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  #41  
Old 17.03.2016, 21:28
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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Seems when it comes to smoking weed plenty of discretion exists. I smell it all the time but then how would I know what it smells like?!
Admit it, and specify you never inhaled!? Perhaps you've mistaken one for a normal cigarette?
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  #42  
Old 17.03.2016, 21:31
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

yes it exists, but it depends on whether they have already met their production objectives, and also on your approach. some cops are just looking to make someone's day though, those are inflexible. a situation like yours i would not have expected though.
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  #43  
Old 17.03.2016, 21:41
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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I smell it all the time but then how would I know what it smells like?!
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Perhaps you've mistaken one for a normal cigarette?
Poor little old naive me had to be informed by 14-year-old British youngsters on holiday with us, that the group of 'Alpine diarymen' (Senne) at a typical Swiss music and yodel event up on an Alp, was smoking pot. I had no idea what it smelt like and it didn't occur to me that rolling their own cigarettes might be an hint that it wasn't just tobacco.
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  #44  
Old 17.03.2016, 21:42
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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I'm not quite sure about where I stand on the topic of discretion. Of course it's nice, but some people seem to think they are entitled to discretionnary treatment just because they are: foreigners, women, rich, old, good looking, young, whathever reason suits them then and there.

I remember the mother of one of the Troll's classmates who kept bitching about the traffic cops not being as "friendly" as where she had previously lived (London, Paris, New York). One week it was because she had driven on a red light, the other because the did a U-turn, another because she drove in the bus lane... She was quite vocal about how little consideration was shown to her as a foreigner although she had been here a few years already.

I'm all for cops being understanding, but I can understand them not wanting to be flexible if they meet too many "entitled" citizens and I would never expect them to give me special treatment. I'd be greatful if they did though, and I'm still thankful to the many SBB controllers who have shown flexibility during my first attempts with the SBB app.

But I agree with the OP that the situation sucked big time. You have all my sympathies.
Luckily I don't think that the situation exists anymore - which police official would put his career, life and family at risk for the flutter of a few false eyelashes nowadays?

Used to work in Texas.
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  #45  
Old 17.03.2016, 21:48
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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I'm not quite sure about where I stand on the topic of discretion. Of course it's nice, but some people seem to think they are entitled to discretionnary treatment just because they are: foreigners, women, rich, old, good looking, young, whathever reason suits them then and there.
I was all ready to tell my story of the x numbers of times that I have been "let off" of tickets. But now I'm not sure....

Ok... Basically I agree with you. The difference in my case is that I don't expect to be left off. Though I've grateful when I am.

There have been three instances in less than three months where I have been left off.

1. I was sitting at a red light, on the phone. There is knock on my window. It is a police man. "Oh shit", were the exact words out of my mouth. I opened the window and said "I'm sorry. It's an emergency". He said "someone headed to the hospital?" "No, sir"... "Then get off the phone and next time we won't even be talking about it". He had to tell me to get off the phone as I still had the thing stuck to my ear.

2. It's a Sunday. It has been snowing. I'm just going to run quickly down the train station to grab whatever it was I had forgotten. Probably milk for my cappuccino. There is about 10 cm of snow on my car. I wipe off the windows, the mirrors and the lights. I'm only going quickly down to the train station remember! I pull into the parking lot and there is a police van coming at me, in MY lane! (what's he thinking!!). Ok. I need to stop.
Open my window, I have snow on my car & I forgot my lights (eek!) "but officer, I live right up there. I'm only going to grab some milk". Officer says "do you know that most accidents happen with in 2km of one's home>".... "Funny. The only accident I've ever had happened at the end of my road"... He was not amused but let me go.

3. I have a meeting in Milan. I go to the train station 20 mins before the train leaves. That's enough time right? Only one line open. Current client clearly has serious issues. Finally get to the ticket counter. Train is sold out. WHAT??? I've never heard of such a thing. Call every one in panic. Next train arrives too late. Friend tells me. Buy a ticket for the next train then pretend you got on the wrong train. No time for that! So....... I say F it. I need to get on this train. I'll just pay the fine. I get on the train with no time to spare. Find the conductor and play stupid. Really stupid. "I thought I could buy a ticket ON the train". "Yeah. It's been 5 years since you could do that". "Oh." "Here's you ticket. Don't do it again."

There are more. But you are all bored by now!
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  #46  
Old 17.03.2016, 21:52
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

One of my poker mates is a copper who joined up later in life. He's cool and tells us of his experiences. Younger bobbies can be keen at their job, on the other hand, dealing with lunatics on the road all day can make you have a bad day now and again.
I just got back from a couple of months in Saudi and I definitely prefer strict traffic rules here to anything goes over there, felt like I was in a Mario kart game.
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Old 17.03.2016, 23:02
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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I was all ready to tell my story of the x numbers of times that I have been "let off" of tickets. But now I'm not sure....

Ok... Basically I agree with you. The difference in my case is that I don't expect to be left off. Though I've grateful when I am.

There have been three instances in less than three months where I have been left off.

