ulcer flare up when I even think about getting involved again with anyone in the building trades. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been for a new build.
My apartment is under construction as we speak. Two months to go before we move in, so almost finished.


Before we signed the agreement, we asked about approximate costs of some changes to the project as there were some parts of the design obviously not to our liking. The costs quoted seemed reasonable so we went for it and signed. Soon it occurred that the head of construction had only his own costs in mind, not including the plumber, electrician, plasterer, carpenter and whoever. As is easy to imagine, the costs skyrocketed so in the end we had to make lots of compromise.


Some things were badly designed seemingly on purpose in order to extract money out of buyers. Things like two showers instead of a shower and a bath or 1 toilet in 4.5 or 5.5 room family-oriented apartments. Literally everyone made changes and guess what - it turns out the plumber and head of construction are neighbors and very good friends.


Then we had the choice of fittings for kitchens, bathrooms, tiling, floors etc. The developer was very careful to make sure we do not get to know the costs of the standard design and any elements of our choice. We were only allowed to know the total additional costs, so in turn we requested dozens of quotations with single elements added and removed. This drove our head of constructions nuts, but he had to comply. In the end we got what we wanted and for the price we were able to afford.

A tip for anyone building from plan: remove everything what you can easily buy and mount yourself - that would include towel hangers, mirrors, trash bin, bottle and cutlery sorters or even kitchen appliances (we had to put up quite a fight to do this, but succeeded). These elements can be bought on the open market for 1/3 or in some cases 1/10 the price. We used up the savings to upgrade other things.


Small surprises keep on showing up. Recently we were informed that we will have to pay extra if we want ceramic plate fillings in colors other than gray. Luckily, it's all almost finished.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank glinaa for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 06.10.2015, 17:04
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,086
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,121 Times in 511 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
My apartment is under construction as we speak. Two months to go before we move in, so almost finished.


Before we signed the agreement, we asked about approximate costs of some changes to the project as there were some parts of the design obviously not to our liking. The costs quoted seemed reasonable so we went for it and signed. Soon it occurred that the head of construction had only his own costs in mind, not including the plumber, electrician, plasterer, carpenter and whoever. As is easy to imagine, the costs skyrocketed so in the end we had to make lots of compromise.


Some things were badly designed seemingly on purpose in order to extract money out of buyers. Things like two showers instead of a shower and a bath or 1 toilet in 4.5 or 5.5 room family-oriented apartments. Literally everyone made changes and guess what - it turns out the plumber and head of construction are neighbors and very good friends.


Then we had the choice of fittings for kitchens, bathrooms, tiling, floors etc. The developer was very careful to make sure we do not get to know the costs of the standard design and any elements of our choice. We were only allowed to know the total additional costs, so in turn we requested dozens of quotations with single elements added and removed. This drove our head of constructions nuts, but he had to comply. In the end we got what we wanted and for the price we were able to afford.

A tip for anyone building from plan: remove everything what you can easily buy and mount yourself - that would include towel hangers, mirrors, trash bin, bottle and cutlery sorters or even kitchen appliances (we had to put up quite a fight to do this, but succeeded). These elements can be bought on the open market for 1/3 or in some cases 1/10 the price. We used up the savings to upgrade other things.


Small surprises keep on showing up. Recently we were informed that we will have to pay extra if we want ceramic plate fillings in colors other than gray. Luckily, it's all almost finished.

I posted this elsewhere but do not sign a contract off plan without having detailed fitout costs and allowances, it is actually a good point of negotiation if they won't budge on price to get them increased. What is generally shown in mock ups is not in the budget "just possibilities!!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank RTN for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 06.10.2015, 17:08
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,086
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,121 Times in 511 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
The problem with the advice: "just accept it, there's nothing you can do" is that it is:

a) Unhelpful, because there might be something to do actually.
b) The reason for the status quo is because honest people let spineless bastards get away with these shenanigans.

Seriously. By letting them get away with it, you are actively contributing to the issue. They know that people will shut up and pay, so they do it. They try to fleece you in the first place because it pays off in the long term. If more people put up a fight, it will pay off much less going forward.

It's blindingly obvious case of tragedy of the commons...

I don't think we here are saying give up without a fight, just make sure it is a fight you can win and not be too much out of pocket.


Registered letters and betribungs normally get them to the table to talk.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank RTN for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 06.10.2015, 17:30
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Biel
Posts: 787
Groaned at 35 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 714 Times in 362 Posts
glinaa has an excellent reputationglinaa has an excellent reputationglinaa has an excellent reputationglinaa has an excellent reputation
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
I posted this elsewhere but do not sign a contract off plan without having detailed fitout costs and allowances, it is actually a good point of negotiation if they won't budge on price to get them increased. What is generally shown in mock ups is not in the budget "just possibilities!!
Sure thing, but the truth is you only get to know how much things costs after you build your first house/apartment. Prices may even seem realistic at first and it's impossible to check everything.

Truth be told it's not the cost of kitchens or bathrooms that surprised us, but the costs of doing changes to the plumbing and electrical installations over the standard design. Things may be different if you are building a house and all the installations are designed and made just for you, but in our case the standard was already provided.

In any case, expect to have everything in mix of white, grey and cement and you wont be disappointed with the plan .
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank glinaa for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 06.10.2015, 20:44
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,458
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,231 Times in 1,225 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
The problem with the advice: "just accept it, there's nothing you can do" is that it is:

a) Unhelpful, because there might be something to do actually.
b) The reason for the status quo is because honest people let spineless bastards get away with these shenanigans.

Seriously. By letting them get away with it, you are actively contributing to the issue. They know that people will shut up and pay, so they do it. They try to fleece you in the first place because it pays off in the long term. If more people put up a fight, it will pay off much less going forward.

It's blindingly obvious case of tragedy of the commons...
True - but do you have an idea just how much money (out of your own pocket) you need to put forward before it actually goes to court?
Forum member "ConnorMac" once posted documents (on a different site) about him and the other owners of apartments in the building trying to sue the contractor (they had to be removed, for obvious reasons).
Post modified by legal request of Lerch & Partner AG

There are still apartments available in the new project they started to build there 2013-ish (mentioned in my posting there).
As I said: word does travel.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12.10.2015, 23:09
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 74
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 39 Times in 15 Posts
luya has become a little unpopular
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
I don't think we here are saying give up without a fight, just make sure it is a fight you can win and not be too much out of pocket.


Registered letters and betribungs normally get them to the table to talk.
Would you please elaborate betreibung?
Reply With Quote
This user groans at luya for this post:
  #20  
Old 13.10.2015, 08:48
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,783
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,381 Times in 6,645 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumers are not protected unless they pay for a lawyer..?

Quote:
View Post
Would you please elaborate betreibung?
No - use the feckin' search function - its not that difficult.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
construction, consumer rights, home, lawyer, legal




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Not Europe, Brits divided. And they are outside of decision making. Europe is united kashif International affairs/politics 97 06.01.2012 11:59
Who says hospitals in Zurich are the best because they are not Rina Complaints corner 63 30.03.2011 11:28
Do NOT drive thru Wettingen unless by bike & wearing losts of safety gear! Rangatiranui Transportation/driving 1 12.07.2009 03:19


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0