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Old 30.10.2016, 16:01
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Folks aren't simple.

I wouldn't say "reasonable" I would say "plausible". Reasonable would be to stop for a moment and evaluate the situation, keeping track of just who's bias is putting a spin on things.

You might be right about the word. English is not my first language although I pride myself on having a really good grasp of it. BTW, I only corrected your spelling of "resplendent" to annoy you. These days I am trying to be less like myself and more like others I see around me who are playing below the belt. You just happened to give me an opportunity. Otherwise you sound like a nice guy
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  #302  
Old 30.10.2016, 16:03
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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No I am not. I work hard and I do not want to take BS from people who make one or another assumption about my finances. Just give me whatever I want.
There is that circularity thing again.

You object to someone making an assumption about you based on what they think your income level is, but have no reservation making exactly the same move about the other person... presumably your "working hard" and level of education hinder you from seeing how assymetric this position is: mine don't.

"Just give me whatever I want."? Wow!
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  #303  
Old 30.10.2016, 16:05
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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I don't go to those kind of shops because I can't afford them.

I'm not educated to CEO level, you see.
I cannot afford Prada, Gucci or Balenciaga either (well not on a regular basis) but if I decide to splurge on an item in one of those stores I'd expect to be treated properly. (I would probably buy one of the lesser known but more progressive labels but I am naming them because these are more well-known.Yes I am a bit of a snob)
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Old 30.10.2016, 16:05
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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I do agree almost with all of your points including the bit about the suicide rate statistics being probably skewed by other factors.

I want to also mention that if you belong to the group of immigrants who are in Group B that are also immediately recognized as not Western or West European you are most likely to be perceived as someone who is uneducated and who works in so-called 'blue collar' jobs. So anything you do will be seen behind the curtain of prejudice.

I and my husband are from the same country but he looks quite European and he speaks pretty much no German. So when he speaks English, he is treated immediately as an "educated" foreigner, whereas because I speak German fairly well although still like an "ausländer, people assume I must be an uneducated foreigner even though I am more educated than my husband and speak English much better too! I believe any person regardless of their income level deserves to be treated well when they are buying coffee with their hard-earned money from someone who, after all, only works the cash desk at Migros. (so, let's be honest, is not educated to the CEO level) therefore, of course, it gets really annoying when I am constantly looked down on by people who probably cannot afford the things they are selling to me.
Everybody is a snob here. It is a way of existence, really.

But - I would disagree with your explanation of who deserves to be treated correctly and who not. In that logic blue collar newcomers do not also deserve decency? Or would be on par with their claims as the cashiers?

What you wrote about is a matter of manners, and people either have them or not. How much do manners have to do with salary and social class, I don't think they do. I think they are skills that develop, more exposure, more thinking, more manners.

Manners then might have something to do with succeptibility to unintelligent stereotypes - like racism, prejudice, bias. There are some strong biases, that cross all sorts of barriers too easily, and there are some cultures who do not mind them, or, who do not actively fight against them.

I have had so many surprised peeps when they found out that blondes can think, and that not all Eastern European girls are here on some Au-Pairing gig, frantically looking for their local men to marry.

I also think - the intensity with which people resent some behavior trait more likely depends not on the actual frequence of that behavior, but on how protected/helpless they feel. Maybe if you cannot shrug stuff off, easily, figure out a way to feel less helpless.
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  #305  
Old 30.10.2016, 16:08
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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I know it sounds petty but it does give me some satisfaction when I remember how his incompetence was ignored while everything I did was constantly criticised.
If you had a real career you wouldn't spend your sundays complaining on the Internet


You would have a good time... and that's not in front of a computer.
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  #306  
Old 30.10.2016, 16:10
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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"Just give me whatever I want."? Wow!
You are now picking my words with tweezers and commenting on them as it suits you.

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. Otherwise you sound like a nice guy
I take this back.

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... from seeing how assymetric this position is: mine don't.
Asymmetric.
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Old 30.10.2016, 16:10
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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.. I do not want to take BS from people who make one or another assumption about my finances.
Seems to me you, too, are making assumptions about their finances, and perhaps also about their education levels and other skills. Many people who work in jobs involving service of all kinds (and "dirty" work), are foreign.

I say this about Switzerland, but it is true in many countries. At least in part, this has to do with the immigrant's working permit status, partly with his or her language skills, and in part with the fact that those immigrants obtained qualifications in their home country which are not automatically recognised in the new country.

