Where's the edit button? bugger bugger bugger

perhaps a definition of method would be useful here. excessive grading strictness, yes. humiliation? debatable... that is, if one agrees that tearing homework and name-calling qualifies as humiliation.

This is ludicrous. The proper channel for questioning authority? Question the law but do not disobey it? If noone sticks up for each other then bullies can get away with anything. If you fill in a form wrongly at the post office they'll help you correct it and not tear it up in your face. Once you think you have no authority you make it true, but if you're committed and patient enough you can well challenge authority.

In the real world not validating your ticket may get you a fine, or it may get you a withering shrug and a terse request to validate it when you change trains, which is what often happens when my friends don't validate their Zuri-cards. Would you rather they got 'Welcome to Switzerland, here's an 80 franc fine, follow the rules, dimwit'?

Swisscath's anger sounds like a perfectly reasonable response to having your child shown up by someone who should know better.

The appropriate reaction is for two adults to discuss this which sounds like exactly what is happening. Of course a pupil will find it difficult to stand up to a bullying teacher - this is a role parents should take up.

I can't put this better.

Swisscath, good luck.

Ripping up a pupil`s/child`s homework - and infront of the class is UNPROFESSIONAL - pure and simple... and bad for a child`s self-esteem. I can bet you that that sort of teacher must be dealing with other issues inside perhaps and outlets them this way on to his/her students. I can only say, SHAME on him/her. Swisscath find a way of addressing it with him, or the head or the head of the head or God - but such behaviour should not be left unaddressed I believe....

Having read this with some interest.... If i may. This is a point regularly made by Dave (who responded 2nd to the OP). Did we have the full story initially... no.

Subsequent revelations include (i) this is not an isolated incident and the teacher routinely tears up homework with no name (ii) the teacher is well respected and seems to get away with his transgressions at the school, (iii) said individual had a pair of brass ones to stand in front of dad and say he did not state that son had a salad for a brain but a mixed salad, prior to said incident on homework.

Now the way i get the swiss system any complaints have an arbitrator present when teacher and parent/s meet. The fact that point (iii) occurred and was not pursued by said parents is of concern, given that an arbitrator would have been a witness.

Point is, bar any physical abuse by the teacher, ineffective parental intervention is only going to worsen the young ones position - particularly if no other complaints are coming in from other parents.

No offense, but obviously you don't have a 12 year old or perhaps don't have any children at all.

Mine is 12 too and it is an interesting age to stay the least... they forget the most basic (dare I say stupidest) things and do the oddest things as well. It never happened when mine she younger and I am assuming she will grow out of it.

Sure, it must be absolute hell teaching those "pre-ado's", but there is no excuse for ripping up homework.

The "punishment" (and why should there be one) did not fit the "crime".

I class ineffective parental intervention as whinging down the telephone at the teacher, who will probably make a joke of it.

Effective parential intervention IMO obviously includes discussions with the teacher, recorded on paper , with others notified, involved and monitoring.

If you don't get it on paper, it means nothing.

dave

This is a new one for me, you put your signature on a CV? Why?

(sorry about the off topic comment peeps)

Exactly my point Dave. After incident on tossed salad for brains said on public record would have warranted serious disciplinary action for the teacher... had the intervention been effective.

Not knowing the full story from the OP, I have gleaned that nothing came off this which of course makes me wonder if the parents are following the proper channels or making it worse for the poor kid.

i) My son told my after I'd already written my first post that he did he ripped up the homework of other students also, so that's why it wasn't mentioned in the very beginning.

ii) The incicident with the salad for brain happened the beginning of last year. My husband dealt with the teacher by firmly telling him NEVER to call my son humiliating names in front of the class again, and put a letter of complaint in the appropriate authorities. He hasn't called him names since, so we feel that issue has been dealt with.

Anyway I went in and spoke to the teacher this morning and said I wasn't happy at his ripping up homework. He said that he did it to others also, and I said that I thought in general his way of dealing with the students forgetting to write their name on papers was OTT. He asked me what I thought he should do, and I suggested verbal warnings at first and then extra homework or something if they did it again. I said that I had taped my sons homework together and he hadn't redone it. In the end I told him I thought ripping up good work was demoralising for developing children, and destructive acts don't help. I want my kids to grow up with some toleration towards others and be respectful of their belongings etc as I teacher I would expect him to lead by example. If they regularly see this kind of behaviour from an authorative person they are going to grow up believing it's an acceptable way. I personally don't want my kids turning out like that. He listened and then said he would speak to my son later. So we will see.

Erm...that "asking him to do it all over again" (i.e. take 10 minutes to recopy and attach his name this time) is indeed the "additional bit of homework" that you yourself suggested!

How can one miss such an obvious point? The ripping it up prevents the student from submitting the same copy and avoiding the "additional bit of homework".

