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  #721  
Old 01.05.2012, 22:46
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

It's because most people here are in the Zurich area- and closer to Germany. Prices in France are possibly cheaper for those of us who live close to France.
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  #722  
Old 02.05.2012, 00:57
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Re: 'Foreign' Swiss prices!

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Just checked this company over their two WEBsites CH + DE. To me, they are crooks. To sell similar stuff in Germany for € 29 and in Switzerland for CHF 59 cannot be justified by slightly higher costs, not least as Germany also has expensive locations. Even if the stuff is of non-EU/non-EFTA origin, this is no excuse as the customs duties in Switzerland are the very similar to those in Germany and the VAT is much lower here.

They try it. But may not be aware that there IS competition with far lower prices for comparable products.

Look around. German companies who get onto the Swiss market with either the same prices as the competition or even lower prices have a considerable success, those who try to cheat their way through usally disappear within a few years

Maybe they have higher over head, such as marketing or rent? Which is entirely plausible. Why is it 1000 CHF cheaper to buy a scooter in France, and even cheaper in Portugal? Not everyone is trying to rip everyone else off. I bought a shirt once, from a store that had outlets in Madrid and also in the US. When I went to their outlet in the US, it was in NYC. The cost of the same shirt was more in NYC. Why? More overhead.
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  #723  
Old 02.05.2012, 01:11
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Re: 'Foreign' Swiss prices!

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Why is it 1000 CHF cheaper to buy a scooter in France, and even cheaper in Portugal?
Most likely simply because customers in Switzerland are willing to pay more than in France and customers in France are willing to pay more than in Portugal.

Prices of consumer products are mostly based on the customers' willingness to pay and not on cost. 'Cost' is often just a lame excuse because you can't tell customers that you're simply trying to extract more money from them.
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  #724  
Old 02.05.2012, 01:17
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Re: 'Foreign' Swiss prices!

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Most likely simply because customers in Switzerland are willing to pay more than in France and customers in France are willing to pay more than in Portugal.

Prices of consumer products are mostly based on the customers' willingness to pay and not on cost. 'Cost' is often just a lame excuse because you can't tell customers that you're simply trying to extract more money from them.
I don't at all agree, except when it comes to luxury goods. People make more money in Switzerland and also cost of doing business is higher here as well.

People make less in France then in Switzerland, and there fore products cost less there.

Even more so in Portugal.
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  #725  
Old 02.05.2012, 02:12
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Re: 'Foreign' Swiss prices!

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Most likely simply because customers in Switzerland are willing to pay more than in France and customers in France are willing to pay more than in Portugal.
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I don't at all agree, except when it comes to luxury goods. People make more money in Switzerland and also cost of doing business is higher here as well.

People make less in France then in Switzerland, and there fore products cost less there.

Even more so in Portugal.
So in other words, you agree exactly with Mark75. People make more money in Switzerland (> France > Portugal) and so are willing to pay more for whatever they buy (not just luxury goods).

Greedy retailers price according to what the buyer will bear. It's Marketing 101.
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  #726  
Old 02.05.2012, 03:13
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Re: 'Foreign' Swiss prices!

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So in other words, you agree exactly with Mark75. People make more money in Switzerland (> France > Portugal) and so are willing to pay more for whatever they buy (not just luxury goods).

Greedy retailers price according to what the buyer will bear. It's Marketing 101.
Retailers will price according to what the buyer will bear, but if the buyer makes 600 euros a month they won't pay 10% of their income to buy something average. When people make less they spend less.

How is that hard to comprehend?

And also, what makes a retailer more greedy then anyone else doing business? The fact is I normally buy most of my shoes and clothes here, in Switzerland, as except for real cheap quality textiles, the prices tend to be better then what I have found in France.
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  #727  
Old 02.05.2012, 03:37
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Re: 'Foreign' Swiss prices!

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Retailers will price according to what the buyer will bear, but if the buyer makes 600 euros a month they won't pay 10% of their income to buy something average. When people make less they spend less.

