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Old 02.12.2015, 12:09
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Fertility IVF journey rant

Sorry for plaguing you with my rant... I'm just so so damn mad with my fertility journey and the whole process. It's unbelievably frustrating it's beggars belief my fertility journey has been a catalogue of disasters, failures and disappointments and a severe test of my patience. I am almost at the point of breaking down and I am this bit closer to running down to my doctors office and yelling at him and shoving my fist close to his face.
Like all women I put my trust in my doctor. After 4 years of heartache many failed IUI attempts, 2 miscarriages, I find out through research myself this AMH hormone which I should have tested for. So earlier this year I request for this to be tested and to my dismay I find out that I have low ovarian reserve and low number of follicles. I then research further & discuss further testing for other things which the doctor up to this point did not suggest earlier. The doctor performed a laproscopy procedure and there he found early stages of endometrosis as well as adhesions from D&C.
Ok so by this stage it was clear we need to step up and go for IVF. Due to time for recovery from surgery and their IVF waiting list, we attempted IVF in September. It failed - 7 follicles, 2 made it to transfer stage, 2 transferred, none implanted.
We wait on January for another fresh cycle but to my utter dismay the doctor in mind gets the dates wrong. Is it just me or how on earth is the IVF going to work when he's timed the egg transfer to be at the same time as my projected menstruation dates? Why the heck didn't he ask me before booking the slot with gynart? The dates cannot be changed apparently and I'm fuming. This is another failure from him and I just don't know what to do anymore. I'm torn a) If I go to another doctor it's a whole month of testing before they may accept me b) Not knowing what the other doctors are like. I'm foreign and don't speak the german language.
This whole process is continuous appointments, injections, waiting, follow ups - it's mentally and financially draining. No one should have to go through this torture. I almost feel like a guinea pig and a trial and error case until they may get this right or finally wake up by which stage it may be too late for me. I'm already 38 and I'm not getting any younger. It feels like I will be in menopause if I left everything in the hands of my doctor but I feel stuck on what I need to do next. I know only my egg reserves are low and it's driving me insane. It's like a slow torture which I am made to accept because I have to rely on the professionals to do their job properly. All the while my time is running out and no one cares or gives a damn. It's like take it or leave it - we have other women on the list to treat. Seriously this is really their attitude. They're always busy and never does anyone pick up the damn telephone. This process is tortuous. I'm going mad.
Honestly, I really hope I'm the only one here. I can't imagine this happening to others as well or other doctors in Switzerland behaving in such a manner. If by any chance you know of a good english speaking fertility doctor who is on the ball and really looks after their patients and gives a damn about a woman's desperate desires to be a mother please let me know. I haven't quite decided on what I will do next - whether to stay with this rather careless doctor for January's try. I'm still waiting for him after 2 days to call me just to explain why the heck he's booked those dates and what his plans are - it's just so frustrating and I feel I am held to ransom because of my desperate situation. After 5 years of trying I'm fluctuating being numb at times and being damn right pissed off.
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Old 02.12.2015, 12:22
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

I should imagine there are quite a lot of women who can relate to how you're feeling. You're on an emotional roller coaster. I think if you can change doctors it would be for the best as in your state of mind you're too stressed.
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Old 02.12.2015, 13:56
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

I know you are looking for sympathetic words in reply, but may I offer some unsolicited advise?

Why dont you consider adoption? You can save yourself huge amounts of heartburn, dissapointment, money and TIME.
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Old 02.12.2015, 14:03
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

Funny how people often give this as advice! Having seen an acquaintance go through the adoption process, I can tell you it is as heartbreaking, tiring, with tears and more tears along the way, as IVF.

I don't know what the adoption rules are like in CH, but I bet the rules are onerous to expats/ auslanders!

