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Old 22.10.2015, 16:40
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Huge Doctor rechnung [bill]

Hi All,

I just received at home a rechnung [bill] from my krakenkasse [insurance company] regarding a visit to my gynecologist for a gynecological check (the annual) two months ago. There are no explanations in the rechnung just the concept "gynecological check" with CHF 291. In my opinion the amount is quite a lot, something insane. I was there for 15-20 mins with the doctor and that's it.

Is it normal?

ON the other hand, I went to the specialist's at the hospital some months ago for another topic and I received a rechnung for CHF 450 after 20 mins discussing with the doctor(no more visits, no medication, nothing else). I still thinking this is insane in Switzerland or they are trying to cheat me everywhere "blowing" the rechnungs with stupid things.

Any clue would be really appreciated.

Cheers,

Last edited by 3Wishes; 24.10.2015 at 22:54. Reason: removed name for privacy reasons
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Old 22.10.2015, 16:43
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

It usually takes them less then a minute to realize you're a "dumb foreigner" - you then get charged 50chf for that to be added to your medical records. Once it is on there is a pain to get rid of, but the biggest problem is that when bills are generated all numbers are doubled.

Its a real bitch but at least its not the US.

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Old 22.10.2015, 16:51
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

Your 291 bill sounds in line with a normal gynecological check. Did you have a smear test done, an ultrasound, etc? Was a blood test done? All these will add to the bill.

Generally a doctor's fees are regulated - a certain number of 'tax points' for the type of service. What is not regulated is the time spent.

If you have not yet reached your franchise you will pay the bill yourself, which sounds like what happened since the KK sent you the bill.

My latest routine gynecological appointment - which included all of the above - was more expensive than your bill, if that gives you a data point.

If you wish to question the charges ask your insurance company for a detailed copy of the bill if you did not receive one from your Gynocologist. A detailed copy will show how the bill was broken out. (The reason to ask your insurance company is that you avoid a fee from the Praxis. In my canton medical bills go directly to the insurer, a patient can ask for a copy but there is often a fee for that. Your canton may have different rules/practices, though.)
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Old 22.10.2015, 16:52
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So I was right, these ***** are just trying to take my money. I will ask for the details and for the next time, I will only accept what I really think is necessary.

Anyway, Can I check or ask somewhere the rates before to receive a medication, prescription or anything else?

Thanks a lot

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Your 291 bill sounds in line with a normal gynecological check. Did you have a smear test done, an ultrasound, etc? Was a blood test done? All these will add to the bill.

Generally a doctor's fees are regulated - a certain number of 'tax points' for the type of service. What is not regulated is the time spent.

If you have not yet reached your franchise you will pay the bill yourself, which sounds like what happened since the KK sent you the bill.

My latest routine gynecological appointment - which included all of the above - was more expensive than your bill, if that gives you a data point.

If you wish to question the charges ask your insurance company for a detailed copy of the bill if you did not receive one from your Gynocologist. A detailed copy will show how the bill was broken out. (The reason to ask your insurance company is that you avoid a fee from the Praxis. In my canton medical bills go directly to the insurer, a patient can ask for a copy but there is often a fee for that. Your canton may have different rules/practices, though.)
Thank you Meloncollie for your answer. The doctor just made a smear test, no blood sample or anything else. I understood when reading my contract with the KK that a normal gynecological check is included every 3 years "out of pocket" so no franchise is applied, but I was wrong. Btw, I've already asked my KK to send me the whole list of details, lets see what they answer...

Last edited by 3Wishes; 22.10.2015 at 20:47. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 22.10.2015, 17:03
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

Sounds more or less normal for a doctor to me.

If you have any special tests done you'll be north of 400 before you can say Krankenkasse.
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Old 22.10.2015, 17:04
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

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So I was right, these ***** are just trying to take my money.
I would caution you about statements like these. As above, your bills sounds like what one would expect for a routine gyne appointment.


I have found over the years that the way to get things done here is not to go in guns-a-blazin' but rather to approach it from the standpoint of trying to clarify and seek solutions together. "Could you help me understand my bill?" will likely get you a better result than "these ***** are just trying to take my money."

Rule number 17 in the Life In Switzerland book: The person who has the ability to help you might not feel disposed to do so when backed into a corner.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 24.10.2015 at 23:29. Reason: changed name in quoted text, removed name from post
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Old 22.10.2015, 17:11
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

That's clear Melloncolie, I'm just explaining here how I feel...I didn't take this way to submit my questions to the KK. They kindly answer me that I have to pay till I reach the franchise and the 10% up to CHF 700 later, so lets see what is the answer regarding sending the invoice details from the praxis [doctor's practice].

Thanks again, but I feel like -someone else mentioned before- a dumb foreign.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 22.10.2015 at 21:30. Reason: added English translation
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Old 22.10.2015, 17:21
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

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The doctor just made a smear test, no blood sample or anything else.
You seem to mean the doctor even made a smear test, right?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 24.10.2015 at 22:54. Reason: changed name in quoted text
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Old 22.10.2015, 17:26
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

A friend asked me what my bills are like for my sons regular visits with his doctor (this includes the vaccines)... She was considering bringing her baby to Basel.


I told her CHF 100 or so (I dont check really, I send them all to the insurance company and they pay)


Now, as we are switching to LEMAL I have a small window where I have to pay his bill.. Turns out, it costs around CHF240 per visit!!!


My 4 minute phone call to the doc cost CHF 35-45
(Son was unwell, needed her advice)


However, i am very happy with her service so shant complain
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Old 22.10.2015, 17:27
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

Hi ,

Theoretically, your gynecological test will be paid by the medical insurance every 3 years, no matter if you reached the franchise or not. This does not mean that the visit will be covered 100%, though, as some exams might not be included in the regular check up and will need to be paid by you.

