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09.01.2007, 16:46
| | Junior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Germany
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| | | Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland
Here's the banned thread again. Being banned twice is no good but I hope my username won't cause any problems now... I'm repeating my first message so that we can start the discussion again (unfortunately, that's all I saved)...
Hi everybody,
I’ve joined the forum yesterday but was banned the moment I wrote my very first post . The post was about my worst online shopping experience ever, which happened at a Swiss online shop - I suppose I can’t name it here, right? I was just trying to tell the (Swiss) world about how bad things have gone with this particular shop, and maybe warn some people not to buy at this place...
I learned I had been banned today, as I was trying to log on. There was only a short message saying that I was banned because of spam. I though: maybe there was a mistake, maybe they thought I was trying to sell viagra or something just because there was some links in the message... :-)
I emailed the admin and asked to be “unbanned” and received a nice message from Lob Rockster, for which I would like to thank him, really.
He told me that if I’m taking a legal action against this shop (which I actually am), I shouldn’t post things like that in an open forum. Your are right, Lob. He also told me that this kind of post wouldn’t be tolerated because “it put the forum into a position legally that we do not want”. I sort of understand that, and for that I apologize.
But my point is, where should one complain about things like that in Switzerland? I mean, where should unhappy customers tell the people who live in Switzerland to avoid buying at a particular shop?
I think there should be a place like that somewhere, where customers could tell about their experiences freely. Where you could check how a shop is being rated by their customers, what kind of complaints people have against them before buying something yourself.
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09.01.2007, 16:50
|  | Member | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Basel & Zurich
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| | | Re: The banned thread again...
.... sigh ....
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09.01.2007, 16:57
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| | | Re: The banned thread again... www.toppreise.ch
This has Dealer Ratings so next time, once your problem is solved, start looking there.
And there is only so much rope I will give you.
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09.01.2007, 16:58
| | Junior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Germany
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland
In the last message of this thread, which I was just about to reply, someone mentioned a site where you can find the top prices and rate shops and so one. So here's the reply...
This site you just mentioned is the source of all my misfortunes. That was exactly where I found the shop I hate so much. Also, I'm also starting to doubt their "independence".
Sure you can rate the shops there, but that is as much as you can do. You can't write a single sentence about your experience. How useful is that? How can you trust them?
In fact, I contacted them just before Christmas and told them about the problem with the shop, that I had paid for something which I did not get and that the shop wouldn't give my money back. Af first, they seemed pretty helpful as I got a fast reply asking for the confirmation of the order and a promise that they would help me. But that was it. Last week I emailed them again when I noticed that the shop's website was down and asked whether they had talked to the shop. All I heard back was: "The shop has been attacked by a hacker so the shop was offline for a few days. Now they're online again and you may reach them via email."
Excuse me? The shop never ever replied my emails. Never. And now there is no telephone contact. They simply disconnected their telephone and all one hear now is an answering-machine message saying that they are not reachable by phone.
How can a shop do that? Who they think are going to buy things at a shop that doesn't answer the phone? So I never heard from the top site again, dispite having emailed them several times in the last few days.
All I can conclude is that they are either not willing to help or, for some reason I don't want to believe, they cannot help.
Last edited by Lob; 09.01.2007 at 17:04.
Reason: formatting....there is some now. Anger and formatting don't mix....
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09.01.2007, 16:59
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland
Why don't you give us an idea of what happened, without getting into specifics on the who/what/etc.
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09.01.2007, 17:11
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland
You're referring to toppreise. I use it a lot and have had no problems.
Your original gripe, edited to remove all names: | Quote: |  | | | Hi everybody,
I'm new here and I joined the forum to tell you about my worst online shopping experience ever, which happened at a Swiss shop (although I live in Germany), so that other people don’t get trapped too.
Here's my story. Last October I decided to buy a notebook which, unfortunately, at that time, was not available in the shops here in Germany. Many shops in Germany had told me that this particular notebook would only be available in two or three months time. Then, after an intensive online shopping survey, I found my chosen notebook in a Swiss online shop called <name removed>. They had a good price, a price that was competitive with German prices even when the conversion from Swiss francs to euros was taken into account. So I decided not to wait any longer and ordered the computer from <name removed>, even though I was afraid because I was buying it from Germany. God, what a mistake!