As to OP, I think Neddy is right. Perhaps a new doctor is the way forward - you are at a stage where you don't really trust him/ her. I wish you and your OH all the best.
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Old 02.12.2015, 14:13
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

Honestly I dont know if adoption in normally as difficult as you say it is. My point was only that OPs own research seems to suggest an uphill battle. I dont know if changing tge doctor will change tge situation
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Old 02.12.2015, 14:14
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

I'm really sorry about your situation sweetpumpkin. We have had the exact same experience with fertility clinics in Switzerland. Not caring, notoriously difficult to reach, taking wrong decisions without any explanation, very questionable hormone treatmens, lies / incompetence about legal side, etc. There is one thing on a high level though - that would be the price!

I think changing doctors would definitely be a good idea. I could recommend a couple of clinics in Austria (border with Switzerland / Liechtenstein, so the drive from Zurich is not horrible). They made a very competent impression and are far cheaper. Legal situation in Austria is more favorable as well, regarding how much the eggs can be tested, how long can they be developed before implantation, etc. You can take your Swiss test results with you, and there is even a possibility for you to transport the frozen eggs over to them, if you have any - they accept this. One thing I can't vouch for is their English skills, as we spoke German to them, but that can be checked beforehand.

I would be happy to provide you with more info, and put you in touch with my wife, if you'd like.

My opinion, however, before you make any decisions either way - take a bit of time off from this crazy rollercoaster. May be a little vacation, before starting it up again? I know that after so many years, you just want to get this done, but I think state of mind shouldn't be discounted. I firmly believe that stress levels are not very good for pregnancy chances.
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Old 02.12.2015, 15:26
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

Hi Sweetpumpkin,


Sorry to hear about your situation and, like Whitecrow, my wife and I turned to clinics outside CH after years of frustration with local doctors. We did one cycle with a clinic in Ireland that was unsuccessful, but they diagnosed the most likely culprit was my wife's eggs. We went to a clinic in the UK specializing in egg donors as a Plan B to adoption (tried both in CH and the UK) and (with a lot of luck!!) they matched us up with someone 95% matching our dream candidate within a week and were ready to sync cycles within the month. They retrieved 6 eggs from the donor, 3 of which were viable for implanting. They implanted the 1st one and my wife became pregnant - baby due in less than 3 weeks and it's been a drama free pregnancy (once we got past the 6/7 weeks mark where we were losing embryos in the past).


You've still got time (my wife is 41), but make sure you make the treatments count. The 10 or so cycles of IVF my wife did had a negative affect on her eggs and egg quality, which forced us to seek an egg donor.


Happy to share more info offline if you'd like - keep your head up! We had 6 years of roller coasters and now, after having finally figured eveything out, it's been worth everything we've gone through.
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Old 02.12.2015, 15:55
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

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I know you are looking for sympathetic words in reply, but may I offer some unsolicited advise?

Why dont you consider adoption? You can save yourself huge amounts of heartburn, dissapointment, money and TIME.




SVA - unfortunately, adoption in CH doesn't save heartburn, dissapointment, money nor time. My wife and I spent over 5 years trying to adopt. Unless you want either a special needs child or a child over 5/7 years old, it's extremely difficult to adopt through the CH system. Domestically there is an average of less than 30 babies put up for adoption, which only go to Swiss. All foreigners must look internationally to adopt.


After a more than 6 months vetting process, you can expect to wait a minimum 2-3 years for your application for a child under 3 years old to be considered by the country you've chosen. CH won't let you appy to more than one country, so you have to hope that during the years you're waiting, the country doesn't have a change in policy. In the last 5 years, some of the most popular countries, namely Ethiopia, Haiti, Uganda, Congo, Burkina Faso, etc... have changed policies, most of them freezing any international adoptions or adding a few years of admin to the wait. Many other countries have joined the Hague Convention, designed to improve conditions of orphans and ease adoption, but the first step when joining is to focus on domestic adoptions and only allow 'unadoptables' for international candidates.


An official, international adoption through the Swiss system costs minimum 25000 - 30000 chf per child. A round of IVF costs 5000-10000, depending on what is done. 10 years ago it was relatively cheap and easy to adopt internationally, but now it's expensive and a bureaucratic nightmare.


