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  #81  
Old 07.03.2016, 15:49
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Nae but in all fairness it's an important topic for expats or anyone trying to integrate into Switzerland's society, or at least to have a pleasant "few years" of cohabitation, living together and making a good experience out of it from both sides.

I just though it's a shame to ruin the entire possibly interesting debate based on limited experiences...
Since this thread is on personal impressons and feelings it necessarily bases on a limited number of personal experiences.
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  #82  
Old 07.03.2016, 16:04
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Since this thread is on personal impressons and feelings it necessarily bases on a limited number of personal experiences.
TCO! (Thanks Captain Obvious)
Is it not what I specified earlier by asking "how many experiences contribute to the general feeling"?

Clearly I observed that some are using very limited personal experience to draw conclusions.
Which is fairly weak especially when there are comments based on 1 interaction.

Again, clearly I don't have the same appreciation and I commented that it's not really valuable unless having a collections of events, say it all depends but at least 10 exchanges over a period of minimum few months to years.

Commenting based on 1 incident in the tram by someone out of on a mission to find brown sugar in Obi is not really valuable feedback, isn't?
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  #83  
Old 07.03.2016, 17:19
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

After reading a few posts here my personal feeling is that people mistake politeness for affection. Yes, the Swiss are (in general) very polite and well behaved, but what they really think about us foreigners....heh, who knows. They are people, like the rest of us. Expecting too much is very idealistic and naive IMO.
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  #84  
Old 07.03.2016, 17:28
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

Totally the opposite of what we experienced here. People in rural Switzerland can be a bit abrupt- and lack in social graces- but they are really warm and affectionate, and sincerely so.

Probably vastly different in ZH or GE.
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Old 07.03.2016, 18:38
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

people are very nice , so don't worry enjoy the nice culture and naturally blessed place
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  #86  
Old 07.03.2016, 21:00
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Yeah this thread is a mess, overall, there's no common understanding or anything interesting to retrieve from this thread...
A few "I got positive experience with someone", " I got conflict", etc...
All nothing to do with what I perceive as "being welcome" in Switzerland.
But hey, maybe someone, say who got fined by policeman seems to be able to use that experience to backup "feeling unwelcomed in Swtzerland"...

I think some basis needs to be established:

-What means being welcome? Can you say you have been welcomed because your female colleague was smiling to you???

-How many "experiences" contribute to the general feeling? Can you really say you are feeling welcome because once, someone was nice??? Or unwelcome because some freako on the tram was aggressive?

-Who is supposed to be "welcoming"? Locals? people with Swiss nationality? Expats?
Can you really say "unwelcome in Switzerland" because some people were nasty on EnglishForum??

-What were the initial expectations? Can you comment on being welcome because the postman was doing nice service?

-Whats the general attitude? Are you blaming every negative encounters based on your pre-conceived theory that everything not nice is due to your skin color or origin?


It seems people are using 1 element and draw conclusions from that solely.
I commented based on the numerous experiences I had and even if sometimes I had really negative one(s), I tend to moderate with other elements....

My overall impression, as said earlier is that whatever I will do, I will always only be "tolerated". Which is, in my opinion and based on my attitude and integration efforts, something negative. I would expect after so many times to "blend in" and considered as just another "citizen". Not happening here.
As comparison, in UK, even if the differences were greater (language, culture, etc...) I felt more considered on numerous aspects (not everything, of course).

Is that a big deal? Depends, it's also ok to have different culture, keep some of the roots, etc... but sometimes it is unpleasant to be reminded you are a "foreigner".

PS: I don't think there is a "right or wrong", regarding feeling welcomed or not, everyone can experience differently. But I do think the method used to lead to that conclusions has been incorrect or incomplete on numerous posts.
I suggest you go and live in Ireland for a couple of years. You will understand almost immediately what does it mean to feel welcome in a foreign country This is my benchmark albeit it is almost not possible to explain unless you experience it yerself.
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  #87  
Old 07.03.2016, 21:05
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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TCO! (Thanks Captain Obvious) ...Which is fairly weak especially when there are comments based on 1 interaction...
Sometimes it's not about the quantity, but the quality.
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  #88  
Old 07.03.2016, 22:34
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Sometimes it's not about the quantity, but the quality.
It must be at least one of those good things about living here that attracts us expats, which despite some adverse feelings and complaints, it still makes us stay. I bet you that factor is quality of life and not its quantity.
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Old 07.03.2016, 22:56
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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It must be at least one of those good things about living here that attracts us expats, which despite some adverse feelings and complaints, it still makes us stay. I bet you that factor is quality of life and not its quantity.
For me it's the weather and skiing The quality of life was much better in Ireland
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  #90  
Old 07.03.2016, 23:23
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

I feel very welcome here. Not just on an individual level but also as a neighbor, tourist, legal entity, tax payer, etc.
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  #91  
Old 08.03.2016, 10:22
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Sometimes it's not about the quantity, but the quality.
Yeah right, sometimes it's better to use your brain than your emotions...

And your statement, albeit sometimes true, is clearly not applicable here.

That would only prove a terrible generalization is taking place, even someone rather "jumpy":

Someone smiled at me today, wow i'm feeling so "welcome in Switzerland"...Someone was grumpy to me, I will pack my things and move away, i'm clearly "unwelcome in Switzerland"...

To draw such a conclusion based on limited interactions is only showing bad analysis.
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  #92  
Old 08.03.2016, 11:00
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Yeah right, sometimes it's better to use your brain than your emotions...

And your statement, albeit sometimes true, is clearly not applicable here.

