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  #61  
Old 26.10.2016, 15:56
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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Well, now that you mention it - some jurisdictions do add so-called sugar taxes, there have been attempts to ban large sodas, and similar moves. So while it's not an overall "food ban", there are definitely moves in the direction of treating some of the crap food on our planet in the same negative light as tobacco.
Yes, and I fully agree with those sugar-taxing initiatives. The UK was pushing to do something similar, but ended up agreeing on a very watered down policy so as not to offend the food company giants.

However, there is zero doubt that of all legal habits in this world, smoking is by far the most useless and disposable. Even small amounts inhaled are directly harmful to health.

In comparison alcohol, while responsible for a huge number of problems in the world due to mis-use, can be enjoyed in moderate amounts with no ill effects.

I would fully support an outright public ban of cigarettes tomorrow, with e-cigarettes the only legal method of smoking anywhere in public.
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Old 26.10.2016, 15:57
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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To be fair, I can't think of any country around the globe where you get a train from the airport to the main city's railway station and expect to be hit with nature and mountain air.

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But a fairly clean non-stinking railway station would be a start.

Visitors from abroad always seem to remark on it.
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:04
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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But a fairly clean non-stinking railway station would be a start.

Visitors from abroad always seem to remark on it.
I wonder if finally banning smoking on trains (which I clearly remember) push people here on hogging station spaces, platforms and bus stops. Revenge. If somebody's addiction pollutes other people's space, and legislature and political will is weak, it doesn't really sell a community as intelligent.
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:09
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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Visitors from abroad always seem to remark on it.
And yet I've heard nothing but good stuff from visitors to Zurich. How clean it is. "Ooh look at the guy mopping the escalator" "Ooh, you don't get much litter/graffiti/piss-heads/beggars"

It's all subjective. Your visitors might not travel that much or any of a dozen reasons they think it's appropriate to count how many people are smoking on a railway platform.

I'm not defending smoking (I don't like it either), I'm just gobsmacked at the utter loss of perspective and disproportionate comments on here.

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Revenge. If somebody's addiction pollutes other people's space, and legislature and political will is weak, it doesn't really sell a community as intelligent.
"Revenge"? Seriously?
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:14
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

From a practical perspective I don't see an outright ban happening - even without a tobacco lobby I don't see the Swiss voting for criminalising tobacco products. One single picture of an Alpenzeller without his pipe, or a Luzerner without his Sonntagskrumme and a referendum would suddenly become an attack on Swiss culture (the surest way to defeat any referendum). There is also the "We have too many laws as it is" counterargument.

Similarly, an initiative to massively increase taxes on tobacco products (such as in Canada) would immediately motivate the "We pay too much tax already!" block, even if they don't happen to be smokers.

A PR campaign, sending the message "How about using the designated areas, it's only a small token of consideration and a good habit anyway. And if there isn't a designated area, go find one." That might work. Worth a try.
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  #66  
Old 26.10.2016, 16:14
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

Yep, I was gobsmacked finding out smoking was allowed here on public transport decades after civilized placed realized how unintelligent it was.
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:18
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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Yep, I was gobsmacked finding out smoking was allowed here on public transport decades after civilized placed realized how unintelligent it was.
Decades? Really, decades after "civilised" places?
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:20
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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A PR campaign, sending the message "How about using the designated areas, it's only a small token of consideration and a good habit anyway. And if there isn't a designated area, go find one." That might work. Worth a try.
I'm agree.

I also do think it is a shame that somebody festively puffing out of their historical pipe in their own house on Sunday gets mushed together with the idea of large public areas that should be protected for all. Nobody should yank the apparently culturally worthy symbol out of the Appenzellerer's grampa's mouth (well, hope his grandkids do). While careless urban smokers might get a message. The simplistic cerebral shortcuts when misinterpreting political initiatives and how much it influences, annoys me.
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:30
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

Finally!! The Anti Smoking thread of 2016!!

I've been waiting for this all Summer. I was actually surprised no one piped up about sitting on a terrace and having smoke blown in their faces.

And how they coughed their lungs out having had a wiff of smoke on the top of a mountain last May. And they may have some terrible disease!!

And the smelly hair and clothes. Get over it, pollution comes in all smells. Do you really think that your clothes only smell of ciggie smoke? After being in an aerated environment for five minutes? Just because you passed by a smoker?!! Pull the other one, it's got bic lighters attached!!

Live with it, smoking is a way of life. As is not smoking. Do us smokers complain because someone makes a fuss waving their arms around like a demon? Making a scene. Making us out as mass murderers?

No, we just get on enjoying our lives and our liberty to smoke. Without being rude. Which, it seems, non smokers are becoming. And it seems that the only complaints i have seen or read about are Expats, especially North Americans. The Swiss just get on with it.

And you know, all the smokers i know are very much in tune with when and where not to smoke. We are polite.

Last edited by Patsycat; 26.10.2016 at 16:53.
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:33
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

Decades. And the studies conducted since then are pretty easy to find, come with overall drop of nicotine consumption, lower incidence of coronary disease, premies and lower birthrates. That seemed to be the evidence for bans carried out already for public spaces, public transport, school and hosp premises, work places in general. It probably saves a lot of healthcare budget, too. Again - public transport and public spaces. Whatever people do at home should be their own responsibility, imho. So governments had different views on "disproportion" and "loss of perspective" and it seems to be overall working out.
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:37
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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Richterwil does. Waedenswil doesn't. Two Gemeindes next to each other.

So yes, the rules appear to be local, and inconsistent.
IIRC you had Wädi as your location not too long ago, in which case you should be well aware that Kanton Zürich has had regulations that cover both Gemeinde for about ten years.

