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  #101  
Old 24.11.2015, 09:02
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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That sure has hell is not a shepherds pie. For a start there is no lamb in it and sweetcorn has no place in a Shepherds pie. Peas and carrots yes, sweetcorn, no.

Cottage Pie uses beef mince - not steak.
I know, I know.. Their is no other name in English for this French Canadian comfort food.

It's called pâté chinois
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  #102  
Old 24.11.2015, 09:16
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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I likes Swiss food, especially from Graubunden.
Still, I had a good, loud laugh when I read the above. Mostly, it's a bunch of mountain food that was meant to be sturdy, filling, and that poor folks could easily scrap together. Much like our (northern Italian) polenta and mushroom, polenta and cheese, etc.

Tasty - maybe. Sophisticated - not a chance.
Indeed (although perhaps a definition of "sophisticated" would be in order. Does it mean using expensive ingredients? having complicated recipes? having recipes that require significant culinary skill to make properly)?

I had mentioned in an earlier post the difference between German Switzerland and and the rest of the country. What makes it even more interesting is what they do with the same ingredients. Take flour, cheese, potatoes, milk. In German Switzerland they make Alpler Magronen which when made badly (which is more often than not) is so heavy and stodgy that it could easily be used as a weapon of war . Whereas in the Ticino, the Italian Swiss turn the same ingredients into feather light Gnocchi, often poetry on a plate.

As a somewhat serious foodie, I find that "poor folks" food is often the tastiest (e.g. spaghetti with oil, garlic and pepperoncini, a simple red lentil Dhal with an unraised flatbread; goats cheese, olives and a glass of new wine), but - and this is a big but - the quality of these ingredients has to be high (I once had a Bündner Gerstensuppe where the cook/chef in the tiny Beiz we ate in used quality ingredients and cooked the soup with care and attention. It was, undoubtedly, one of the finest soups I've ever eaten)

Unfortunately, many of the superb "unsophisticated" peasant recipes require not only high quality ingredients but also time in prep and cooking. Boning, stuffing and cooking a Pig's trotter requires skill (unsophisticated, huh???) and without a Nonna or Mémé or an Aunty at home in the kitchen to (help) cook for the family, such dishes rarely appear on the table (the old time Nonna or Mémé were frequently fearsome shoppers and the terror of the local markets [so am I and I was once told off in a supermarket for gently squeezing vegetables to determine ripeness!])

Which brings me back around to the topic of Supermarkets - what they stock and they quality thereof. I would postulate that the absence of time and food knowledge makes the average shopper an "easy mark" (If your customer does not know, say, how a properly cut, aged and marbled steak should look like, it is easy to fob off a pale imitation of a good steak onto the customer). Not knowing better and with no time (or inclination???) to prepare "simple" peasant food from scratch, customers go home with just about adequate ingredients, sold - to the delight of the supermarkets - at pretty much premium prices (at least that's my observation and take on things)

TD
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  #103  
Old 24.11.2015, 09:36
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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Actually I like it. I certainly prefer them to the offerings I saw in the hallowed UK and US.

Lidl, Aldi, Carrefour, etc originate from foreign chains, presumably it would be easy to broaden the dull local offerings. Yet they don't. Must be because they've integrated way quick.
Or maybe (in the case of Lidl and Aldi) because that's the way they operate. Lidl and Aldi in the UK have a very similar range to the stores here - some regional adjustments (+ and -) sure, but still pretty similar.

Only real difference is that the UK stores are mostly grottier. Although apparently they've just started working on that there as well.
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  #104  
Old 24.11.2015, 09:57
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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I'm still awaiting Urs Max's response as to what he likes better.

There have been stories of locals complaining about too much choice in Migros and all that foreign looking muck should be removed from the shelves.

Is that the way you see it Urs?

Otherwise I'm at a loss to see why more choice in food is a bad thing.
Well Tom, as usual you see what you want to see, that includes reading things into what people say that aren't there.

Perhaps you should start with an English course, you may learn the difference between "different" and "better".
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  #105  
Old 24.11.2015, 10:13
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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Well Tom, as usual you see what you want to see, that includes reading things into what people say that aren't there.

Perhaps you should start with an English course, you may learn the difference between "different" and "better".
You said "different". I said "worse".

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Actually I like it. I certainly prefer them to the offerings I saw in the hallowed UK and US.

If you "prefer" something then you think it is "better".

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Prefer
verb
1.
like (one thing or person) better than another or others; tend to choose.
So, what do you like better?

Is it the lack of choice or something else?
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  #106  
Old 24.11.2015, 10:24
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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You said "different". I said "worse". If you "prefer" something then you think it is "better".
Is it the lack of choice or something else?
For me: lack of choice makes the supermarket smaller, resulting in them being located more frequently and also making decision-making quicker - this means I spend less time doing the weekly shop. Which I equate to being a good thing.
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  #107  
Old 24.11.2015, 10:52
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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I would love to see tesco/Carrefour etc come in here and show them how its done.
Carrefour was here, but they didn't work out.