1. I was sitting at a red light, on the phone. There is knock on my window. It is a police man. "Oh shit", were the exact words out of my mouth. I opened the window and said "I'm sorry. It's an emergency". He said "someone headed to the hospital?" "No, sir"... "Then get off the phone and next time we won't even be talking about it". He had to tell me to get off the phone as I still had the thing stuck to my ear.

2. It's a Sunday. It has been snowing. I'm just going to run quickly down the train station to grab whatever it was I had forgotten. Probably milk for my cappuccino. There is about 10 cm of snow on my car. I wipe off the windows, the mirrors and the lights. I'm only going quickly down to the train station remember! I pull into the parking lot and there is a police van coming at me, in MY lane! (what's he thinking!!). Ok. I need to stop.
Open my window, I have snow on my car & I forgot my lights (eek!) "but officer, I live right up there. I'm only going to grab some milk". Officer says "do you know that most accidents happen with in 2km of one's home>".... "Funny. The only accident I've ever had happened at the end of my road"... He was not amused but let me go.

3. I have a meeting in Milan. I go to the train station 20 mins before the train leaves. That's enough time right? Only one line open. Current client clearly has serious issues. Finally get to the ticket counter. Train is sold out. WHAT??? I've never heard of such a thing. Call every one in panic. Next train arrives too late. Friend tells me. Buy a ticket for the next train then pretend you got on the wrong train. No time for that! So....... I say F it. I need to get on this train. I'll just pay the fine. I get on the train with no time to spare. Find the conductor and play stupid. Really stupid. "I thought I could buy a ticket ON the train". "Yeah. It's been 5 years since you could do that". "Oh." "Here's you ticket. Don't do it again."

There are more. But you are all bored by now!
I've had a few of those myself, although not with cops (those speed photoboxes aren't very friendly, thank you very much!). My specialty has been the SBB, until I saw the light and got a GA.

As you specified, it's all about being grateful and not acting as if you're entitled to special treatment, and accepting one's fate gracefully when it doesn't work out. The lady in question was more about how inflexible the Swiss cops were and how different it would have been in France, UK, US... Because of course, only in Switzerland do cops care if you make an illegal u-turn.
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  #48  
Old 18.03.2016, 08:24
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

A friend of mine is a policeman here. I've asked him about why the hard crackdowns happen on seemingly minor things and how they seem to make a point of being heartless and not understanding at all. He doesn't really know, but he has an interesting theory. I'll paraphrase.

Basically, waybackthen, Switzerland was a collection of small village. The large urban sprawls with hundreds of thousands of people is a new thing. And the fact that the village cop lives in a different village is also quite new. So the Swiss way of policing was built on a small town mentality, on the basis of everyone knows everyone.

It was easy to just let something slide back then. After all, wasn't it Hans from the Stammtisch who drove just 10km/h too fast. Everyone knows Hans, he's a good guy. And so what if Mayor Müller parks his car right next to the parking lot, just a bit closer to his office? Mayor Müller is the kind of guy always donating so much to the church. Surely, he's not a bad person.

You could make this case for everyone in the village. Frau Meier once made that gorgeous cake and little Thomas Schmid is always helping old woman Frei cross the road.

So that's why, my friend guesses, all police recruits are explicitly told that they're to crack down hard on people, even if it's their closest friend or family member. They're to let nothing slide because a crime's still a crime and Hans from the Stammtisch's 10km/h are still 10km/h, regardless of whether he paid for Zweifel Chips that one time.

Of course, he says, they let slide many things. Sometimes, a stoner walks by, happily smoking away and they let him. Sometimes, people in cars are on the phone and they think nothing of it as they're stopped at a red light.

tl;dr: My friend who's a cop theorizes that the lack of discretion comes from the fact that everyone knew everyone when the Swiss policing system was built and therefore cops are encouraged to crack down hard on everyone.
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  #49  
Old 18.03.2016, 09:16
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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Are you hankering after a groan?

Speedos should never show less than the actual speed. Mine with newish summer tyres shows *exactly the same* as the GPS, within the boundaries of accurately reading a speedo. If my speedo says 140 then I'm doing 140. 10% on 140 would be 14 kmh wouldn't it? So 140 would be showing as 154. I've driven some cars like that but not many.
In my experience of my own cars plus any number of hire cars this is precision is rare. 5% over I would say is typical.
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Old 18.03.2016, 09:30
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

The other issue with discretion is experience. Officers with less experience are less likely to use discretion or even consider using it as this can open them up to problems, complaints, abuse. The more experienced officers have more of a feel when discretion is suitable, required, appropriate etc. Going back to the Stammtisch scenario, it is much clearer to teach new officers - no matter how much life experience, to apply the law equally and "without fear or favour". Discretion comes much much later and only in rare circumstances.
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  #51  
Old 18.03.2016, 09:43
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

As a mother who's experienced infants with car sickness, I still think fining a woman who is disposing of a plastic bag full of vomit, having looked after a sick child in the car is over-zealous. She deserved a break.

