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  #41  
Old 23.11.2015, 21:32
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

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Do what the pensioned Swiss do and go straight to the "Social Amt"


This is a Govt. organisation which gives money to people below a certain income level.


According to some Swiss newspapers last week the "Social Amt" has budget problems due to the unexpectedly high number of Swiss pensioners who go straight to the "Social Amt" on retirement!
From what I know, Sozialamt pays only if or after all your other avenues are exhausted. E.g. if you have property in your name (although you might still be paying off the mortgage), they won't even consider you.
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  #42  
Old 23.11.2015, 21:32
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

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Extremely sensible advice. Wish I had known this when I moved here, but no one would have guessed Sep. 11/2001 and its aftermath.

What is the connection between Sep. 11/2001 and the wage problems of the over fifties


Major reason for the wage problems of the over fifties is the extra social payments the employer has to pay for these!
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  #43  
Old 23.11.2015, 21:38
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

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What is the connection between Sep. 11/2001 and the wage problems of the over fifties


Major reason for the wage problems of the over fifties is the extra social payments the employer has to pay for these!
Well, it wasn't so bad for the over 50s till then, at least in the industry I work. This is what I have been told by my Swiss colleagues. Things changed drastically after Sep 11.
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  #44  
Old 23.11.2015, 22:24
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

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Well, it wasn't so bad for the over 50s till then, at least in the industry I work. This is what I have been told by my Swiss colleagues. Things changed drastically after Sep 11.
Call their bluff
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  #45  
Old 24.11.2015, 00:54
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

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the simple answer is don't retire in zurich. retire in a rural area. property is much cheaper there.

the even more simple answer is: don't retire in switzerland.

if you do want to retire in switzerland, then best start investing now because as you noted, it is very expensive to live here.
Yeah that is what seems to be the reality: do not retire in Switzerland, although it is fine for your working life.
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  #46  
Old 24.11.2015, 07:36
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

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What is the connection between Sep. 11/2001 and the wage problems of the over fifties


Major reason for the wage problems of the over fifties is the extra social payments the employer has to pay for these!
The extra payments are small a few percent, its not even required to be paid on full salary.

The bigger problem is old people expect to be paid more, rather than being paid on what they can actually worth relative to every one else.
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  #47  
Old 24.11.2015, 09:39
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

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The bigger problem is old people expect to be paid more, rather than being paid on what they can actually worth relative to every one else.
No, the bigger problem is generalization, prejudice, and cowardice.


Firing categories is easier to spin than assessing individual performance.
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  #48  
Old 24.11.2015, 13:22
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

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No, the bigger problem is generalization, prejudice, and cowardice.


Firing categories is easier to spin than assessing individual performance.
Whilst it is true that the older employees generally need to be paid more (not just the social payments), I agree that there is a tendency to find "an easy way out", may be borne out of generalisation and prejudice. The management doesn't have the time and more importantly, inclination to sit down and negotiate, or find any solution to retain the older employee (lower salary? other dept?). These things are unpleasant so the sooner they get them over with the better. I know of a friend whose organisation actively fired older employees to bring the average employee age down to about 36. This friend who was 51 then was fired since, ostensibly, his position was being made redundant and then within a week of that, was given the employee of the year award (so definitely not a performance issue). The position was kept vacant for about 18 months and then refilled again with a much younger colleague.
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  #49  
Old 24.11.2015, 13:32
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

At a time when political momentum is gathering steam to raise the retirement age because the pension scheme is in trouble, more and more people are finding their careers are cut short in their 50s.

An out trade Switzerland is going to have to deal with eventually. At present, though, heads seem to be stuck in the sand.

For now one has to plan for the new reality. The likelihood of working at your current company or in your current field until retirement age is growing smaller every year.
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Old 24.11.2015, 16:39
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

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Whilst it is true that the older employees generally need to be paid more (not just the social payments), I agree that there is a tendency to find "an easy way out", may be borne out of generalisation and prejudice. The management doesn't have the time and more importantly, inclination to sit down and negotiate, or find any solution to retain the older employee (lower salary? other dept?). These things are unpleasant so the sooner they get them over with the better. I know of a friend whose organisation actively fired older employees to bring the average employee age down to about 36. This friend who was 51 then was fired since, ostensibly, his position was being made redundant and then within a week of that, was given the employee of the year award (so definitely not a performance issue). The position was kept vacant for about 18 months and then refilled again with a much younger colleague.
I think it's a bit sad but completely understandable and logical. It's not a question of age, it's a question of earning a higher salary than what is the real value of his/her work. The old guy had his chance so now let a younger come in.