That would only prove a terrible generalization is taking place, even someone rather "jumpy":

Someone smiled at me today, wow i'm feeling so "welcome in Switzerland"...Someone was grumpy to me, I will pack my things and move away, i'm clearly "unwelcome in Switzerland"...
Yes exactly that! Now multiply that by say, 1000 times a year and you might find a statistically significant pattern :>
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  #93  
Old 08.03.2016, 11:07
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Yes exactly that! Now multiply that by say, 1000 times a year and you might find a statistically significant pattern :>
We also don't need to go to that extreme- But comments based on 1 negative experience on the tram or 1 positive smile by a female colleague are also irrelevant (incomplete)!

Let's agree on an average, right? More than a few limited experiences and less than 1000 times a year (the statistically significant pattern).

What is relevant to share is more an experience, over an average period of time, rather than the emotional conclusion taken from 1 experience!

Sometimes it really look like you're all a bunch of teenagers disguising into adult professionals: "OMG someone did not smile at me, i'm so unwelcome in Swtzerland, my life is over!!! and I hate my paren...erm "forum legends"..."
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  #94  
Old 08.03.2016, 11:09
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Yeah right, sometimes it's better to use your brain than your emotions...

And your statement, albeit sometimes true, is clearly not applicable here.

That would only prove a terrible generalization is taking place, even someone rather "jumpy":

Someone smiled at me today, wow i'm feeling so "welcome in Switzerland"...Someone was grumpy to me, I will pack my things and move away, i'm clearly "unwelcome in Switzerland"...

To draw such a conclusion based on limited interactions is only showing bad analysis.

While I agree with the principle, I don't think it's a realistic approach for an internet forum.


Sure if we wanted to make a statistical conclusion with a certain confidence, we would need to have a much larger sample set of stories, ensure each story fits qualification for inclusion, then run welcomeness sensitivity analysis according to a set of guidelines.


But the reality is, that this is a social forum, and the complaints section, to 'get something off your back', so no one really cares to make a conclusion. Rather share and read a few examples of experiences, and maybe think: That ALSO happened to me, or that NEVER happened to me.


No one wants to read each and every little interaction, and no one wants to write them out either. Share and compare---but you are definitely correct when saying one should not sweep to general conclusions based on this thread alone.
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Old 08.03.2016, 11:19
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

What a load of intellectual bullshit. Has EF been taken over by spotty undergraduates or something?
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  #96  
Old 08.03.2016, 11:24
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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While I agree with the principle, I don't think it's a realistic approach for an internet forum.


Sure if we wanted to make a statistical conclusion with a certain confidence, we would need to have a much larger sample set of stories, ensure each story fits qualification for inclusion, then run welcomeness sensitivity analysis according to a set of guidelines.


But the reality is, that this is a social forum, and the complaints section, to 'get something off your back', so no one really cares to make a conclusion. Rather share and read a few examples of experiences, and maybe think: That ALSO happened to me, or that NEVER happened to me.


No one wants to read each and every little interaction, and no one wants to write them out either. Share and compare---but you are definitely correct when saying one should not sweep to general conclusions based on this thread alone.
True but the problems does not rely with what is posted but with the attitude of some, commenting on a general question, based on very limited interactions.

See I don't mind if the topic thread would be something like "Share 1 event which made you feel welcome/unwelcome in Switzerland". Then some of the replies would be adapted.

But to openly conclude having been welcomed based on... a chick smiling at work, seems to be rather limited and not adapted to this very topic.

It's out in the open, it's public, I think it should be a good debate rather than a gossip type, expressing your frustration or showing how everyone is wonderful type of zen cr@p (because someone smile at you, )
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  #97  
Old 08.03.2016, 11:25
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Yeah right, sometimes it's better to use your brain than your emotions...

And your statement, albeit sometimes true, is clearly not applicable here.

That would only prove a terrible generalization is taking place, even someone rather "jumpy":

Someone smiled at me today, wow i'm feeling so "welcome in Switzerland"...Someone was grumpy to me, I will pack my things and move away, i'm clearly "unwelcome in Switzerland"...

To draw such a conclusion based on limited interactions is only showing bad analysis.
Ever heard about qualitative research?
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Old 08.03.2016, 11:25
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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While I agree with the principle, I don't think it's a realistic approach for an internet forum.


Sure if we wanted to make a statistical conclusion with a certain confidence, we would need to have a much larger sample set of stories, ensure each story fits qualification for inclusion, then run welcomeness sensitivity analysis according to a set of guidelines.


But the reality is, that this is a social forum, and the complaints section, to 'get something off your back', so no one really cares to make a conclusion. Rather share and read a few examples of experiences, and maybe think: That ALSO happened to me, or that NEVER happened to me.


No one wants to read each and every little interaction, and no one wants to write them out either. Share and compare---but you are definitely correct when saying one should not sweep to general conclusions based on this thread alone.
I love your approach! I think I'll propose it to http://www.ehl.edu/en
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  #99  
Old 08.03.2016, 11:27
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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Ever heard about qualitative research?
To be honest I did heard about a lot of bullocks and numerous rubbish "research" and also a fair share of answers clearly showing that people can't address problems/statements correctly (not as right/vs wrong but as generalization, lack of analysis and understanding of the topic).
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Old 08.03.2016, 11:31
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Re: Do you feel unwelcome in Switzerland?

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What a load of intellectual bullshit. Has EF been taken over by spotty undergraduates or something?
Sorry please don't make me feel unwelcome in Switzerland by taking my lunch bag.
I won't do it again, trying to raise the discussion level on EF!
No need to put me in the locker or something, I'll do it myself --> []
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