How is that hard to comprehend?

And also, what makes a retailer more greedy then anyone else doing business? The fact is I normally buy most of my shoes and clothes here, in Switzerland, as except for real cheap quality textiles, the prices tend to be better then what I have found in France.
Once again and a little more slowly, greedy retailers price according to what the buyer will bear. If the target consumer can't afford to pay 10% of a month's salary for an item, the retailer will reduce the asking price or withdraw the item from sale in that market. I don't find that hard to understand.

Now, the point is, if they can sell for a price that is acceptable to a €600-per-month customer, so could they (by and large) for the same price elsewhere. But they don't. That's what makes them greedy, or opportunistic, at best.

That's nice that you've found cheap clothes in Switzerland, but you've missed the point. Everybody else in this thread has found that, for a "basket" of clothes (and other goods), prices are usually much lower in France (or Germany, etc).
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Old 02.05.2012, 03:39
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Re: 'Foreign' Swiss prices!

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Once again and a little more slowly, greedy retailers price according to what the buyer will bear. If the target consumer can't afford to pay 10% of a month's salary for an item, the retailer will reduce the asking price or withdraw the item from sale in that market. I don't find that hard to understand.

Now, the point is, if they can sell for a price that is acceptable to a €600-per-month customer, so could they (by and large) for the same price elsewhere. But they don't. That's what makes them greedy, or opportunistic, at best.

That's nice that you've found cheap clothes in Switzerland, but you've missed the point. Everybody else in this thread has found that, for a "basket" of clothes (and other goods), prices are usually much lower in France (or Germany, etc).
Thanks for being so condescending.
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  #729  
Old 02.05.2012, 06:23
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Is it as cheap to buy in France as it is to buy in Germany?
Curious because everyone seems to be saying that they buy in Germany - but is that because they live close to Germany or only Germany has good prices?
Most of Switzerland simply IS close to Germany. Which means close to the most efficient marketplace in Europe. France by average is less expensive than Germany (yes the whole club IS expensive by worldwide standards)

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It's because most people here are in the Zurich area- and closer to Germany. Prices in France are possibly cheaper for those of us who live close to France.
-
Yes AND No. You have to compare carefully. Wines from the Maghreb and Lebanon are cheaper in France, but wines from Turkey and Eastern Europe are cheaper in Germany. Furniture ? depends on your preferences. If you like the Scandinavian thing than IKEA is your way, otherwise I prefer Conforama, and so even bought stuff in the past in France. Photography ? appliances may be cheaper in France but on the hightech-front, Germany is leading the pack. Media Markt ? Be aware of the point that Switzerland has better treaties with some Asian countries which means that particular products in MediaMarkt-CH are cheaper than in their outlets in Germany.

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Maybe they have higher over head, such as marketing or rent? Which is entirely plausible. Why is it 1000 CHF cheaper to buy a scooter in France, and even cheaper in Portugal? Not everyone is trying to rip everyone else off. I bought a shirt once, from a store that had outlets in Madrid and also in the US. When I went to their outlet in the US, it was in NYC. The cost of the same shirt was more in NYC. Why? More overhead.
-
Marketing in Switzerland is not much more expensive than in Germany, and rent IS more expensive but not that much. Very often, people here compare Zürich/Basel to places like Waldshut and Lörrach. But of course, rents in Sumiswald and Thayingen are lower than in München and Köln !

NYC ? I visited the USA extensively 4 times, and always found the country rather expensive. With noteable exceptions. Did you get a price in Savannah/GA or in Marshal/TX for comparison ? Madrid ? the chains in Madrid have to offer the same prices as their outlets in Barcelona, Valencia and Malaga who are in competition with Casablanca, Oran, Algiers and Tunis.

the USA ? Strange. We do a lot of commercial shopping in the USA. "Economy of scale" which means people producing for a huge domestic market can of course sell at a lower price. And a huge market allows a wide range of products. But selling goods in retail in big USA cities means to cover the relatively high price-level. I mean, it is strange if you offer in a shop in Zürich, Germany-produced products which were sold to USA merchants who in the end had to sell to Switzerland at basement prices (dispatch via Miami per consolidated aircargo). This is the market !
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  #730  
Old 02.05.2012, 06:36
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Most likely simply because customers in Switzerland are willing to pay more than in France and customers in France are willing to pay more than in Portugal.