As for foreign supermarkets, other than Aldi and Lidl, there is also Crai.

Tom
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  #108  
Old 24.11.2015, 11:15
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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and single malt whisky prices are lower than the UK

</GENERAL RETORT>


I've clearly missed this - which? Where?
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  #109  
Old 24.11.2015, 11:16
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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I've clearly missed this - which? Where?
Everywhere! But especially Denner.
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Old 24.11.2015, 11:18
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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I think in England I even saw spaghetti in tins
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  #111  
Old 24.11.2015, 11:32
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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Everywhere! But especially Denner.




A foray to Denner is clearly in our very near future! Ta muchly. I've seen some decent (ish) blended (I know, I know) stuff but haven't been aware of the singles. Maybe I've not been in a whisky frame of mind til now.
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  #112  
Old 24.11.2015, 11:38
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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I think in England I even saw spaghetti in tins ... never tell that to an Italian. Or if you want to see him cry out of despair, do.
You don't need to tell him - he already knows:



My wife has relatives in Southern Italy. he family make their own cheese and grow tomatoes etc to sell at the local markets. The food is simple but absolutely amazing.

One came to Switzerland for a visit about ten years ago.

Whenever we mention this to him, he bursts out in laughter when he's reminded about the food. He found it hilariously bad.
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  #113  
Old 24.11.2015, 11:44
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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Well, I would like to see another (rather small) country with a similar range of Food, from many regions and cultures, in many fields, don't matter if we are talking bread, cheese, desserts, tarts, cookies, coffee, beverages or wine.
I honestly don't think many countries, where simply much less of the ingredients grow or must be imported at a high price, could compete.
Apart from California, do they have any wine production in England and the US? Do they understand anything of coffee and cakes? How many different types of cheese do they have?
I think in England I even saw spaghetti in tins ... never tell that to an Italian. Or if you want to see him cry out of despair, do.


Which decade were you previously in (and shopping in) the UK? And yes, we have a lot of wine production in the UK. My region has it's own vineyard.


Yep - we understand both coffee and cake - they're not particularly difficult concepts to grasp. Both yum. And I'd stack my Nana's Victoria Sponge against most of the Migros/Co-op offerings any day. I don't really eat much cheese (cow's cheese anyway, lactose intolerant) but every supermarket has vast amount of choice. In addition, red onions, pearl barley and sweet potatoes are standard. No-one looks askance if you ask for any of these items in the UK.


Here it took three members of staff in my local Co-op (all very helpful, admittedly) to point out where pearl barley would have been - if only they stocked it. Which they don't.


This spaghetti in tins - would it have been Heinz by any chance? Top stuff!


I'm fully aware that food opinions are subjective, but I am genuinely appalled at the low quality fruit and vegetables on offer. And we've only really found one decent place to eat out since we've been here - and that's an Italian, run by Swiss-Italians.
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  #114  
Old 24.11.2015, 12:05
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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A foray to Denner is clearly in our very near future! Ta muchly. I've seen some decent (ish) blended (I know, I know) stuff but haven't been aware of the singles. Maybe I've not been in a whisky frame of mind til now.
Examples from COOP on Friday:
Talisker Storm 50chf (UK price = 40gbp)
Glenlivet Founder Reserve 37chf (UK price = 37gbp)


I suspect a more concentrated look at the Paul Ullrich whisky list is now required!
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Old 24.11.2015, 12:10
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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Here it took three members of staff in my local Co-op (all very helpful, admittedly) to point out where pearl barley would have been - if only they stocked it. Which they don't.
I find it odd that they wouldn't have "rollgerste", as it's a Swiss staple.

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I'm fully aware that food opinions are subjective, but I am genuinely appalled at the low quality fruit and vegetables on offer. And we've only really found one decent place to eat out since we've been here - and that's an Italian, run by Swiss-Italians.
I don't have the impression the quality is bad. Rather the oposite. And the local Migros stocks veggies I wasn't even aware of before I came here.

The thing is, it's different here. One collegue of mine (from the UK) complains a lot about the lack of canned soups. My answer: What do you need canned soup for?
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Old 24.11.2015, 12:12
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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For me: lack of choice makes the supermarket smaller, resulting in them being located more frequently and also making decision-making quicker - this means I spend less time doing the weekly shop. Which I equate to being a good thing.
oh, absolutely!

Like, for example, in Cuba:


or in Soviet Union, during the 90ies:



The decision making was indeed quick, which according to dodgyken can't be anything but great!

Last edited by Ace1; 24.11.2015 at 12:34. Reason: Resizing image
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  #117  
Old 24.11.2015, 12:14
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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I know, I know.. Their is no other name in English for this French Canadian comfort food.

It's called pâté chinois
Are you from my part of the world, by any chance?

