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Old 11.01.2016, 14:00
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Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

Well, here we go: We are getting a "new" used car. Since the wife works at a bank did we think we put it in her name as it makes it easier to talk to the leasing company (part of her bank) and should get us a good deal for the insurance (because her bank has an agreement with a large insurance company that gives us a 20% discout). I gave the insurance guy all our details, he caclulated a rough estimate (I knew what model I wanted, but did not have the exact details as I did not settle yet on a specific used car...) and I specifically asked him weather or not there will be a price difference if the car gets registered on me or my wife. He told me that due to me being announced as the main driver and our similar age should the difference be minimal, so the company discount sounded like a good idea.

Then did the car dealer get the MFK done and registered the car on the wife's name with the help by the insurance agent. Now the insurance called me back and informed me that "well, we calculated it again and due to your wife's nationality is the premium quite a bit higher"... I'd not write this if we were talking about 50CHF a year... but with a 20% discount calculated in is she supposed to pay 1200 CHF a year MORE than me. Now I have to get the whole registration process repeated and fixed again...

I understand that insurances need statistical data to calculate their prices. I understand that certain factors, for example age, are the same for everyone: You simply are more likely to cause an accident when you are 18-25 years old. But I find discrimination based on gender or nationality just wrong: It's not our first car and we have a track record of not trashing them... so why can insurances not make an offer based on that as a reference instead? I am pretty sure this wouldn't be legal in many parts of the world.
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:04
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

Is your wife Asian?
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:06
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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Is your wife Asian?
Yes.

(But it's not like I'll actually will let her drive...)
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:10
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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I understand that insurances need statistical data to calculate their prices. I understand that certain factors, for example age, are the same for everyone: You simply are more likely to cause an accident when you are 18-25 years old. But I find discrimination based on gender or nationality just wrong:
isn't it the same thing. if you accept that statistically younger people cause more accidents so they have to pay more, why not allow for asian drivers causing more accidents so they have to pay more?
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:11
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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(But it's not like I'll actually will let her drive...)
then why insure it in her name.
Shouldn't she be the primary driver if it is on her name?
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:18
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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I understand that insurances need statistical data to calculate their prices. I understand that certain factors, for example age, are the same for everyone: You simply are more likely to cause an accident when you are 18-25 years old. But I find discrimination based on gender or nationality just wrong.
It's based on risk (as you of course well know). A young Balkan male hothead is likely to be a greater risk than a 50 year old Swiss woman who uses the car once per week to do the shopping. Usually women are cheaper to insure because, according to accident statistics at least, they are better drivers than men.
(Ger. ) http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/...story/13679869
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:20
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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then why insure it in her name.
Shouldn't she be the primary driver if it is on her name?
1. That was a joke.

2. As per first post: She works at the bank and can get a leasing easily while I work on a contract base which was something they found very weird. It's completely normal that a wife drive's a car registered on her husband. What's the issue when it's the other way around?
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:21
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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isn't it the same thing. if you accept that statistically younger people cause more accidents so they have to pay more, why not allow for asian drivers causing more accidents so they have to pay more?
No, it's not. When you are 18 do you not have a personal driving history - so the insurance has to take the average from all people in your situation from a historical record. No?
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:21
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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then why insure it in her name.
Shouldn't she be the primary driver if it is on her name?

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...we think we put it in her name as it makes it easier to talk to the leasing company (part of her bank)...

Not a bad reason to put it in her name, if the insurance works out to the same. Still, if she's not to be the primary driver then the OP should have just put the car in his name regardless.
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:25
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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Still, if she's not to be the primary driver then the OP should have just put the car in his name regardless.
Why? It's perfectly normal and the exact reason why you have to tell the insurance not just your particulars but also who will be the primary driver. When I was 18 was my car registered on my dad, not me. Nothing illegal at all - basically did my dad risk his low premium for a much lower rate for my car. Everyone in my high school did this...
The premium was then calculated based on both data sets...
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:28
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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Usually women are cheaper to insure because, according to accident statistics at least, they are better drivers than men.
No, they're statistically speaking just saver drivers. Reason for that is as follows. For one, the aformentioned, recently survived puberty, testosterone-ladden idiot with his leased 99 M3 shitbox, who has the need to qualify for the Embrach Dorfrally at every traffic light. The other reason is, that men drive more than women. For instance, jobs like truck, bus or taxi drivers are generally still occupied by men. Also, when a family or a couple is out and about it is also usually the man who drives, hence increasing the accident rate substantially.
Back on topic. Based on OPs previous posting history, we actually know the nationality of said wife. Needless to say, they are, (again statistically speaking ) the worst drivers on the face of the planet, which results higher estimated premiums.
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:29
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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No, it's not. When you are 18 do you not have a personal driving history - so the insurance has to take the average from all people in your situation from a historical record. No?
Do we really have to go through this again?