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At a time when political momentum is gathering steam to raise the retirement age because the pension scheme is in trouble, more and more people are finding their careers are cut short in their 50s.

An out trade Switzerland is going to have to deal with eventually. At present, though, heads seem to be stuck in the sand.

For now one has to plan for the new reality. The likelihood of working at your current company or in your current field until retirement age is growing smaller every year.
I think everybody nowadays should be aware that no one will have a single career for his/her entire life AND PREPARE FOR IT.
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  #51  
Old 24.11.2015, 16:45
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

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I have been here for 6 months and am finding the whole place a bit quiet. I had moved from Amsterdam, previously Dublin, so not exactly massive cities like London, etc.,. But even so, it is quite quiet around, the bars, restaurants, etc., are just lacking a bit of spark and energy. Is this normal or am I just depressed at all the fog!

And the cost of everything, even on a fairly decent salary, between 150-200k, the cost of longer-term living is considerable. I have read enough to know to not do a "can I survive above 120k" thread. BUT, primarily I am concerned about two things that put me off at the moment. This is not about rent or day to day costs.

1. The pension system: unless I buy back the missing years for when I was not living here, and invest long term into pillar three, I will end up with what is for Switzerland a pretty bad pension. Certainly not something that could afford an okay (I mean, CHF1500 a month) apartment some place and a normal life, near people and not in completely middle of nowhere.
- so it means the potential savings from low tax salary is either in a bank to replace this missing pension, or else it is in a pension itself, which simply does not add up when I look at the cost
- you need say 70k a year pension for two people. That is around e.g., 4.5k a month. Between rent and health insurance and groceries in the year 2040 in Switzerland, I can see CHF4.5k not lasting long.
- Alternatively, you could save a lot. E.g., 3k a month. Over e.g., 30 years it is CHF1.1 million. So, you could use that cash to be a pension of e.g., CHF4.5k/month for 20 years. At the same time as having the regular Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 it would work. You would die with nothing, but probably live okay.

2. Property: the alternative when a pension is not adequate, is to buy property. But, even on a decent salary on the surface, the cost of property that is okay to live long term, is simply not an option. Right now under CHF800k are exactly 8 properties on Comparis, with 3.5 rooms.

So my comment is, I find the city a bit quiet compared to Amsterdam and Dublin, but that said, it is a different place and a different culture which I can accept it with time. The second and more significant and longer term problem for me, is how do people plan for living here long term, as most property in the job region around Zürich is very expensive, and the alternative is putting the "spare" money into pure cash savings or as much into a Pillar 3 as possible. At 65, you must retire, and being non-Swiss, probably would have no ability financially to stay here after retirement and have to leave the country having lived for several decades here.

Any comments on this I would greatly appreciate. Maybe everyone here is on combined incomes of 400k and can afford a 4.5 room property investment as a pension, or have super duper pension schemes. Or, they move out of Zürich after retirement and go home, with a CHF pension that pays a good standard of living in your home country.

Add in kids, and the cost spirals, and the 3k a month savings would be much more difficult to sustain. So, I am wondering, what on earth are people doing, or am I simply too poor to stay, and are all of you the people driving the Lambos around Talackerstrasse on Saturday afternoons and not worried about all of this.
Switzerland is the country in which people, on average, have the highest net worth in the world, by a long margin. So in theory Swiss retirees are better off here than their counterparts in the EU.

You should stop thinking like the average European and build wealth like the Americans do: saving and investing.
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  #52  
Old 24.11.2015, 16:55
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Re: Finding things in Zurich a bit quiet, concerned about pension

Since work has become ,what I call it "Painting by the Numbers ". there is no need for old experience folks no more
I worked till I was 70 and still do freelancing ,if you need some HVAC call me
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