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  #221  
Old 20.10.2009, 10:18
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

What, Switzerland without cows

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c) reduce the cow population (they make them in other countries too)
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  #222  
Old 20.10.2009, 10:19
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Yes, most of them have some kind of import duties, thats true (tariffs and subsidies are not so common though). But subsidies to make the farmland "look nice"? C'mmon! That's a joke... that could be translated into government saying: "Since I need your conservative vote, I need to throw taxpayer's money at you, but I need an excuse, so lets say it's for your hardwork in making your field foliage look nice".

To be fair, its not only a Swiss issue, it also happens accross the EU. I just hope that Swiss at some point will also get intelligent on treating this issue.
Indeed, and as had been mentioned I'm sure, the "pretty farm" subsidy (which imo works well having worked on several UK farms which looked like scrap and crap yards) translates to passing some of the tourism income on to the farmers. I don't really have an issue with that.

Could farms become bigger and maintain the good looks? Personally I think so - close to my house there are two "herds" of dairy cows - each less than 30 animals. It's simply not economic reality and, with the milk price what it is, I don't know why they bother. Yes, they get subsidies but I don't see them driving around in Mercs.

I've got the bug now . Going to investigate ........
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  #223  
Old 20.10.2009, 10:24
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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It would be interesting to know if the Swiss buy locally or do they look at getting a cheaper deal in another Country?
I work with a Swiss guy who has a website business on the side buying and selling cheaper stuff to the Swiss just over the border in Germany . It seems like big business, if the amount of time he spends on his mobile phone to customers (during office hours here!) is any indication

Are you actually allowed to moonlight like that during paid work time here??
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  #224  
Old 20.10.2009, 10:25
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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c) reduce the cow population (they make them in other countries too) and, in order to prevent the farmers revolting, subsidise the farmers (with the money saved from subsidising cows) to turn a huge cow field or two into a public park. Then, instead of the local population being forced to take their Sunday walk around the electrified perimeter of a field full of cowpats they could enjoy some trees, gardens and water features.
Without the cowpats the public park would require artificial fertilizers with the resulting contamination of the water table, rivers, lakes.

Furthermore, I prefer a walk where I can see what are undeniably the prettiest cows in the world. Maybe you'd populate your park with plastic cows?
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  #225  
Old 20.10.2009, 10:44
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Without the cowpats the public park would require artificial fertilizers with the resulting contamination of the water table, rivers, lakes.

Furthermore, I prefer a walk where I can see what are undeniably the prettiest cows in the world. Maybe you'd populate your park with plastic cows?
I prefer to look at my wife rather than even the Rosenkönig of cows.

I only said reduce the cow population, not obliterate it and the remaining pats may be used to fertilize. A few more public parks might not be such a bad thing?
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  #226  
Old 20.10.2009, 13:07
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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c) reduce the cow population (they make them in other countries too) and, in order to prevent the farmers revolting, subsidise the farmers (with the money saved from subsidising cows) to turn a huge cow field or two into a public park. Then, instead of the local population being forced to take their Sunday walk around the electrified perimeter of a field full of cowpats they could enjoy some trees, gardens and water features.

and how do you employ the farmers? as your gardener? and who says that the cow field belongs to public/gemeinde? most farmers own their ground...how will "you" subsidise that? i wouldnt spend too much time thinking about stuff that works here for ages and maybe does forever. take it as ist is and get along... and i wouldnt like to have artificial parks in mountain surroundings...the country is a park. as i am living in zurich...why should a park in wollerau bother me? id never go there, so let them cows be. and if i make the effort to hike in the nature, again not (eg) wollerau or xyzikon in the middle of nowhere but maybe some real mountain trail...
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  #227  
Old 20.10.2009, 13:11
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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and how do you employ the farmers? as your gardener? and who says that the cow field belongs to public/gemeinde? most farmers own their ground...how will "you" subsidise that? i wouldnt spend too much time thinking about stuff that works here for ages and maybe does forever. take it as ist is and get along... and i wouldnt like to have artificial parks in mountain surroundings...the country is a park. as i am living in zurich...why should a park in wollerau bother me? id never go there, so let them cows be. and if i make the effort to hike in the nature, again not (eg) wollerau or xyzikon in the middle of nowhere but maybe some real mountain trail...
I guess I should have known better than to employ a little creative thinking in this part of the world, or to express a contrarian opinion Complacency rules.