Prices of consumer products are mostly based on the customers' willingness to pay and not on cost. 'Cost' is often just a lame excuse because you can't tell customers that you're simply trying to extract more money from them.
It is NOT just a lame excuse. It is the basis of the considerations. You HAVe to cover your costs.
2---- you have to check what the competition is doing ..... and always bear in mind that the customers are only willing to pay 50% of your expenses !!
3 ---- And then you fix your price, which will alllow a 30% profit on the stuff


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So in other words, you agree exactly with Mark75. People make more money in Switzerland (> France > Portugal) and so are willing to pay more for whatever they buy (not just luxury goods).

Greedy retailers price according to what the buyer will bear. It's Marketing 101.
I know an international trader of instruments and related products. He upon receipt of stuff adds at least 60% to the price before working on it. And NO, people are not willing to pay more in Switzerland due to their income but as travelling 100 kms is NOT free-of-charge, and as they are used to the prices in their area. And many people here of course know WHERE exactly to purchase the stuff they need. Many shops in CH-downtown have the nick-name "Ussländer-Läde" which means expensive shops where only crazy foreigners go shopping
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  #731  
Old 02.05.2012, 07:08
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Most of Switzerland simply IS close to Germany. Which means close to the most efficient marketplace in Europe. France by average is less expensive than Germany (yes the whole club IS expensive by worldwide standards)


-
Yes AND No. You have to compare carefully. Wines from the Maghreb and Lebanon are cheaper in France, but wines from Turkey and Eastern Europe are cheaper in Germany. Furniture ? depends on your preferences. If you like the Scandinavian thing than IKEA is your way, otherwise I prefer Conforama, and so even bought stuff in the past in France. Photography ? appliances may be cheaper in France but on the hightech-front, Germany is leading the pack. Media Markt ? Be aware of the point that Switzerland has better treaties with some Asian countries which means that particular products in MediaMarkt-CH are cheaper than in their outlets in Germany.


-
Marketing in Switzerland is not much more expensive than in Germany, and rent IS more expensive but not that much. Very often, people here compare Zürich/Basel to places like Waldshut and Lörrach. But of course, rents in Sumiswald and Thayingen are lower than in München and Köln !

NYC ? I visited the USA extensively 4 times, and always found the country rather expensive. With noteable exceptions. Did you get a price in Savannah/GA or in Marshal/TX for comparison ? Madrid ? the chains in Madrid have to offer the same prices as their outlets in Barcelona, Valencia and Malaga who are in competition with Casablanca, Oran, Algiers and Tunis.

the USA ? Strange. We do a lot of commercial shopping in the USA. "Economy of scale" which means people producing for a huge domestic market can of course sell at a lower price. And a huge market allows a wide range of products. But selling goods in retail in big USA cities means to cover the relatively high price-level. I mean, it is strange if you offer in a shop in Zürich, Germany-produced products which were sold to USA merchants who in the end had to sell to Switzerland at basement prices (dispatch via Miami per consolidated aircargo). This is the market !
Yeah well that was NYC. If I go to Detroit the prices are much cheaper. I was on Madison Avenue.
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Old 02.05.2012, 09:44
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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It is NOT just a lame excuse. It is the basis of the considerations. You HAVe to cover your costs.
Of course you have to cover your costs. But a cost based calculation for a consumer product made in Asia would probably lead to a 10% markup over German prices, considering the different tax rates but never ever 50, 100 or even more percent. Justifying those ridiculous markups with 'cost' is what I call a lame excuse.