Although it took a little longer than I expected, <name removed> sent the computer to my address in Germany. As the computer arrived, however, I learned that the German tax I had to pay was way beyond what I initially thought, so I decided there was no point in taking the computer. I thus refused the delivery and the computer was sent back to <name removed>, sealed, in the box, as if the recipient was not available or the address was wrong. Then, my nightmare began. First, they said that I could only cancel my order, according to their AGB, 24 hours after placing it. Excuse me? 24 hours? Ok, it I should have read it, but... How can that be? I mean, if the product gets broken in the post or something, it's your problem, not theirs!
I was furious, but it was my mistake for not reading their AGB, so I apologized and tried to negotiate with Mrs. Y (who later I found out is also a shareholder of <name removed>) without much success. Soon I realized that I need to talk to the firm owner, Mr. X, and so I did. Mr. X seemed to quickly understand that there was no point in paying the absurd German tax, so he promptly agreed to give my money back, provided that I paid the cost of shipping, which I had no reason to disagree.
However, as it turned out, Mr. X was lying. Week after week he had a different excuse: 1) the computer didn't arrived; 2) the computer arrived but we have to pick it up at the post; 3) the computer is here but, for some strange reason, we are being charged the German tax (what??) and we have to sort that out before giving your money back. Just to name a few excuses. This lasted for several weeks, up to a point where there could be no more excuses, so Mr. X finally said that he would be transferring the money back to my bank account.
That last promise was in the week before Christmas. So far, I have not seen the color of my money. To make matters worse, for some reason beyond my imagination, <name removed> have disconnected their telephone and all I hear when I call is a message saying that they are not available on the phone and that I should send them an email. Ha-ha. What a joke! I have sent them loads of emails during the last two months without a single reply. So now, they simply disappeared, although their website (http://www.<name removed>) is still online ready to take your order. (Maybe one of you could try phoning them or pretend you wanted to buy something, just to see what happens.)
All this time, it was pretty hard to talk to Mr. X. He was always on the phone, always busy with other customers, Mrs. Y would say, as if my problem was not important at all, as if I was not busy myself, as if they didn't owe me any money. At some point, I was so fed up that I recorded one call with Mr. X (with his consent, of course) when I told him that I had not received the money, although he had said a week before that he had already made the transfer to my bank account.
So far, this is my story. Mr. X and Mrs. Y disappeared and left me with no money and no computer. Liars! Thieves! They left me without any other option other than to take a legal action. And that's exactly what I'm doing at the moment. The next chapters of this story will be posted here as soon as they unfold... | | | | | Now I can say that import duties are your problem and an estimate of duty due from a foreign site on a sale has to be an estimate - for example I had goods from pixmania.com delivered to me from France and they removed French VAT and estimated I'd have to pay 20 francs (or something). I actually paid nothing. Under the radar.
Did you pay with Credit Card?
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09.01.2007, 17:16
| | Junior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Germany
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland | Quote: | |  | | | You're referring to toppreise. I use it a lot and have had no problems.
| | | | | It's not that Ihave any problems with them. It is just that they seemed to be willing to help, but now they are also hiding... | Quote: | |  | | |
Now I can say that import duties are your problem and an estimate of duty due from a foreign site on a sale has to be an estimate - for example I had goods from pixmania.com delivered to me from France and they removed French VAT and estimated I'd have to pay 20 francs (or something). I actually paid nothing. Under the radar.
| | | | | I fully understand that. As I said, it was my mistake. But is that a reason for them to lie? To promise to give my money back for weeks and then disappear without trace? At the moment, I paid for something I did not get. For me this is a case for the police. | Quote: | |  | | |
Did you pay with Credit Card?
| | | | | Another mistake. I paid by bank transfer.
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09.01.2007, 17:22
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland
Toppreise is a portal which collects pricing information from these webshops. I do believe that they need a slightly clearer disclaimer as to their role in the whole process - they get commission based on click-thru and/or sales related to click-thru - nothing more nothing less.
You need to initiate an official method of logging the debt (refund) and starting official wheels a-turnin'. I don't know how you'd do this but someone might well know.