Factors like that explain why a particular man was, in his home country, a professor of linguistics while here is he working as a taxi driver, and the foreign engineer who is working as a supermarket teller.

Besides the education, it is also a question of self-management. I know a frugal couple in Switzerland, both unqualified, both working very hard in several jobs, who can afford to go on holiday several times a year, though one would never assume that when seeing them in their overalls.

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Just give me whatever I want.
Sorry, no, life doesn't work like that.
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  #308  
Old 30.10.2016, 16:12
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If you had a real career you wouldn't spend your sundays complaining on the Internet


You would have a good time... and that's not in front of a computer.
This sort of answer if something we all do from time to time but it is not very clever, really. Try something else. Also, you are here on a Sunday aren't you?

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Sorry, no, life doesn't work like that.
Why? I am only referring to sales assistant who think they can treat people according to their presumptions. I think it works exactly like that. "Just give me the damn bag, sweater or whatever it is that I am asking for" and we will talk if I cannot pay.

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Everybody is a snob here. It is a way of existence, really.

But - I would disagree with your explanation of who deserves to be treated correctly and who not. In that logic blue collar newcomers do not also deserve decency? Or would be on par with their claims as the cashiers?
You are very quick to misjudge me: See my comment from a later post:

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I believe any person regardless of their income level deserves to be treated well when they are buying coffee with their hard-earned money from someone who, after all, only works the cash desk at Migros. .
Anyway, since it is a sunny Sunday and to prove that I have a career and am able to enjoy my off time I am off to a farm now.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 31.10.2016 at 16:08. Reason: merging consecutive replies; please use multi-quote
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Old 30.10.2016, 16:21
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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You might be right about the word. English is not my first language although I pride myself on having a really good grasp of it. BTW, I only corrected your spelling of "resplendent" to annoy you. These days I am trying to be less like myself and more like others I see around me who are playing below the belt. You just happened to give me an opportunity. Otherwise you sound like a nice guy
If you think that "likes" or such facebook rubbish have the slightest effect on me I submit that you may be confusing me with some different "nice" person.

I could have picked up on your word use or spelling in previous posts, but frankly I was trying to figure out what it was that you were trying to say. I also don't tend to nit pick about spelling or sentence structure - despite a reasonably extensive education in the classics, philosophy, and literature, you would (all) be surprised at how often I have to look up the spelling of words like "friend", "perceive", or "excessive", or stare at an arrangement of words and simply cannot tell if they are in some semblance of order.

You'll have to go a bit farther than be right when I've made a mistake to annoy me (as questionable as that particular motivation seems to me).

What you pride yourself on, how much you wish to be like yourself, and a willingness to hit below the belt are your (questionable) priviledge.

I for one am part monster, part something else. Insofar as I can I try to be self aware enough to recognise Caliban in the mirror.
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Old 30.10.2016, 16:21
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Why? I am only referring to sales assistant who think they can treat people according to their presumptions. I think it works exactly like that. "Just give me the damn bag, sweater or whatever it is that I am asking for" and we will talk if I cannot pay.
Where did you learn this attitude?

Did your grandmother teach you that? Would she approve of it?

If your cousin, son, or mother-in-law worked as a sales assistant, would be you be happy for them to have customers approach them in this manner? Do you think they would come home after a day's work, having met customers with this attitude, feeling they had been treated respectfully and with good manners?
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  #311  
Old 30.10.2016, 16:22
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Seeing all the rudeness I encounter getting into buses (especially when I had to go around with a double stroller when my children were younger) I actually considered not taking the bus and always getting around by car. It is a good way to avoid daily annoyances as I must admit the motorists here are much nicer than my country.
My twins and I spent their first 18mo travelling almost exclusively with a double stroller, by public transport. I can count the disagreeable encounters we had on the thumbs of one hand.

But that was mostly in Glarus, with only occasional forays to Schwyz, Bern, Neuchatel etc. Zürich really is another planet in some ways, isn't it?

For me the appeal of public transport with small children is that I can actually be fully present with them... not just sitting there with eyes fixed straight ahead trying to project these strictly verbal forms of comfort or entertainment. Kids quickly realize when they haven't got your full attention and it bothers them.
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  #312  
Old 30.10.2016, 16:26
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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No I am not. I work hard and I do not want to take BS from people who make one or another assumption about my finances. Just give me whatever I want.

Oh and do not tell me you don't think it is not hilarious to see girls in expensive shops thinking they are better than you just because they are serving the rich tourists.