Unfeeling policeman.
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Old 18.03.2016, 09:57
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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The other issue with discretion is experience. Officers with less experience are less likely to use discretion or even consider using it as this can open them up to problems, complaints, abuse. The more experienced officers have more of a feel when discretion is suitable, required, appropriate etc. Going back to the Stammtisch scenario, it is much clearer to teach new officers - no matter how much life experience, to apply the law equally and "without fear or favour". Discretion comes much much later and only in rare circumstances.
Great notion and valid pretty much for all situations where adherence to rules offer exceptions. I wonder how different is is in a place where the same exact adherence to rules also figures as one of the most respected, culturally endorsed priority.

Love the comment you made, btw. Thanks.
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  #53  
Old 18.03.2016, 10:12
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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So I guess my question is, do the police have any discretion? have you had a nice experience with police using their discretion when you were technically in the wrong? I'd love to hear those stories so that my faith in the police can be restored.
Frankly, I have never given them any opportunity, but I am pretty sure they would show me the same attitude. In CH.
Back home, yes, I had pleasant surprises and not as pleasant too - I was fined for parking in the wrong place when in fact it wasn't the case. I refused to pay the fine so we ended up in court ..... the judge was so bored and pissed off at their stupidity that everything was settled in 10 minutes (in my favour)..Now I am laughing when I remember because I was only 20 at that time and went there completely unprepared, I had no idea about the procedures.
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Old 18.03.2016, 10:56
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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As a mother who's experienced infants with car sickness, I still think fining a woman who is disposing of a plastic bag full of vomit, having looked after a sick child in the car is over-zealous. She deserved a break.

Unfeeling policeman.
The car blocked the view for other drivers, they had difficulty seeing if pedestrians wanted to cross. This applies particularly for small persons espcially children; just imagine what could have happened if a child had darted across the pedestrian strip - seeing it approach drivers would have been warned but not with OPs car blocking their view.

Perhaps she could have gotten off the hook had she driven off as soon as doable. But leaving the car made it parking, a clear cut case.

I find it bigot-ish to expect special rights for a mother with a child in the car who, by her actions, put other people's children in danger. If it made any difference at all it should make the offense more serious instead.
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Old 18.03.2016, 11:02
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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Is it a very new car?
Perhaps things have changed.
or is it a Swiss made car
FWIW, my car's speedo is very close to the GPS reading as well. It might be 1-2km/h under, but it certainly isn't 10% under.
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Old 18.03.2016, 13:37
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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Are you hankering after a groan?

Speedos should never show less than the actual speed. Mine with newish summer tyres shows *exactly the same* as the GPS, within the boundaries of accurately reading a speedo. If my speedo says 140 then I'm doing 140. 10% on 140 would be 14 kmh wouldn't it? So 140 would be showing as 154. I've driven some cars like that but not many.
All speedos are over-estimated. Mine is about 10%. Uk law for example is speedo must never read less than real speed, but can read 10% +6.25mph over. Driving at 120 it can show 138, obviously illegal here in CH! Different wheel/tyre size can also change the reading.
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Old 18.03.2016, 13:56
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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FWIW, my car's speedo is very close to the GPS reading as well. It might be 1-2km/h under, but it certainly isn't 10% under.
I was going through the village at 50 according to my speedo and the temporary speed machine (smily face thingy that flashes your speed or says "slow down") came up with a smiley and 43.

Seems like mine is more like 10% which now I know means I can go 55 in the 50 zone and still not be speeding.

Regarding the OP original question:- When I first moved to Zurich my wife ran across the road on a very quiet Sunday morning (no traffic) for her morning jog only to be stopped by the police and told that there was an underpass. They let her off with a warning but said "next time ...."
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Old 18.03.2016, 13:56
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

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The car blocked the view for other drivers, they had difficulty seeing if pedestrians wanted to cross. This applies particularly for small persons espcially children; just imagine what could have happened if a child had darted across the pedestrian strip - seeing it approach drivers would have been warned but not with OPs car blocking their view.

Perhaps she could have gotten off the hook had she driven off as soon as doable. But leaving the car made it parking, a clear cut case.

I find it bigot-ish to expect special rights for a mother with a child in the car who, by her actions, put other people's children in danger. If it made any difference at all it should make the offense more serious instead.
I re-read OP's first post in which she mentioned a yellow line. I assumed this is just a no-parking zone. I saw no reference to a pedestrian crossing (and admittedly am not yet familiar with all the street markings). Yes, parking on or near to a pedestrian crossing is dangerous - though the French don't seem to care much - and I always warn the children about stepping out in front of a parked car.
However, other people have expressed sympathy for the OP without you jumping down their necks, so I guess this is just a display of male solidarity.
Which is a positive thing too.
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Old 18.03.2016, 14:29
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

Would it have helped if she put her hazard lights on?
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Old 18.03.2016, 14:34
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Re: Does discretion exist in switzerland?

I was absolutely no where near a pedestrian crossing. I was pulled up in front of cars who were parked in blue zones, on the side of the road.

I also do not expect any special treatment.
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