So how long ago is that Wädi incident?
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:43
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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Decades. And the studies conducted since then are pretty easy to find, come with overall drop of nicotine consumption, lower incidence of coronary disease, premies and lower birthrates. That seemed to be the evidence for bans carried out already for public spaces, public transport, school and hosp premises, work places in general. It probably saves a lot of healthcare budget, too. Again - public transport and public spaces. Whatever people do at home should be their own responsibility, imho. So governments had different views on "disproportion" and "loss of perspective" and it seems to be overall working out.
The governments' legal initiatives are not the ones with the loss of perspective, though, are they? And that's the bit that is causing people to lose their minds on here. Some of the utterly ridiculous outbursts on here are where the perspective is off the scale.

The studies you are talking about presumably are all about those countries who have banned smoking in the open air, compared with Switzerland which is still prehistorically puffing on cigarettes in the street? To compare like with like, you understand.
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:46
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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And yet I've heard nothing but good stuff from visitors to Zurich. How clean it is. "Ooh look at the guy mopping the escalator" "Ooh, you don't get much litter/graffiti/piss-heads/beggars"


They're not counting smokers. Seriously do you think that?

Is it really that difficult for you to imagine that people can get of a train and, perhaps whilst waiting for the next train, think, "Hmm, this place is more dirty and smelly than I imagined it would be?"

And as for a lack of graffiti? Seriously?

Where are your visitors coming from?

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I'm not defending smoking (I don't like it either), I'm just gobsmacked at the utter loss of perspective and disproportionate comments on here.
Yes, you're right, I'll tell my visitors to shut the f**k up next time like Swiss people on this forum do.
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:48
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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IIRC you had Wädi as your location not too long ago, in which case you should be well aware that Kanton Zürich has had regulations that cover both Gemeinde for about ten years.

So how long ago is that Wädi incident?
Not one incident - many. Last was the Spring term.

Do you have a link to the regulations so I can stuff it in those smug peoples' faces?
(in the same way they treated my family members when they complained).
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:50
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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Do you have a link to the regulations so I can stuff it in those smug peoples' faces?
(in the same way they treated my family members when they complained).
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kanton+z%C3%BCrich+rauchen+gesetz
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  #76  
Old 26.10.2016, 16:52
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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Probably why they don't let Americans vote here, violence seems to be an answer for most things, but it isn't really
While a sense of humour (uh oh, British spelling - still think I'm American?) isn't necessary on this forum, it does help.
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Old 26.10.2016, 16:56
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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They're not counting smokers. Seriously do you think that?
You said your visitors "always" remark on it so it seems to be some kind of "spot the smoker" kind of thing you had going on?

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Is it really that difficult for you to imagine that people can get of a train and, perhaps whilst waiting for the next train, think, "Hmm, this place is more dirty and smelly than I imagined it would be?"
No, absolutely not difficult to imagine but it's all things to all people. Some people take somewhere at face value and treat a railway station in the middle of Europe carrying millions of passengers each year for what it is. Others will be running a white gloved hand down a handrail and tutting.

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And as for a lack of graffiti? Seriously?

Where are your visitors coming from?
Doesn't matter, the point is it's all subjective and anecdotal.


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Yes, you're right, I'll tell my visitors to shut the f**k up next time like Swiss people on this forum do.
I didn't advocate that, but you go right ahead.
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Old 26.10.2016, 17:07
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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Finally!! The Anti Smoking thread of 2016!!
Yes, here it comes...

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And the smelly hair and clothes. Get over it, pollution comes in all smells. Do you really think that your clothes only smell of ciggie smoke? After being in an aerated environment for five minutes? Just because you passed by a smoker?!! Pull the other one, it's got bic lighters attached!!
Hello.... It's not _our_ clothes or hair that smell, it's _your_ clothes and hair that smell... from a mile away... really, really bad.

It's a fact that smokers are just in denial of how bad they smell, and how strong the smell is compared to anything else - to someone that doesn't smoke. Of course if you can't smell yourself any more after living with the stink for years

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Live with it, smoking is a way of life.
No it's not. We weren't born with a ciggarete in our mouth not required to have one to live

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As is not smoking. Do us smokers complain because someone makes a fuss waving their arms around like a demon? Making a scene. Making us out as mass murderers?
Well, aren't you? (both complaining and mass murdering)? Second hand smoking just as bad as direct smoking so no point to claim innocence

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No, we just get on enjoying our lives and our liberty to smoke. Without being rude.
Well, you are rude when you smoke next to other people.

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Which, it seems, non smokers are becoming. And it seems that the only complaints i have seen or read about are Expats. The Swiss just get on with it.
Well, if it takes someone from outside to get your head out of your a_se then I don't see what's wrong with that
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And you know, all the smokers i know are very much in tune with when and where not to smoke.
No they're not. Not the ones I see every day in train stations, terraces, streets, next to office doors, home balconies, etc, etc, etc. Each of those places means blowing smoke to someone else, which IS NOT OK
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  #79  
Old 26.10.2016, 17:07
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

There are people who lose minds here, when the picture of this country isn't portrayed as absolutely perfect. Let's celebrate the lack of grafitti and hoboes to stop talking about how accepted tobacco pollution and correspondent irrational behavior is here? Who's off the scale?

We can actually authorize ourselves to dislike something that has elsewhere been already fixed. It is ok.

I actually think the only measures aside of bans that could work would be pushing smoking into the "uncool, addicted, expensive for all of us" behavior. Or school campaigns, which aren't really done here as far as I know. Loads of edu and medical staff smoke here.
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Old 26.10.2016, 17:10
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Re: Cigarette Smoke

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There are people who lose minds here, when the picture of this country isn't portrayed as absolutely REALISTIC
ftfy.

It's Zurich FFS, not Mordor.
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