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Old 19.11.2015, 10:09
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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In a culture where tipping is the norm you'll end up in a situation when the service level decreases rather than increases. If the social norm is to tip 15% you will continue to do so even if you have had shoddy service as socially you feel obligated to do so. If the norm is not to tip, you'll leave no tip and feel a great obligation to complain.

Oh, come on, because of tipping you'll end up in a situation when service level decreases? Really? Ok, this is a pathetic argument, let me use your word now. The social norm in the US is to tip $0 if service is bad. If service is ok, then you tip 15%. If service is GREAT, you tip whatever you like - some tips have been 100% and more, though admittedly this is rare; yet again, we are talking about exceptional service.

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Furthermore the tip is monetized representation of the overall service received - so if a server is sickly sweet and is perfect in delivering your food, but the food is ghastly it is much harder to complain. And do you then feel comfortable tipping when the quality of the food was so terrible?

Of course not! I let the chef know the food is ghastly. It is immediately taken away and a new one is prepared. The chef comes back then to make sure it is exactly what we wanted. Then we tip generously It isn't harder to complain at all if you get crap from anybody!

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This is not about being anti-American it about having a level of social responsibility which says that someone working a full time job should be paid a living wage.

There is a time and a place for tipping, and I believe that it should be for exemplary service and not for just service. After all, I am perfectly able to find my own hotel room, insert the room key and turn the lights on all by myself.

(And I'd consider my politics to be blue)

Mate, maybe your politics isn't blue, but red, flaming red, as in the USSR red?


I am also capable of finding my own room and am glad it is an option! But if my frail grandmother gets to the same hotel, I wouldn't want her lugging 3 suitcases up the stairs or trying to fit them in those mini 1-person elevators you see in the hotels in Europe. Would prefer she tips someone to do that for her.
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  #162  
Old 19.11.2015, 10:09
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

Link to wiki on Economic Inequality
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  #163  
Old 19.11.2015, 10:10
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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You can be an anti-American but don't let that blind your logic.
I'm not at all anti-American.

Hell, I used to be one myself!

(but, thankfully, I got out when it was still free to do so )

Tom
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  #164  
Old 19.11.2015, 10:16
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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Yes, actually.

Tom


Oh, really Tom, well, do tell that story please if you are not so busy groaning at people for expressing their opinions. Or do you much like comments about drugs and guns, my wife's passing away and the Evil US Empire?
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  #165  
Old 19.11.2015, 10:28
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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Oh, really Tom, well, do tell that story please if you are not so busy groaning at people for expressing their opinions. Or do you much like comments about drugs and guns, my wife's passing away and the Evil US Empire?
Did you run out of arguments? Very childish post.
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  #166  
Old 19.11.2015, 10:43
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

So, apparently the United States and Switzerland have very different cultural practices.


Glad we've cleared that up.
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  #167  
Old 19.11.2015, 10:47
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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An individual who isn't great at their (customer facing) job will inevitably lose their job due to poor performance.


All evidence points to the contrary.
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  #168  
Old 19.11.2015, 10:52
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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these are high potential people. you cannot compare it to people doing this as a regular job.

Why not? Are you saying the "high potential" people are better than store clerks?


That sounds like a class distinction comrade.
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Old 19.11.2015, 12:14
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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What I don't get is the Americans bitching about cash - every American I have met has had a money clip with a wad full of cash. Admittedly that wad might amount to just 30 dollars and solely be used for tipping people for just doing their job.

When is a 40 dollar meal not a 40 dollar meal? When you are obligated to use valet parking (parking fee + tip to take car + tip to get car) and pay a 20% tip.

Tipping breeds a contemptuous society - those who tip look down on those who are tipped and those jobs are considered low skilled and the workforce disposable. I struggle to understand what is wrong with paying a fair price for something so the workers can be paid a fair living wage without having to fain a sugary sweet "have a nice day"

Have a nice day
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  #170  
Old 19.11.2015, 12:21
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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So, apparently the United States and Switzerland have very different cultural practices.


Glad we've cleared that up.

Nice to see you back on the ball after your holiday, obviously did you good
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  #171  
Old 19.11.2015, 12:46
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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Oh well, at least you`ll have some anecdotes to tell when you get back home.....

One rule I learnt here in CH - always have a couple bank notes tucked into an inside pocket, just in case you find a small restaurant and need a drink!

The nice thing about that is whenever you run out of cash at home you just have to rummage thru your jackets to find the stash.

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Have you ever thought of the fortune you might have washed away?
Swiss banknotes are indestructible. Just washed a 100 chf one a couple of days ago.
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  #172  
Old 19.11.2015, 12:51
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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Did you run out of arguments? Very childish post.


You apparently missed the context from prior posts and groans.
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  #173  
Old 19.11.2015, 12:56
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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In my job, tipping is defined as bribing...


What, you don't get bonuses???
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Old 19.11.2015, 13:18
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

On the topic of tipping, I'd like to ask those with experience of it in the US, how often do you not tip? I ask because if one tips all or the vast majority of the time, then in effect you're not paying extra for service that is beyond the expected, but just for adequate service.

