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  #781  
Old 08.11.2016, 16:50
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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bash other places like Denmark, Croatia, Berlin, Delhi, Thailand, but for some reason, keep their mouth shut when it's Switzerland. Netherlands is in stark contrast here. The Dutch have actually rewarded an entertaining criticism on their own nation. I wonder if the author will have any success here in CH - even though he's sure to find plenty of material here to comment on. Very likely, he'd even be banned the entry.


Places or countries?


Dutch are good at pointing fingers at anything and anyone (also themselves), so no surprise :-)


And why would an entertaining post be banned? This one is still alive, isn´t it?


PS: It is called "The Netherlands" and if you want to be really precise, the Kingdom of the Netherlands (Koninkrijk der Nederlanden)
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  #782  
Old 08.11.2016, 17:10
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Places or countries?
PS: It is called "The Netherlands" and if you want to be really precise
I'll be as precise als Ik wil. Berlin, Delhi are cities whereas the other examples are countries.. so a precise reader wouldn't even care to deliberate over "places" or "The", and would instead get to the crux of the message: why are people afraid of admitting that it sucks here? Although this post is alive (big thank you to EF legends), the replies are hardly empathetic. Whereas a book on the Dutch gets published, acclaimed and is well-received by the Dutch. Do you have an example of a successful publication saying anything negative about Switzerland? What were the repercussions and reactions?
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  #783  
Old 08.11.2016, 17:18
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

Why on earth would you compare this forum with what all foreigners in Switzerland think of the country? It is not even slightly representative.


And why would you compare Dutch people with foreigners in Switzerland? Comparing apples with pears that is.


And I will not admit it sucks here as I am happy here. I have never lived in a country that "sucks" so maybe it´s me and my view on the world?
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  #784  
Old 08.11.2016, 17:23
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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why are people afraid of admitting that it sucks here? Although this post is alive (big thank you to EF legends), the replies are hardly empathetic. Whereas a book on the Dutch gets published, acclaimed and is well-received by the Dutch. Do you have an example of a successful publication saying anything negative about Switzerland? What were the repercussions and reactions?
Your question should be "Why do some people find it sucks here?"

You are making the bold assumption that if you're a foreigner you automatically think life here sucks. I have off days here same as I would anywhere but I'm not so naive to conclude that chucks the whole nation into a bucket for me and anyone else who is a foreigner.
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  #785  
Old 08.11.2016, 17:27
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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I'll be as precise als Ik wil. Berlin, Delhi are cities whereas the other examples are countries.. so a precise reader wouldn't even care to deliberate over "places" or "The", and would instead get to the crux of the message: why are people afraid of admitting that it sucks here? Although this post is alive (big thank you to EF legends), the replies are hardly empathetic. Whereas a book on the Dutch gets published, acclaimed and is well-received by the Dutch. Do you have an example of a successful publication saying anything negative about Switzerland? What were the repercussions and reactions?
You are entitled to your opinion, based on your experience. What you aren't entitled to is your own set of facts.

Switzerland doesn't suck, your experience of it makes you believe this, fair enough, but you state it as if it were a fact pretaining exclusively to the Swiss.

Perhaps you don't read many things written about Switzerland by Swiss, I would wager not that much comedy.

It is a while now, but if you were to have seen "Die Schweizermacher", and heard the Swiss reaction to it you might be of a different opinion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Swissmakers

I arrived more than a decade after the film was released. So many Swiss apologised to me about the way I was treated that I eventually had to rent it to figure out what they were on about. (Mostly because with very very few exceptions I never encountered anything other than tolerance.)

The film wasn't just made here and critical, it was also the highest grossing film here until Titanic took over. You may find it easy to believe that the take was entirely the result of only Expats going to see it, but that would have taken a Rocky Horror level of fan dedication, and if the Swiss had had an objection to it then there surely would have been a referendum on the matter in the meantime.
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  #786  
Old 08.11.2016, 17:31
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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I'm just wondering why people are so quick and confident in taking sides?
Maybe because complaining gets tiring and boring after a while, and people can grow out of it if they choose to.
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  #787  
Old 08.11.2016, 17:33
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

If it sucks, then why are you here?

Tom
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  #788  
Old 08.11.2016, 17:44
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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If it sucks, then why are you here?
Very helpful comment! In other words, you better revoke your right to complain or start packing? This just confirms so many facts - social integration is damned hard in Switzerland, confirmed by ETH doctoral studies.. and the "secondos" making it even harder, staunchly showing off their newly acquired loyalties.. basically, in line with original observation:

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Going back to the original topic: It's not so shocking that immigrants/expats/whatever term you'd want to use, find it hard to cope with a new country. That happens everywhere and is typically short lived state of frustration/depression lasting a few months. Particularly in winter months, the OP may be forgiven for venting it out a bit. Dejected mood, anti-societal thoughts, "Food tasting like plastic" are clinical symptoms for depression - beware and be kind!