Sure, from a small retailer's point of view it may look a little different. If the Swiss distributor is charging him more than a retail customer pays in Germany then he does have higher costs. But that simply means that someone else (either the distributor or the foreign supplier or both) is making a killing and that the Swiss markup on the wholesale price isn't cost-based either. Doesn't really matter though, since the retail customer doesn't know and doesn't care but only sees the huge retail price difference and acts accordingly.
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Old 02.05.2012, 12:58
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

No, Germany, for whatever reason, is cheaper for most items than in France.
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  #734  
Old 02.05.2012, 13:01
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Re: 'Foreign' Swiss prices!

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Bought a garment at the Ulla Popken shop in Luzern.
It is a German firm I understand.
So
Swiss price CHF 59,95
UK price £ 26.00

so about £20 difference. Is Switzerland entirely responsible for this? How does it work?

Here is the reply to my e-mail to them:

bs oder bei der Einfuhr. Auch unterliegt der Schweizer
Franken starken Fluktuationen, denen wir nach Möglichkeit in unserer
Preisgestaltung nachkommen.
Da wir jedoch für jede Kollektion mehrere Monate Planungs- und somit auch
Produktionsvorlauf haben, können wir darauf leider nicht immer kurzfristig
reagieren. In der kommenden Herbst- und Wintersaison bleiben aber zum
Beispiel in der Schweiz die Preise stabil, obwohl es bei Agrarrohstoffen
seit einiger Zeit einen deutlichen Preisauftrieb gibt. Vor allem der
Baumwollpreis ist davon betroffen und hat sich in nur zwei Jahren
vervierfacht.
Trotz der Erhöhungen bei den Rohstoffen, konnten wir unsere Artikel bisher
mit leichbleibenden Preisen anbieten. Nun müssen jedoch auch wir bei
einigen Artikeln in Euroländern eine leichte Preiserhöhung vornehmen, um
die Ware in der gewohnten Qualität anbieten zu können. Der Preis in
Schweizer Franken bleibt davon jedoch unberührt.
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  #735  
Old 02.05.2012, 13:39
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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and always bear in mind that the customers are only willing to pay 50% of your expenses !!
3 ---- And then you fix your price, which will alllow a 30% profit on the stuff
You have read these 'rules' in Das Kapital?

Where does it say customers are only willing to pay 50% of your expenses. Your making this up! Monopolies can gouge multiples of expenses and what do you think is a markup on services (it could be many multiples if the service is good enough)....

Theoretically its really easy stuff to understand.

1. The aim is to price at the HIGHEST point to where you still get targeted demand - Thats Business 101 and there are no rule books on numbers or percentages. The reason you price at the highest point is obviously because more goes to the bottom line and also because running a business is A RISK - that risk is not static and can often be very difficult to calculate i.e unpredictable - you can be doing well this year and out of business next. In addition most businesses are in NEGATIVE the first day they open.

2. Of course, price has to be above ALL your costs - otherwise its called a charity. And if the intention wasnt being a charity, the market will push you out

3. Customers dont care about your expenses, they are after value and if they cant get it they go to the competition (if available).

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But that simply means that someone else (either the distributor or the foreign supplier or both) is making a killing and that the Swiss markup on the wholesale price isn't cost-based either. Doesn't really matter though, since the retail customer doesn't know and doesn't care but only sees the huge retail price difference and acts accordingly.
Yes, and the reason why a lot of retail is deciding to head in the internet direction. Purchasing from overseas internet sites can however still be limited by some lobby group asking the government to help on customs duties. I wouldnt also rule out in the future, governments placing local and overseas internet sites into a separate 'retail' category and then slapping an extra tax on it in the name of 'fairness/paying fair share/help local market etc' .

Last edited by Lex; 02.05.2012 at 13:55.
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:03
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Of course you have to cover your costs. But a cost based calculation for a consumer product made in Asia would probably lead to a 10% markup over German prices, considering the different tax rates but never ever 50, 100 or even more percent. Justifying those ridiculous markups with 'cost' is what I call a lame excuse.