HOWEVER

Something to take into consideration: when is your insurance covering for the first time? When I got medical insurance when I moved to Switzerland, it was specifically writen on the contract that yes, they cover every 3rd year, but that the first year I am with them will not be covered. Meaning, only when I have proven my "loyalty" and stay with them at least 2 years, will they let me charge the visit on them. This might be the problem.

The 290 CHF does look like a normal price, though. Going to a doctor in Switzerland can be expensive. There are some good things too, though.
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Old 22.10.2015, 17:32
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

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That's clear Melloncolie, I'm just explaining here how I feel...I didn't take this way to submit my questions to the KK. They kindly answer me that I have to pay till I reach the franchise and the 10% up to CHF 700 later, so lets see what is the answer regarding sending the invoice details from the praxis.

Thanks again, but I feel like -someone else mentioned before- a dumb foreign.
You only read dumb foreigner. How much do you make an hour as opposed to, where ever you come from? Now, how much does a doctor make where you come from, and up that by what you are upped being here. Simples.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 24.10.2015 at 22:55. Reason: changed name in quoted text
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Old 22.10.2015, 18:03
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

The last time I visited a gynecologist here, I paid CHF 600+ (for consultation, untrasound, smear and blood tests). A visit to GP usually costs me ~CHF 65. So, I think your bill was normal.
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Old 22.10.2015, 18:19
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

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So I was right, these ***** are just trying to take my money.
Great idea, then we can have another thread " I've got cervical cancer or whatever and can i sue the doc as he didn't do his work properly"

You cannot have your cake and eat it, the doc has to do what he thinks is necessary in ordser to protect himself.

If you don't agree, sugest you fine another doc quickly

Last edited by 3Wishes; 24.10.2015 at 22:55. Reason: changed name in quoted text
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Old 22.10.2015, 18:25
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

Once I visited doctor for blood related tests but doc sent bill for many tests including some requiring urine or stool samples which I did not even give. After lot of arguments doctor agreed to remove 2-3 tests from the bill but still there were many which I did not ask for.

I never visited that doctor again. I wasted lot of time fighting with doctor, insurance etc. Definitely not worth the money which I saved.

My advise is if you feel your bills are unreasonable move to another doctor.
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Old 22.10.2015, 18:27
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

OP,

Depending on which field of medicine your doctor specializes in, they charge different amounts per number of minutes treated/type of treatment given. They have to base their charges on the TARMED (Tarmed, is it just a rip off?), which all doctors have to adhere to.

If you think you're being unjustly charged, take it up with your doctor and your health ins urance company.
You can also request that your doctor handles payments by using tiers payant rather than tiers garant. He doesn't have to do this, but if he did, the consequences would be as detailed in the following quote.

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Tiers garant:
You can send every bill you receive to Assura at any time after paying the doctor/pharmacy for treatment or meds and wait for the refund minus your deductible/retention fee.

OR

Tiers payant:
You can have your doctor send bills to Assura rather than to you so that Assura pay the doc directly and then bill you if you need to pay part of your retention fee or deductible.
If you don't want to pay for your meds at the pharmacy and send the bill to Assura, you can ask your pharmacist to deal with Assura directly (even though Assura says they deal with meds by tiers garant, they have to accept tiers payant for meds/pharmacists (since that's stipulated in health insurance law).

With tiers payant, once you've paid your e.g. CHF 1200/year (e.g. 500 deductible, 700 (yearly upper limit) retention fee) you won't have to pay any more bills aside from your premiums.
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Old 22.10.2015, 18:49
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

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Hi All,

There are no explanations in the rechnung just the concept "gynecological check" with CHF 291. In my opinion the amount is quite a lot, something insane. I was there for 15-20 mins with the doctor and that's it.

Is it normal?
Totally normal. My last check up was CHF 350 and I was there for about 20-30 mins.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 24.10.2015 at 22:56. Reason: changed name in quoted text
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Old 22.10.2015, 19:02
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

Yeah, mine run around chf 300 for a typical gyn exam, and about 300 for a breast exam/ultrasound. Haven't gotten my bill yet from the gyn so I don't know this year.

Not sure where you're from, but this is pretty standard, and consistent with gyne exams that I've had in the US.


You may get a separate bill for pap smear pathology too - I don't think it was more than chf 30.

I know everyone has a different perspective based on their own experience, but I've found Swiss health care to be a bargain, and the cost to the patient boringly predictable, unlike the US where it seems one is assessed random copays and coinsurance and 20% of this and that. But again, different perspectives and experiences.
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Old 22.10.2015, 19:22
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

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I know everyone has a different perspective based on their own experience, but I've found Swiss health care to be a bargain, and the cost to the patient boringly predictable, unlike the US where it seems one is assessed random copays and coinsurance and 20% of this and that. But again, different perspectives and experiences.
Indeed.

There are things I wish were different about the Swiss health care system, and Swiss health insurance... but cost of medical care and the cost of health insurance sure isn't one of them.

Compared to back home in the US, the cost of health care here came as something of a pleasant surprise.
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Old 22.10.2015, 20:28
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

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You seem to mean the doctor even made a smear test, right?
Well, she made the smear test and ultrasound examination, both of them.
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Old 22.10.2015, 20:33
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Re: Huge Doctor rechnung

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Well, she made the smear test and ultrasound examination, both of them.
Piece by piece the info comes to light - first 291 for unknown examinations, then the 291 included a smear test, and now they include a smear test and an ultrasound.

Absolutely reasonable costs. You can't expect an ultrasound and pap smear to cost next to nil...

Last edited by 3Wishes; 24.10.2015 at 22:56. Reason: changed name in quoted text
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