Insurance premiums are based on risk factors - what makes the policy holder more or less likely to claim? Age, marital status, sex, home owner, children, occupation - and in Switzerland nationality or permit and home country.

As much as we dislike that Urs (50yo, married, male, home-owner, 2 children, accountant) is going to have a lower premium that Ting-Tong (25yo, single, "female", n/a, no children, house-"wife" (see below)) it is the reality of any risk based assessment - basically any insurance!

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Old 11.01.2016, 14:29
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

We put the car in my Husband's name, as I had heard that insurance was higher for "foreigners" than Swiss. But when we insured the car, the insurance company said that actually UK citizens are the same category as Swiss for the insurance premium... I was quite surprised.

... Note in the UK, insurance varies depending on age, sex, where you live, where you park, and your job.... apparently footballers are a huge car insurance risk so theirs is sky high.
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:33
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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Why? It's perfectly normal and the exact reason why you have to tell the insurance not just your particulars but also who will be the primary driver. When I was 18 was my car registered on my dad, not me. Nothing illegal at all - basically did my dad risk his low premium for a much lower rate for my car. Everyone in my high school did this...
The premium was then calculated based on both data sets...
It is illegal - it is called "fronting"
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:35
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

It's a women that was obvious she would get higher fee! it's to cover the future parking damages

PS: yes it seems discrimination but apparently it's normal for insurances. I witnessed same situation where I put "French" vs "Swiss" vs "Eastern Europe" and the prices differs greatly, something about a few hundreds francs for the worse.

I'm not saying that it's "right" or acceptable but it appears to be "normal".

BTW it's possible to use stuff like comparis or the insurances website and to make simulation of the final price giving false data (so you're not harassed by brokers). You'll immediately see the prices difference. Easy Peazy.
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:38
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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Do we really have to go through this again?

Insurance premiums are based on risk factors - what makes the policy holder more or less likely to claim? Age, marital status, sex, home owner, children, occupation - and in Switzerland nationality or permit and home country.
Yes, and this is the complaints corner and I am pissed off that my insurance after telling me that it won't make a difference changes their mind and tell me that it does make 1200 CHF difference a year. This change of mind will cause me tons of trouble as I will need to change a just signed leasing agreement, go through the entire registering process again and what not.

And your problem is?

Last edited by Treverus; 11.01.2016 at 15:22.
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:40
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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It is illegal - it is called "fronting"
This article is about people lying to an insurance. That's not the scenario I mentioned: In Switzerland as well as Germany do you name both owner as well as primary driver to the insurance. As long as you tell the truth there is absolutely nothing illegal about it.
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:40
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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I understand that insurances need statistical data to calculate their prices. I understand that certain factors, for example age, are the same for everyone: You simply are more likely to cause an accident when you are 18-25 years old. But I find discrimination based on gender or nationality just wrong: It's not our first car and we have a track record of not trashing them... so why can insurances not make an offer based on that as a reference instead? I am pretty sure this wouldn't be legal in many parts of the world.
It's just the way it is and probably just another way for the insurance companies to make more money.
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:45
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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It is illegal - it is called "fronting"
Certainly not allowed in the UK.
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Old 11.01.2016, 14:46
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Re: Just another discrimination by nationality rant...

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Yes, and this is the complaints corner and I am pissed off that my insurance after telling me that it won't make a difference changes their mind and tell me that it does make 1200 CHF difference a year. This change of mind will cause me tons of trouble as I will need to change a just signed leasing agreement, go through the entire registering process again and what not.

And you problem is?
Don't trust any broker, etc.. it's their job to make money and fit false information to their pigeo..erm clients.

Why not doing it yourself? (the checks)

With insurance it's simple: find the rule yourself or get screwed one way or another.
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