Sure, from a small retailer's point of view it may look a little different. If the Swiss distributor is charging him more than a retail customer pays in Germany then he does have higher costs. But that simply means that someone else (either the distributor or the foreign supplier or both) is making a killing and that the Swiss markup on the wholesale price isn't cost-based either. Doesn't really matter though, since the retail customer doesn't know and doesn't care but only sees the huge retail price difference and acts accordingly.
We have reduced purchases from a major CH distributor as we have to compete with German retailers, not least in view of our many German customers

Some German wholesalers when hearing "Switzerland" automatically add 50% to their prices. The leading ones however play fair and do not do so. But the various companies usually have WEBsites, revealing their German prices. And then in negotiations you can achieve a lot, which means that your prices are in line with shops in neighbouring Germany. If you do business in a good way, there will be NO retail price difference at all. Our German customers btw. know exactly what products are less expensive in Switzerland (and where) ! It is amazing how many products they speak about !

Making purchases from a Taiwan supplier is interesting and the company there is good and plays fair. Other companies in "Asia" however demand fairly high prices. Why ? Because they sell their stuff in vast quantities to traders in Britain and the USA, and so are not too interested in small shipments
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Old 03.05.2012, 01:56
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

For a matter of open disclosure to this argument as it is relating to greed. In regards to rental cars, for example. If I book a rental from any of the big names Budget, National, Hertz, Sixth, say in France or in the USA. When it asks my country of origin and I put in the USA it will give me a rate of X. If I then fill out that my current driver's license is issued from Switzerland, even though I am not renting the car for use within Switzerland, there is always an up charge of a significant amount.

I noticed that last time I tried to book a car. Then I called the 1800 number to ask what was the problem, and was told that it was because there were different prices for Swiss drivers. I then cancelled my booking, called back, and re booked it with new info that I had indeed a US driving license.

It's the same car, being used in the same way, as it would be by any driver of any nationality, but to drive a car internationally with a Swiss ID makes it a higher tariff.
The only other similar experience I had with this was in Ireland when I was forced to take a huge insurance or give a 1500 euro cash deposit to rent a car, from Budget by the way, because apparently they(Kosovo and Israel included) had "some" past issues with their cars being used in car bombs, and wanted international driver's or non residents to cough up a ton of cash.

Strange, never knew the Swiss had a huge vested interest in the politics of Ireland.
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Old 18.05.2012, 09:55
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Of course you have to cover your costs. But a cost based calculation for a consumer product made in Asia would probably lead to a 10% markup over German prices, considering the different tax rates but never ever 50, 100 or even more percent. Justifying those ridiculous markups with 'cost' is what I call a lame excuse.

...........................
Just got on line to order 2 new Japanese made spark plugs.
Found 2 on-line Swiss businesses that offered them for 9CHF each plus 14CHF postage (not clearly stated if it was 14CHF each or for the two).

Then found a UK site that sold me the 2 plugs including postage for 9CHF total.
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Old 18.05.2012, 10:00
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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.................................................. ..........................
Yes, and the reason why a lot of retail is deciding to head in the internet direction. Purchasing from overseas internet sites can however still be limited by some lobby group asking the government to help on customs duties. I wouldnt also rule out in the future, governments placing local and overseas internet sites into a separate 'retail' category and then slapping an extra tax on it in the name of 'fairness/paying fair share/help local market etc' .
I think a number of Governments do dream about such an approach but it is hard to realise.
The Swiss have achieved this to some extent with their Postal inspection charges but, in practice, this has created a new market for businesses along the German border who act as post collection points.
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Old 22.06.2012, 12:30
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

As a comparison i needed some prescription medication..

10 tablets in CH 45chf €37.5
10 tablets in DE €9 11chf

1/4 the price for EXACTLY the same medication.

im on the border so i know where ill be going for everything in future

and the 5chf pharmacy fee to repeat whats on the prescription is a piss take "2 tablets a day for 5 days" "yes thank you i can read"
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