My experience with adoption was a lot more frustrating than fertility treatment, as once you apply for a child you have no control whatsoever in the process and the only word you have for a few years is if something has gone wrong, which it frequently does. The bureacractic ship is so big that, once you've set your course, you can't steer and you either arrive after a very long (expensive) journey or an iceberg takes you down (keep in mind your course is set in icy waters).


There are so many options today with fertility treatments, you feel a lot more involved in the process and can make choices that get you closer to having a child. You're likely to fail in the short term, but most of the time you learn something by failing, which gives hope that, with small adjustments, the next try might be the one...
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Old 02.12.2015, 16:22
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

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...We did one cycle with a clinic in Ireland that was unsuccessful, but they diagnosed the most likely culprit was my wife's eggs...


Congratulations on your successful pregnancy and upcoming birth!


Great! Though it didn't work, at least the clinic in Ireland diagnosed something! Tried as we might, we couldn't get a meaningful diagnosis out of the Swiss "specialists". If our questions weren't outright ignored, then the answers were to the tune of "Nature works in mysterious ways or God giveth and God taketh away", followed by a "don't worry there's always the next cycle (and the next payday for us!)".
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Old 02.12.2015, 16:38
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

Also had some unpleasant encounters here with our gynecologist in Switzerland...
After 3 years of emotional roller coaster during which I had 2 operations for endometriosis, 3 IUI treatments, 3 immunology treatments via a doc in Germany, we were ready to go the IVF route. The private clinic we were going to in Zürich left me with a good impression (OVA IVF clinic) but wanted to get a second opinion first as did not want to go that route if chances of success were limited or zero. So asked for a copy of my medical file and went to see a professor, specialized in endometriosis and worldwide recognized, and purely based on what I told him verbally, he suspected deficiency in progesteron hormone levels.
So returned to my doc here in Switzerland with his advice and suggested tests, got progesteron month later (which was 3 months before we had planned our first IVF attempt) and got pregnant that same month. My baby boy is 7 months old now.
Although I am really happy now how things turned out, I still can't help thinking that we lost at least 2 years... If only they had listened from the beginning (that way I would not have needed 2 operations) and did all tests properly.

I think it is very important to have a good feeling about your doc or gynecologist and trust him. After feeling unheard here in the local hospital, we escalated our complaints to the head doc of the Frauenklinik and were really treated well after that. Just follow your instincts! Although doctors hate it when you google stuff or research, just insist on getting tests done, provide you with information, etc. And don't be afraid to keep calling, mailing, etc. You are just one of the many patients they have so make sure you are being heard.

I have the feeling that when you see a doc in a private practice, you are serviced somewhat better. At least that is what I hear from the experience of a friend.

If you feel like you don't really trust your doc, just go see another one, albeit for a 2nd opinion.
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Old 02.12.2015, 22:59
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

You pay for IVF yourself - i.e. the Krankenkasse does not pay for it. I just wonder if this frees you up to use fertility clinics outside the canton? Just I am aware that Frauenspital Baselstadt has one of the highest success rates for IVF.

Cheers,
Nick
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Old 02.12.2015, 23:48
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

don't you have to take progesterone before the transfer anyway?
I was led to believe that IVF protocols do not leave things to chance like projected dates but everything is strictly controlled through hormone injections to obtain ideal conditions and because cycles are not always regular.
Maybe your doctor can already give you a calendar.
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Old 03.12.2015, 00:03
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

I guess we should maybe accept some people can't have children and as distressing as it maybe, this is life and people need to learn to live with it
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Old 03.12.2015, 07:45
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

Maybe "we" can accept it. For the couple it's their choice and only they can decide what path they want to take.