Do you make it with creamed corn? I usually "cream" one can in the blender and mix it with another can of corn.

I almost made one this weekend, but I'm out of homemade ketchup and my jars to make it are still in storage in Norway. It's not the same without my grand-ma's ketchup...
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Old 24.11.2015, 12:20
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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For me: lack of choice makes the supermarket smaller, resulting in them being located more frequently and also making decision-making quicker - this means I spend less time doing the weekly shop. Which I equate to being a good thing.
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The decision making was indeed quick, which according to dodgyken can't be anything but great!
What do you think the "FOR ME" bit meant?

You seem to be confusing "reduced choice" with "no choice"!!
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  #119  
Old 24.11.2015, 12:25
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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Please stop now. You're just embarrassing yourself with your ignorant statements. One could counter with "have you ever left Switzerland?". Or question whether there is any (potable) wine production in Switzerland -- I know they produce vinegar in some of the low-lying parts, but what about wine? (Actually, there are some -- a very few -- decent-ish Swiss whites, but they pale (ha!) in comparison to wines from France, Italy, Australia, NZ, South Africa, Chile, Argentina,... you get the picture.)

Your question about wine production in England is laughable. Although there are 135 wineries with 470 vineyards in England and another 22 vineyards in Wales, you know very well that the climate there is not well suited to most grape varieties. Yet one can buy pretty much any wine from anywhere in the world, in London. What does your local Denner offer?

10% of all American wine is produced outside California, with Washington state alone producing more wine annually than Switzerland. California produces 27 times as much wine as Switzerland. Again, just about every wine imaginable from anywhere in the world can be purchased in Beverly Hills.

But if the origin of the food you eat is important to you, consider Rösti, a Swiss favourite -- presumably one of your vaunted sophisticated dishes. It's made predominantly from potatoes. Switzerland produces just over 300,000 tonnes of potatoes per year; the UK grows over 6,000,000 tonnes, and the US, more than 20,000,000. That makes food in the UK 2,000% more sophisticated than in Switzerland, and Swiss food only 1.5% as sophisticated as American food. The facts don't lie.

You mentioned cheese. And coffee. The UK produces more than 700 different varieties of cheese. Switzerland produces only 450. Which sounds the more sophisticated? As for coffee, well, you've got me there. England grows exactly the same amount of coffee as Switzerland. However, coffee is produced commercially in Hawaii (and in Puerto Rico). Even Australia grows more coffee than Switzerland -- pushing Swiss food even further down the Ladder of Sophistication!

In other words, what's your point? You love your Swiss food and you come over all warm and patriotic when you see a plate heaped with shredded fried potato with a slab of pork and a fried egg on top. Just because you love it, doesn't make it "sophisticated". I love Australian meat pies with sauce (none of this "ketchup" nonsense). Believe me, they're far from sophisticated; delicious, though. And I love Swiss food, too, but I'm sufficiently dispassionate to tell that it isn't sophisticated, either.

You really should try visiting these countries you're so quick to disparage, and try "going native". Don't stick to McDonalds or the big-chain take-aways -- find local restaurants and give the local cuisine a try. Naive, outdated statements about the quality of food abroad just show you up as parochial and ignorant.
Not going to discuss what is and what isn't sophisticated food or the variety of cheese in the UK vs. Switzerland. Good food is in my opinion good food, whether sophisticated or not, and I can enjoy a plate of capuns as much as a kaizeki meal provided it's made with care and good ingredients. Same applies to cheese, there are good and bad cheeses in Switzerland, the UK, France and pretty much everywhere cheese is being produced (although good Chinese cheese sounds a bit far fetched).

But your comment about wine is downright wrong. Have you tried a good aged Completer? Humagne rouge? Petite Arvine? Really good Pinot Noir from Graunbünden? I've been collecting wine since 2004, and I have to say Swiss wines were quite a surprise when we got here. I wasn't expecting that much variety. Of course, there is a lot of mediocre wine, but there is a lot of mediocre wine pretty much everywhere else wine is produced. We haven't stopped drinking wine from other countries (I like wine too much to cut myself from all the good stuff being produced worldwide), but believe me, there is a lot of good stuff to be found here if you do your research. On the other hand don't do your research, there'll be more good stuff left for me.
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Old 24.11.2015, 12:25
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Re: Swiss Supermarkets

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Are you from my part of the world, by any chance?

Do you make it with creamed corn? I usually "cream" one can in the blender and mix it with another can of corn.

I almost made one this weekend, but I'm out of homemade ketchup and my jars to make it are still in storage in Norway. It's not the same without my grand-ma's ketchup...
Yep from Montreal! I do the same so make it creamy!!! Hum.... Homemade ketchup! I never try to make it. My husband would love that I'm sure. He does like it when I do recipes from back home.

I made a pudding chomeur with maple sirup the other day for a group of friends who came for dinner, you should have seen their face!!!!
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