Hardly the actions of a "bully" teacher. Stop shielding kids from work. One day they'll have to learn (perhaps this is the time) that not always your work goes rewarded. Sometimes it is rejected because if trivialities like this one. Learn to deal with it. Let the teacher do his/her job. Support your kid, say "Yes, you have a mean teacher, but you knew the consequences and you didn't follow instructions. Do what you have been tasked to do, and I'm here for you if you need anything." What can be more confidence building for a kid than knowing their parents support them? And knowing that their parents can choose their battles?

Use your fury to combat authority in somethig that really matters: women sold into prostitution, children forced to fight in wars, people imprisoned and tortured without trial, poverty and starvation. If the world had people as furious as you fighting for these causes instead, the world would be much more beautiful!

Hi Swisscath,

How does the Pink Floyd lyric go now...

When I was at school we were given exercise books for doing homework in - and you wrote your name on the front. In the 6th form, our applied maths teacher would sometimes ask us to do homework on A4 - and I think he would normally knock a mark off for minor errors like forgetting to put the name or date at the top of the page. This was just to make sure we were working in an "exam-minded" way - as I imagine the external examiners would be less forgiving of such transgressions.

I think your son's teacher was wrong in this case and (especially if there is a history of such incidents) you should take it up with the headteacher - regardless of whether other parents have complained or not - and keep plugging away until you get a satisfactory resolution.

I am highly dismayed by some of the posters on this thread suggesting that you should not stand up to authority or that you just keep quiet about it for an easy life. I am sure if your son did the homework again, the teacher would look for another "reason" to belittle your son.

I think if you approach the school in a calm and reasoned way, your son will learn an extremely valuable lesson in dealing with conflict situations in a civilised way.

After all, if there were not people out there who question - and where necessary oppose - authority and stand up to bullies, India would still be British and we would all still be thinking that the world is flat.

FWIW (and not 100% appropriate to your situation) as soon as my little boy is old enough, I will be taking him to Aikido training as I think it helps to give one the self awareness, self esteem and self discipline to handle confrontations.

Sorry for the disjointed and multi-point post.

Cheers,
Nick

To be honest, I think a paper tearing incident far more damaging than being insulted. When I were a lad, not only was all this green fields, teachers were almost entertaining with their abuse.

They saved their particular relish for those who were extremely bright but didn't want to work; but had the annoying habit of knowing the answer, when rudely interrupted from their Top Trumps discussion at the back of the class.

These insults ranged from :
"Numpy-Head"
"Buffoon"
"Are you naturally this stupid or do you save it for me?"
"You are a waste of potential."

or my personal favourite:
"I will personally see to it that you get nowhere".
Later in life I visited this washed-up teacher to discuss further.

Teacher have years of experience in this stuff and hone their rhetoric to a fine edge:
"You ! Yes, you laddie !"
"Get your feet of the chair and pay attention!"
"Do you do that in your own home ???"
<insert irrelevant answer to be ignored here>
"Then you don't do it here !!"

Oh, Mr Chips.

dave

Ah, I missed the update. I stand corrected then, I suppose.

Swisscath, I wish the world's bigger causes had more fighters like you.

What I'm trying to say, Swisscath's previous intervention has already put a crosshair her son's forehead. Hence, she's partly to be blamed unless Swisscath willing to tell us how many other times has she confronted the teacher about other matters.

There's always a proper channel and procedure to do things and confronting the school teacher over little matters won't do anything good apart from worsen the relationship.

$

Unlike you, I don't have the luxury of an "edit" button

Knocking a mark off would have been far more appropriate. And I think teaching a child to sit back and accept bullying is the worst possible example to set.

Rgds,
Nick

I don't have time today to formulate a detailed reply as I am rocking the Gallen, but suffice to say you are talking complete ****.

dave

If it would have needed only 10 mins to redo it I would have made him do it. (though I would have written a note to the teacher and complained about tearing his work up) But as it was creating geometric shapes with his compass and ruler, it would have taken him over an hour again to do it, plus he had a lot of other homework to do. And I'm not making excuses. 12 going on 13 year olds are in a emotional state enough as it is with all their hormones kicking in,,,if you had children that age you would know....... I don't need the extra hassle of his teacher demoralising him.

I don't try an overprotect him when he complains about something that he doesn't like in class. If he's done something wrong and ends up with extra work then I tell him it was his fault for acting out and he has to get on and deal with it, and that hopefully he'll have learned a lesson and won't do it again.

I only react when my children have been treated unfairly and don't feel able to stand up for themselves.

The proper channel was to take the matter up with the school - starting with the teacher concerned. Swisscath has done just that.

If it was my son I would have done just the same - though I may have started with the headmaster.

And by the way, if the boy was struggling with geometry I would have to wonder at the competence of the teacher with this subject.

Cheers,
Nick

Before going to the school to complain about this, I would check with your son first if he wants you to intervene or not.