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I guess we should maybe accept some people can't have children and as distressing as it maybe, this is life and people need to learn to live with it
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Old 03.12.2015, 08:16
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

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I guess we should maybe accept some people can't have children and as distressing as it maybe, this is life and people need to learn to live with it.
I think you are out of topic. "Some people" can perfectly well have children with some medical help from a competent and caring doctor. It is the level of competence we are discussing about...
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Old 03.12.2015, 08:54
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

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I guess we should maybe accept some people can't have children and as distressing as it maybe, this is life and people need to learn to live with it
if it can be "cured" why live with it.
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Old 03.12.2015, 09:57
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

Well after yesterday's rant, I have calmed down a lot. Truthfully I lost control. I was going mad fuelled mainly by my doctor taking his time getting back to me and the pre-planned timing of my IVF in January which as mentioned, the egg transfer coincides with my menstruation - totally illogical to me & utter speechless at how this could happen. In some ways I had hoped against hope that someone could tell me that I am just mad and wrong to assume that the timing for these things don't matter.
I had built up so much hope to try again and felt disappointed with what I felt was sabotage towards my chances.
I was also mildly curious what other people's journeys have been like as in my world, I am surrounded by women who only just have to say the word baby and they're pregnant.
Well whatever, I need to pick myself up and try again. No point crying over spilled milk. I'll give up only when nature tells me to - menopause and I can count my lucky stars now that I still do have opportunities (albeit lower due to my low ovarian reserve) to try again but I know I need to be smarter and stop sticking with familiarity for fear of otherwise this my hinder my chances.
My doctor did eventually call me back yesterday and it's not what I wanted to hear - as much as I hated to hear it I knew it in my heart. I see it for the light it is now. My doctor is just too busy to devote the time, effort and attention towards his patients like me and as a result he misses things. It's obviously not what I want as this could cost my fertility.
I have now started to revisit and pick up on my earlier initial appointments which I had with ARGC in London and IVF centrum in Bregenz, Austria. If anyone has experiences with these clinics then please let me know. Otherwise sorry for the rant and thanks for listening.

Last edited by sweetpumpkin; 03.12.2015 at 11:00.
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Old 03.12.2015, 10:01
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

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I guess we should maybe accept some people can't have children and as distressing as it maybe, this is life and people need to learn to live with it
That's very easy to say when you already have children of your own, not so easy when you're the couple dealing with the situation.
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Old 03.12.2015, 11:23
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

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That's very easy to say when you already have children of your own, not so easy when you're the couple dealing with the situation.
Fully agree, and we're all different and will handle it differently which is why i said it is distressing.

It is also distressing, for me, to see the amount of children in the world abused and without anything and adoption procedures so difficult. Surely isn't it better to save 100 with a risk of say 3% of mis treatment than to make people jump through hoops for years in order to adopt and whilst this happens a lot more get abused or die whilst waiting for approval.

It's a very thorny subject and i fully agree with a basic assistance for conception, the question is where do you stop as once the genie is out of the bag, out of the bag it will stay.

We now have ladies of over 60 giving birth, cloning, the problems both physically and phsycologically around surogate mothers, to mention a few of the issues that will need to be dealt with in the future.

I think that a certain amount of treatment needs to be given, my eldest child was conceived in a "non traditional" way , but at a certain point there has to be an acceptance that it is unlikely to happen and if the need for children is so much, then there are alternatives to consider rather than continuing with expensive treatment that leads to further problems with depresion and rejection.
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Old 03.12.2015, 11:29
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Re: Fertility IVF journey rant

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I guess we should maybe accept some people can't have children and as distressing as it maybe, this is life and people need to learn to live with it
Perhaps the most insensitive post I've ever come across on EF. (Edit - posts crossed. I agree with some of the points you make in your last post).

And yet, I know several couples who 'gave up' trying, after years and years- and got pregnant soon afterwards as they relaxed and began to enjoy life together. And several who did go the adoption route and then got pregnant soon after- for the same reasons. And some who did go the adoption route - and truly regret not having done so sooner. Like friends of ours in the UK who were already in their 50s and adopted 3 sibblings, aged 2, 4 and 6. They are so happy but wish they had not wasted more than 10 years of their lives being so stressed and unhappy.

As Oldhand says- the couple, and it has to be as a couple, are the only ones to decide how they proceed. I say couple because I know in some cases one of the two truly wants to stop trying, but daren't express this- putting huge strain on the relationship and often breaking it.

Hope you find a way, YOUR way, and get all the support you need. x

Last edited by Odile; 03.12.2015 at 12:48.
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