If this is the case, does it really make sense to pay extra for what is essentially the person's job? Should this not be the responsibility of the employer, or are they only paying them to do a poor one? Is adequate service only to be expected upon payment of what may be defined as a bribe?

I understand that many Americans are comfortable with their system of tipping, but surely you must has asked yourselves does this even make sense?
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Old 19.11.2015, 13:41
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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Tipping breeds a contemptuous society - those who tip look down on those who are tipped and those jobs are considered low skilled and the workforce disposable. I struggle to understand what is wrong with paying a fair price for something so the workers can be paid a fair living wage without having to fain a sugary sweet "have a nice day"
Seen this to be true so many times. The nicest, friendliest people suddenly turned into overdemanding, rude and arrogant twats, just because they were handing out tips. Of course not everyone is like that but methinks it adds fuel to the kind of attitude dodgyken describes.
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  #176  
Old 19.11.2015, 13:46
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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On the topic of tipping, I'd like to ask those with experience of it in the US, how often do you not tip?
Always, but once only $0.01 (on a credit card).

Better service = more, less service = less, but always tip.

Not tipping shows that you are stupid, not that the service was bad.

Tom
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Old 19.11.2015, 13:55
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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On the topic of tipping, I'd like to ask those with experience of it in the US, how often do you not tip? I ask because if one tips all or the vast majority of the time, then in effect you're not paying extra for service that is beyond the expected, but just for adequate service.

If this is the case, does it really make sense to pay extra for what is essentially the person's job? Should this not be the responsibility of the employer, or are they only paying them to do a poor one? Is adequate service only to be expected upon payment of what may be defined as a bribe?

I understand that many Americans are comfortable with their system of tipping, but surely you must has asked yourselves does this even make sense?
In the US you have to tip 100% of the time, that's the norm. You don't tip when the service was very bad: the waitress was unpolite, you waited too much, they dropped something on you, etc.

I personally, as a customer, didn't like it when I lived the US. I simply didn't want to pay a 15-25% higher bill, so I understand and somewhat agree with your reasoning.

However, on the other hand, it's a way to reward those who do a better job. It's like a performance bonus for those who go an extra mile to serve the customer. In that way I prefer it than the European mentality that everybody should take the same salary if the job is the same.

In CH or in Europe you come around good waitresses and bad waitresses. They all get the same salary. In the USA a bad one will not last long on the job. As a customer you have a much higher chance to have a good experience while in CH/EU it's a gamble.
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  #178  
Old 19.11.2015, 14:07
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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On the topic of tipping, I'd like to ask those with experience of it in the US, how often do you not tip? I ask because if one tips all or the vast majority of the time, then in effect you're not paying extra for service that is beyond the expected, but just for adequate service.

If this is the case, does it really make sense to pay extra for what is essentially the person's job? Should this not be the responsibility of the employer, or are they only paying them to do a poor one? Is adequate service only to be expected upon payment of what may be defined as a bribe?

I understand that many Americans are comfortable with their system of tipping, but surely you must has asked yourselves does this even make sense?


You are actually asking many questions in this thread.


Reservoir Dogs (the movie) has a good scene about tipping in the US. Harsh language - but sums up the same topics as here and from an American perspective.


I believe in tipping because I think hard work should be rewarded. I also believe that once you get something routinely, you value it less.
Raise wages where tips are no longer needed and service will go down. If everyone tips all the time, service will also go down. That's why good sales guys are not afraid of being on a heavy commission plan while crappy ones whine about their base salary. Its human nature.

Last edited by VFR on top; 19.11.2015 at 14:18.
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  #179  
Old 19.11.2015, 14:24
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

Tipping a bartender or paying a dollar for someone to open a bottle of beer and who is already paid by the bar to open bottles of beer.

Even better - you tip them $2 for mixing a complicated drink. FFS, they are bartenders, their job, for which they are paid is to open bottle, pour drafts, and mix drinks.

Last edited by dodgyken; 19.11.2015 at 17:25.
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  #180  
Old 19.11.2015, 14:24
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Re: Miss the level of service in the USA

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Reservoir Dogs (the movie) has a good scene about tipping in the US. harsh language - but sums up the same topics as here and from an American perspective.
If I remember correctly, the argument there was that tipping was not there to reward better service but to supplement otherwise inadequate income - in short, paying the shortfall not paid by the employer.
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I believe in tipping because I think hard work should be rewarded. I also believe that once you get something routinely, you value it less.
But is that not the case already? Has the system of tipping not just become meaningless because you'll still get a tip even with adequate or even mediocre service? Or are one cent tips commonplace?
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That's why good sales guys are not afraid of being on a heavy commission plan while crappy ones whine about their base salary. Its human nature.
Mediocre sales people don't get sales, thus don't earn commission. Mediocre customer service still gets tips. That's the problem with your analogy.

I understand the argument in favour of American-style tipping, it's just that it appears that while it once the logic worked at keeping standards high, it doesn't anymore.
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