That said - what's shocking though is how the expat community here finds it imperative to put on a show of best behavior, and won't publicly admit to anything said against their new homeland Brief study of other forums like inter-nations in other countries, however, shows a different picture. People are quick to (or find it comfortable enough to openly) bash other places like Denmark, Croatia, Berlin, Delhi, Thailand, but for some reason, keep their mouth shut when it's Switzerland. Netherlands is in stark contrast here. The Dutch have actually rewarded an entertaining criticism on their own nation. I wonder if the author will have any success here in CH - even though he's sure to find plenty of material here to comment on. Very likely, he'd even be banned the entry.

Regardless of whether the things observed/posted by OP are true or not, they're simply his/her experiences (s)he had here. For such a terrible life experience, fault could be on both sides. We don't know. I'm just wondering why people are so quick and confident in taking sides?
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  #789  
Old 08.11.2016, 17:46
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

and on a related note: Share the jokes about Switzerland and Swiss is very representative of the replies I observe here on EF.
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Old 08.11.2016, 17:47
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Hey guys.. me again! Relieving myself here isn't it what internet is for, besides posting unpalatable food pics?

Going back to the original topic: It's not so shocking that immigrants/expats/whatever term you'd want to use, find it hard to cope with a new country. That happens everywhere and is typically short lived state of frustration/depression lasting a few months. Particularly in winter months, the OP may be forgiven for venting it out a bit. Dejected mood, anti-societal thoughts, "Food tasting like plastic" are clinical symptoms for depression - beware and be kind!

That said - what's shocking though is how the expat community here finds it imperative to put on a show of best behavior, and won't publicly admit to anything said against their new homeland Brief study of other forums like inter-nations in other countries, however, shows a different picture. People are quick to (or find it comfortable enough to openly) bash other places like Denmark, Croatia, Berlin, Delhi, Thailand, but for some reason, keep their mouth shut when it's Switzerland. Netherlands is in stark contrast here. The Dutch have actually rewarded an entertaining criticism on their own nation. I wonder if the author will have any success here in CH - even though he's sure to find plenty of material here to comment on. Very likely, he'd even be banned the entry.

Regardless of whether the things observed/posted by OP are true or not, they're simply his/her experiences (s)he had here. For such a terrible life experience, fault could be on both sides. We don't know. I'm just wondering why people are so quick and confident in taking sides?
Wait, are you JohltaVontra, who prior was bicycle?
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Old 08.11.2016, 18:02
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Very helpful comment! In other words, you better revoke your right to complain or start packing? This just confirms so many facts - social integration is damned hard in Switzerland, confirmed by ETH doctoral studies.. and the "secondos" making it even harder, staunchly showing off their newly acquired loyalties.. basically, in line with original observation:


See, it is the way you interpret this?


I see this as a question why you want to stay here despite your being totally not happy. Not as a "pack your stuff and move"
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  #792  
Old 08.11.2016, 18:25
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Although this post is alive (big thank you to EF legends), the replies are hardly empathetic.
OP is looking neither for empathy nor for advice or help, not even when he came back. And that's exactly what he got.
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Old 08.11.2016, 18:31
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Very helpful comment! In other words, you better revoke your right to complain or start packing? This just confirms so many facts - social integration is damned hard in Switzerland, confirmed by ETH doctoral studies.. and the "secondos" making it even harder, staunchly showing off their newly acquired loyalties.. basically, in line with original observation:
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See, it is the way you interpret this?


I see this as a question why you want to stay here despite your being totally not happy. Not as a "pack your stuff and move"
That's the bit I don't understand either. I know people who just couldn't stand it here so they upped sticks with their families and headed either back to their home country or tried out somewhere new.

Two families are actually back (one was minus the kids who elected to stay in their universities in the UK) because they missed the place. Another (single) person is regretting her decision but is stuck back in her home country because she can't afford the move, and even if she could, she jacked in her job and therefore her permit so has no legal right to move back.

Switzerland is all things to all people. Integration is difficult but, then again, I imagine integration is hard anywhere. I can't imagine me sliding into a cosy community life somewhere in, say, Alabama as I'm a leftie atheist. Probably why I slot right in here...
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  #794  
Old 09.11.2016, 11:09
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

Just dedicated good 40-50 mins to reading (almost) all past posts in this thread, and I must say, I'm in LOVE with the OP Sent his a PM, but no reply yet He is a bit frustrated, simpleton, most likely getting a lower end of the bargain in the capitalistic system - and from experience, such people are awesome in bed. Most of what he (I hope, it's a male, but at this stage, it doesn't matter) writes is illogical crap, but just the way he says is highly alluring and charming. Kinda like how Trump is alluring (to women).

That said, I must admit about the staring - especially by superbly ugly, old, highly-likely Swiss ladies; as seen below. What's the deal with that really? I'm just walking/taking a tram to my work, minding my own business. The most 'crime' I can be said to have committed is being 'non-white'. WTF do they want/imply by staring? Next time, I'm gonna confront and ask. Would these be appropriate German words?
  • warum starrend Sie mich an?
  • Haben Sie etwas zu sagen?
  • Wie kann ich helfen? Bitte aufhören zu gehen.