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09.01.2007, 17:27
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland
Can't he organise a Betreibung by going to Aargau (was it?)
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09.01.2007, 17:27
| | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Geneva
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland | Quote: | |  | | | Toppreise is a portal which collects pricing information from these webshops. I do believe that they need a slightly clearer disclaimer as to their role in the whole process - they get commission based on click-thru and/or sales related to click-thru - nothing more nothing less.
You need to initiate an official method of logging the debt (refund) and starting official wheels a-turnin'. I don't know how you'd do this but someone might well know. | | | | | I reckon you need to get in touch with the Betreibungsamt of their domicile. It's actually quite easy to file a Betreibung, or so I've gathered.
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09.01.2007, 17:31
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: -
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland | Quote: | |  | | | Onlineshop / Website
Site design / navigation 4.3
Offers / availability 3.9
Order handling 2.1
Topicality 4.0
Shop handling 3.6
Product descriptions 3.9
Order procedure / conditions
Delivery time 1.6
Dispatch costs and options 4.1
Payment options 3.3
Service / accessibility 1.6
Service after purchase 1.5
Price level 5.2 | | | | | and | Quote: | |  | | | Onlineshop / Website
Site design / navigation 5.4
Offers / availability 5.3
Order handling 5.7
Topicality 5.5
Shop handling 5.5
Product descriptions 5.3
Order procedure / conditions
Delivery time 5.5
Dispatch costs and options 5.2
Payment options 4.6
Service / accessibility 5.2
Service after purchase 5.4
Price level 5.3 | | | | | You score high on price and low on everything else. Check the ratings, my dear fellow.....you're not the only one it seems that is unhappy with this.
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09.01.2007, 17:31
| | Junior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Germany
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland | Quote: | |  | | | Toppreise is a portal which collects pricing information from these webshops. I do believe that they need a slightly clearer disclaimer as to their role in the whole process - they get commission based on click-thru and/or sales related to click-thru - nothing more nothing less.
| | | | | I know that, of course. That is the point. How can we trust the ratings on their website, then?
And if you have been ripped off, don't turn to them to tell the world about it because they won't let you. They only accept "nice" rates... | Quote: | |  | | |
You need to initiate an official method of logging the debt (refund) and starting official wheels a-turnin'. I don't know how you'd do this but someone might well know.
| | | | | I have already contacted a lawyer and things are under way...
[/quote]
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09.01.2007, 17:33
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland | Quote: | |  | | | I know that, of course. That is the point. How can we trust the ratings on their website, then?
And if you have been ripped off, don't turn to them to tell the world about it because they won't let you. They only accept "nice" rates... | | | | | erm, not according to what I've looked at. Good luck with the claim, though - and don't forget to ensure your lawyer costs are covered in the claim (if possible).
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09.01.2007, 17:36
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland | Quote: | |  | | | I reckon you need to get in touch with the Betreibungsamt of their domicile. It's actually quite easy to file a Betreibung, or so I've gathered. | | | | | What exactly is this Betreibung thing?
One problem is I don't live in Switzerland but in Germany. Another problem is that I'm also not fluent in German...
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09.01.2007, 17:36
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland
Shorrick quoted me - it's the official filing for recovery of a debt.
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09.01.2007, 17:40
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland | Quote: | |  | | | Shorrick quoted me - it's the official filing for recovery of a debt. | | | | | Yes, sorry, I should have been clearer. Usually it's very effective, as it is very bad karma to have such a filing on your record.
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09.01.2007, 17:41
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland | Quote: | |  | | | Shorrick quoted me - it's the official filing for recovery of a debt. | | | | | So maybe someone can tell me how I can do this thing being away. If necessary, I have friends in Zurich who could fill out the forms for me...
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09.01.2007, 17:43
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland
These people might be able to help you (click pic) | 
09.01.2007, 17:57
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland | Quote: | |  | | | These people might be able to help you (click pic) | | | | | They look nice, but do they take care of the Aargau canton? The shop is located at Hausen (I hope I won't be banned for mentioning the shop's location)...
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09.01.2007, 18:05
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| | | Re: Problems- Buyer in Germany, shop in Swizterland | |
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