And as for the question of just who the field belongs to - perhaps not quite as simple as meets the eye when one considers the huge support the Swiss farmer receives from tax payer.
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  #228  
Old 20.10.2009, 13:29
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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I guess I should have known better than to employ a little creative thinking in this part of the world, or to express a contrarian opinion Complacency rules.

And as for the question of just who the field belongs to - perhaps not quite as simple as meets the eye when one considers the huge support the Swiss farmer receives from tax payer.

do you have a number of how much of your/average tax goes into cow/farmer subsidising?
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  #229  
Old 20.10.2009, 13:58
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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do you have a number of how much of your/average tax goes into cow/farmer subsidising?

I don't have the Swiss budget to hand but did find this http://www.globalpolicy.org/componen...209/43024.html

Support to farmers in rich countries averaged 31 percent of farm income in 2001, said the IMF report, which was contained in its twice-yearly World Economic Outlook. The level ranged from one percent in New Zealand to 61 percent in Switzerland. "If agricultural support in industrial countries were eliminated tomorrow, there would be significant gains, both for industrial countries themselves and for many countries -- particularly commodity producers -- in the rest of the world," the report said. Calculating the effects, it estimated that industrial countries would increase their real income by 0.4 percentage points of gross domestic product, or 92 billion dollars. Most gains would go to the big producers, Australia, Canada and New Zealand, and to those with the steepest subsidies, such as the European Union, Japan, South Korea, Norway and Switzerland.
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  #230  
Old 20.10.2009, 15:15
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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http://www.landwirtschaft.ch/de/aktu...t-gescheitert/

this is the famous Casis de Dijon case

according to this, Farmers failed to gather 50 000 signatures (against the case) by 30 September actually, they didn't, but it was pretty much only 50 000 and some of the signatures were not confirmed, so they came short by 500 signatures in the end... a pity, isn't it?

it's very good news for consumers. Now i would agree that Switzerland should start working on creating the same deal the other way around - so the Swiss products could be easly sold on EU market.
so.. any of you know when this casis de dijon will come into effect?
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  #231  
Old 20.10.2009, 15:21
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

really strange !
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  #232  
Old 20.10.2009, 16:51
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

Living where we do, we cross the border regularly. The CH border guards are always present at St. Gingolph [but not very frequently in Ouchy] but it seems to us that they are only interested basically in one thing. Have you got the necessary Vignette stuck on to your windscreen? If so, a laconic wave through. Otherwise, very few cars are stopped and asked what they might be bringing in.
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  #233  
Old 20.10.2009, 21:32
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Indeed, and as had been mentioned I'm sure, the "pretty farm" subsidy (which imo works well having worked on several UK farms which looked like scrap and crap yards) translates to passing some of the tourism income on to the farmers. I don't really have an issue with that.
I do have an issue!

Why don't you pass a subsidy to all people that have nice houses in Switzerland? After all, they attract tourism with their pretty houses!

You can apply the same to every pretty girl and handsome guy! or to every film crew that has ever done a film portraying a beautiful Switzerland! Pay also some money to Mr. Lindt and Mr. Suchard for putting everywhere in the world those nice cows and pretty farm girls in their envelopes!