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Old 09.11.2016, 11:34
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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That said, I must admit about the staring - especially by superbly ugly, old, highly-likely Swiss ladies; as seen below. What's the deal with that really? I'm just walking/taking a tram to my work, minding my own business. The most 'crime' I can be said to have committed is being 'non-white'. WTF do they want/imply by staring? Next time, I'm gonna confront and ask. Would these be appropriate German words?
  • warum starrend Sie mich an?
  • Haben Sie etwas zu sagen?
  • Wie kann ich helfen? Bitte aufhören zu gehen.

Just to add a bit of balance, I'm not Swiss but often catch myself staring at someone opposite me on a tram or train or bus basically because that's where my eyes come to rest whilst I'm lost in thought. ("What am I going to cook for dinner?" "Did I remember to follow up that email?" "Ooh, it's Bake Off/Holby City/Eastenders on TV tonight!" etc., etc.)

Sometimes the other person catches my eye which breaks me out of my reverie, or sometimes it doesn't.

Having read so many threads on here about people whinging about "the staring Swiss" I often feel bad that the person I'm staring at is going to then come and rant on EF that some Swiss bird (me) was staring at them.

If someone is staring at you, try to consider for a moment that the person behind the stare is possibly absent and is either overwhelmed with busy-ness, exhausted or just enjoying a few minutes down time.

It's not always because you are you.
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Old 09.11.2016, 11:49
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Just dedicated good 40-50 mins to reading (almost) all past posts in this thread, and I must say, I'm in LOVE with the OP Sent his a PM, but no reply yet He is a bit frustrated, simpleton, most likely getting a lower end of the bargain in the capitalistic system - and from experience, such people are awesome in bed. Most of what he (I hope, it's a male, but at this stage, it doesn't matter) writes is illogical crap, but just the way he says is highly alluring and charming. Kinda like how Trump is alluring (to women).

That said, I must admit about the staring - especially by superbly ugly, old, highly-likely Swiss ladies; as seen below. What's the deal with that really? I'm just walking/taking a tram to my work, minding my own business. The most 'crime' I can be said to have committed is being 'non-white'. WTF do they want/imply by staring? Next time, I'm gonna confront and ask. Would these be appropriate German words?
  • warum starrend Sie mich an?
  • Haben Sie etwas zu sagen?
  • Wie kann ich helfen? Bitte aufhören zu gehen.

Lol. This funny piece of opinion took some effort.

I wouldn't confront some cultural habits, tbh, since there is little chance of being understood or changing that person's behavior, and maybe why should they, anyways.

Maybe you can chant to yourself - people stare when they are bored. When they have no clue nor think they should consider - how their brainless staring makes the recipient feel. Boonies will be boonies.

I know a lot of non-staring locals who will explain this uncooth phenomenon the same way. When I asked if they mind it themselves, they shrug it off and say "rednecks".
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Old 09.11.2016, 11:51
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Maybe you can chant to yourself - people stare when they are bored. When they have no clue nor think they should consider - how their brainless staring makes the recipient feel. Boonies will be boonies.
Err... none taken...

Yours sincerely
A "boonie"
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Old 09.11.2016, 11:56
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Just to add a bit of balance....
...
If someone is staring at you, try to consider for a moment that the person behind the stare is possibly absent and is either overwhelmed with busy-ness, exhausted or just enjoying a few minutes down time.

It's not always because you are you.
Thank you, Sandgrounder. Yes.

Likewise, if someone is rude to you (or behaves in a way that you perceive as rude or unfriendly), it may not always be because you are you.

The salesperson or counter-clerk may be worried about his sick child, may be extremely stressed because her brother just called to say her teenager daughter is pregnant, she may have intense pain, his boss might just have reprimanded him, whatever. Of course, it is unprofessional if he or she passes on this stress to you as the innocent client, but we're all human, and can't always command a smooth and welcoming manner when we've just stubbed our toe, or are desperate to try to work out a budget which will allow us to save our granny.

Crediting the other person with having their own life and set of struggles can go a long way to furthering a general compassion, with which one can help oneself to feel a bit less worse about those times when someone is, truly, unkind.

Having said that, if it feels like most of the time, in most of the interactions you have, most people are unfriendly, then that is, indeed, an indicator that it might be time to take stock and see whether you could change anything about your own behaviour or manner.
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Old 09.11.2016, 12:00
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Crediting the other person with having their own life and set of struggles can go a long way to furthering a general compassion, with which one can help oneself to feel a bit less worse about those times when someone is, truly, unkind.
Compassion and tolerance seem to be in short supply in these times, though.
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Old 09.11.2016, 12:09
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

Uhm, is this thread still going on? :ROFL:
I just loove the circularity of it all.


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That said, I must admit about the staring - especially by superbly ugly, old, highly-likely Swiss ladies; as seen below. What's the deal with that really? I'm just walking/taking a tram to my work, minding my own business. The most 'crime' I can be said to have committed is being 'non-white'. WTF do they want/imply by staring? Next time, I'm gonna confront and ask. Would these be appropriate German words?
  • warum starrend Sie mich an?
  • Haben Sie etwas zu sagen?
  • Wie kann ich helfen? Bitte aufhören zu gehen.
Lol, that will go down well with the locals.
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