By the way, From your last two comments I see that I am right about my observations about you: The bitterness of some other forum members seem to be rubbing on you.
Ahhh, I know that feeling. That's something inherently wrong with sale assistants in high-end shops (though my husband jokes that they're instructed to act arrogant, the more arrogant they act the more you want to buy that s**t lol) and I experienced that even back home, where I really sound educated and not foreign.
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  #313  
Old 30.10.2016, 16:27
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Where did you learn this attitude?

Did your grandmother teach you that? Would she approve of it?

If your cousin, son, or mother-in-law worked as a sales assistant, would be you be happy for them to have customers approach them in this manner? Do you think they would come home after a day's work, having met customers with this attitude, feeling they had been treated respectfully and with good manners?
OK now you are taking this completely the wrong way. I am a very nice and polite person and I really do not need to be lectured by you on manners. My grandmother was a very poor woman who died without owning a fridge and who used turn off the lights to save money and I had an aunt who worked as a janitor, so no need to lecture me. I think you should read my posts again carefully to understand what I meant.
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Old 30.10.2016, 16:29
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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If you think that "likes" or such facebook rubbish have the slightest effect on me I submit that you may be confusing me with some different "nice" person.
.
I had a difficult time understanding what you meant. I am not on Facebook or any other "rubbish" social media so I don't know what you are talking about. I only "Thank" people here to fit in with the forum. I find it as childish as you probably do. Anyway, off to the farm now.
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Old 30.10.2016, 16:31
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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You are now picking my words with tweezers and commenting on them as it suits you.



I take this back.



Asymmetric.
Who has the tweezers out now?

Who else's mind do you think I could borrow to make comments with - someone who's opinion suits you? Even if I could borrow someone else's mind for a moment I wouldn't - whoever ended up with my mind probably wouldn't have a pleasant experience, and I doubt it would come back in the same condition as it left.

By the way, there is a slight chance that I deliberately wrote "Assymetric"... sometimes English is more communicative when one bends the rules.
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Old 30.10.2016, 16:33
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Y
Anyway, since it is a sunny Sunday and to prove that I have a career and am able to enjoy my off time I am off to a farm now.
Farmville?
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  #317  
Old 30.10.2016, 16:35
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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OK now you are taking this completely the wrong way. I am a very nice and polite person and I really do not need to be lectured by you on manners. My grandmother was a very poor woman who died without owning a fridge and who used turn off the lights to save money and I had an aunt who worked as a janitor, so no need to lecture me. I think you should read my posts again carefully to understand what I meant.
That I have been reading your posts, carefully, and interacting with them/you, is because I have been trying to understand what you mean, what you are about, what it is that makes you write as you do, and why you sound, to me, so dissatisfied. I'm sorry if you feel I am taking your comments the wrong way.

I see, now, that you consider yourself to be a very nice and polite person. I still wonder whether your grandmother would agree, with regard to what you write about how to conduct interactions with shop assistants.
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  #318  
Old 30.10.2016, 16:50
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Happiness is not having every decent pub closed down and converted into a Tesco Express. My brother's 'local' now is a converted florist's shop.

When was the last time you saw a Swiss bar closed down or converted? I've seen a few lying empty, but the ones that are open have a steady stream of customers.
A pity, I can't imagine UK or Ireland without their famous pubs.

I don't know if you're right about the Swiss ones, blue angel. Some of them are always empty, how they survive it's still a mystery for me.
Where I live we used to have a good bakery that got converted into other small business, I miss it but it's still good - it's not a Kiosk or whatever. So yeah, a lot of mobility here and in the right direction, I like it.
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Old 30.10.2016, 17:07
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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But - I would disagree with your explanation of who deserves to be treated correctly and who not. In that logic blue collar newcomers do not also deserve decency? Or would be on par with their claims as the cashiers?
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You are very quick to misjudge me.
I am not judging you at all, if you notice I was asking you questions, ie - wanting explanations from you, so I would not just assume. Assumptions are not clever.

Don't be so jumpy and defensive. I like your feistiness, I am not here to fight you.

Thoughts are thoughts, concepts float out here and it is fun to debate over them. To take stuff personally (while you are actually making assumptions about Migros cashiers) is silly.

I agree with you about social media and people who think they need them. Now - if you go to a farm, you will make a few members not so happy about not being able to debate, hahahahah.
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Old 30.10.2016, 17:16
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

this topic needs more flavour. Lets add some...


...meanwhile in switzerland....

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