We need some clarity of thoughts and logic here.
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  #234  
Old 20.10.2009, 21:44
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Yes, a lot of them do, maybe not the ones you know. Most of the largest countries of the world (by population I mean), leave agriculture to stand on its own feet.
The countries of the E.U. also subisdize their agricultural sector. And what about China, Japan, India, the USA ?
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  #235  
Old 20.10.2009, 21:47
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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It is certainly an unusual country that lets its cows luxuriate in beautiful meadowlands whilst confining its human populace to postage stamp amounts of square meterage in cloned clinical apartment blocks.
Well, would YOU like to "luxuriate" in beautiful meadowlands with a bell around your neck, and kept within your limits by barbed wire, and always in danger to become used as source for some steaks ?
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  #236  
Old 20.10.2009, 21:59
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Well, would YOU like to "luxuriate" in beautiful meadowlands with a bell around your neck, and kept within your limits by barbed wire, and always in danger to become used as source for some steaks ?
I'd rather be a Kobe cow then. All the beer I can drink and daily massages.
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  #237  
Old 20.10.2009, 22:04
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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c) reduce the cow population (they make them in other countries too) and, in order to prevent the farmers revolting, subsidise the farmers (with the money saved from subsidising cows) to turn a huge cow field or two into a public park. Then, instead of the local population being forced to take their Sunday walk around the electrified perimeter of a field full of cowpats they could enjoy some trees, gardens and water features.
You misunderstand something. A real Swiss solution would be to drop the subsidies, but to allow the farmers to erect entrance-posts around their cowfields and demand entry fees for having a look on the remaining cows of the country. Extra zones with extra fees would be established for yong calfs and special sorts of cows. Beautifully sounding bells would justify higher entrance-fees. In good places, special spectators bridges would lead right over the top of the cows.
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  #238  
Old 20.10.2009, 23:39
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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You misunderstand something. A real Swiss solution would be to drop the subsidies, but to allow the farmers to erect entrance-posts around their cowfields and demand entry fees for having a look on the remaining cows of the country. Extra zones with extra fees would be established for yong calfs and special sorts of cows. Beautifully sounding bells would justify higher entrance-fees. In good places, special spectators bridges would lead right over the top of the cows.
Sounds like a James Last concert at the Hallenstadion.
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  #239  
Old 23.10.2009, 20:03
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Yes, they get subsidies but I don't see them driving around in Mercs.
I can't recall them on Mercs but I know a couple of them driving Range Rovers. Many of them are impresarios now, supervising temporary foreign cheap labour. Just look at the fields and tell me if those guys picking or planting stuff are Swiss. Of course they aren't! The Swiss, is a guy somewhere in a corner supervising that the foreigners do their hourly paid job.

Is this bad? Yes, in fact it is. Those guys should be in their countries planting their fields and then exporting their stuff to countries like Switzerland.
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  #240  
Old 24.10.2009, 14:23
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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I can't recall them on Mercs but I know a couple of them driving Range Rovers. Many of them are impresarios now, supervising temporary foreign cheap labour. Just look at the fields and tell me if those guys picking or planting stuff are Swiss. Of course they aren't! The Swiss, is a guy somewhere in a corner supervising that the foreigners do their hourly paid job.

Is this bad? Yes, in fact it is. Those guys should be in their countries planting their fields and then exporting their stuff to countries like Switzerland.
Only bad for the moment. Many of those "supervised" foreigners earn the needed money, learn about modern things, then return to their countries and establish businesses exporting stuff to Switzerland. Many others of those "supervised" foreigners move up and establish companies inside Switzerland and import goods from their homelands.

There a few decades ago was a student from the Kosovo province of Yugoslavia at the Zurich University. The man is now Prime Minister of the Republic of Kosovo. Any guess who his prime city of contact in the "West" is now ?

Mr Blocher for decades made it possible for young people from Egypt and India to work in premises of EMS Chemie (etc) in Switzerland as "Volontaire" at slave wages. The old ...... of course profited most. But A) the wages were lots of money in Egypt and India, B) they learnt a lot while being there and C) to have worked in an industrial company is a good reference in both countries overthere.
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