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  #901  
Old 01.09.2012, 14:23
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

I thought there was some reasoning behind the high prices - mainly that whereas it's true prices are high, so it is the fact that employees in the shops earn much more than abroad so all customers in a way subsidize the economy and this is something everyone profits from

However I then realized Migros earns around 660 million francs, Coop 430 millions.

On their own those figures mean nothing. The outrage comes when you realize a mega chain in all continents with millions and millions of customers such as Carrefour earns 445 million francs.

Clearly I was wrong, Migros in its own potentially 8 million-souls market shared mostly with another chain earns 50% more than a global chain!

Now I don't understand why people accept this and keep letting those bastards grab our money
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  #902  
Old 01.09.2012, 14:25
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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It does still apply.
Same product in the same distribution chain (ie Carrefour) has different price depending where the supermarket is, making pricing policies quite complex there (and i know what i am talking about).

Just FYI, just came back from Naples where i went to eat pizza with some swiss colleagues in a touristy restaurant in via caracciolo (city centre in front of the sea, a popular spot) and for 4 starters, 4 pizzas, 5 bottle of water + 5 limoncello we paid a bill of 71 euros.
Try to beat that!
You would pay double in Milan and triple in Basel.
I always liked shopping in Milano, not because the prices ever were really much lower than in Zurigo but due to the nice shops and the choice available. I a few years ago was enroute from ZRH via MXP to Tunis. I already was re-booked in ZRH, due to an a/c-change from AZ to Swiss, and as there was a Saturday-chaos in Malpensa (what about "bad thoughts ) missed the connex-TUN. But finally succeeded to get a free re-booking onto the evening flight MXP-TUN, and as the weather was lots of fog in the Malpensa-plains went downtown for a day. Sampled about 5 Grappa over the day, bought a nice t-shirt and a few small items (one t-shirt I did not and got almost the same thing then in Tunis at about 30% the Milano-price). And then, free thanks to courtesy of ALITALIA (Always Late In Take-off Always Late In Arrival , but in reality always a very fine company ) had a very nice meal in a nice restaurant at Malpensa, before travelling onward !
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  #903  
Old 01.09.2012, 14:36
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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I live in Zurich but there is a lot of stuff that I would never try to buy here since I am not brain-dead... I never buy books here because Amazon is much cheaper anyway, if I need a new battery for my mobile I would not even try a second to get it here and so on.
Buying books in shops has the advantage that you can really look into the books, and really compare. And to remind you, Konstanz (unlike Waldshut and Lörrach which are "Käffer") is a real city, a small city, but a city with some really nice bookshops, very nice restaurants. a nice marina etc. Amazingly, Konstanz is THE German city SOUTH of the Rhein, on the Swiss side, so to speak ! Together with the two CH sister-cities Schaffhausen and Stein-am-Rhein (Stein rather a town, but a sensational one), it is an excellent TRIO AM RHEIN !
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  #904  
Old 01.09.2012, 14:43
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

I remember Konstanz, I bought my first PCs there long ago, sweet memories...

Regarding books Amazon has the "look into the book" feature and you can check dozens or hundreds of reviews to make it easier.

Last time I bought a book in Switzerland was probably five years ago.
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  #905  
Old 01.09.2012, 14:47
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

And there is some stuff you simply don't get here even if it's a big city. I remember some years ago I needed some specific bolts/screws. Had to order them in Germany.

If I need some new toner for my laserprinter I still order it online from a Swiss company and so on.
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  #906  
Old 01.09.2012, 14:55
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Clearly I was wrong, Migros in its own potentially 8 million-souls market shared mostly with another chain earns 50% more than a global chain!

Now I don't understand why people accept this and keep letting those bastards grab our money
very well written!
while it is true that ypu can have high prices also in Italy, UK and France,it is also true that you can find cheaper things if you move away from the expensive places and go shopping around but this is almost impossible in Switzerland.
This is why i don't accept the whole "support the swiss business" when it comes about Migros and Coop as they don't really need one.
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  #907  
Old 01.09.2012, 15:05
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

Shopping in Zurich: You go to Denner or Aldi because they are the cheapest. For things you don't find there you go to Migros/Coop.
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  #908  
Old 01.09.2012, 15:10
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Shopping in Zurich: You go to Denner or Aldi because they are the cheapest. For things you don't find there you go to Migros/Coop.
Denner is Migros. So by going to Denner you simply take Migros-Lite
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  #909  
Old 01.09.2012, 15:14
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

I know Denner is Migros, as long as it's cheaper for some stuff I don't care.
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  #910  
Old 01.09.2012, 15:32
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

It's not always about 'just cheaper' for many of us - In the UK I could buy 2 chickens for a fiver (£5) at Tesco's- but I never did buy them. And for good reasons.
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  #911  
Old 01.09.2012, 15:40
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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And there is some stuff you simply don't get here even if it's a big city. I remember some years ago I needed some specific bolts/screws. Had to order them in Germany.

If I need some new toner for my laserprinter I still order it online from a Swiss company and so on.
There are Germans who still come shopping in Switzerland as some things are not available in Germany, and there are Swiss who go to Germany to shop NOT due to the price(s) but due to the availability.

And back to the books. Yes, those "functions" on Amazon and some other sites are well known to me, but it is not the same. And if that O-F manager who recently said that he would rather close down the mainline OF shops and only retain the OF EnglishBookshop has his way it will be the end of the "classical" OF as I do not believe that the Internet-OF has a real chance against Amazon.
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  #912  
Old 01.09.2012, 15:50
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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It's not always about 'just cheaper' for many of us - In the UK I could buy 2 chickens for a fiver (£5) at Tesco's- but I never did buy them. And for good reasons.
Yes, but if you think "paying more always delivers better quality" it's somehow naive, too.
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  #913  
Old 01.09.2012, 20:31
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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...as I do not believe that the Internet-OF has a real chance against Amazon.
I'm a nice guy so I sometimes go to books.ch first, but in the end it's obvious I still order at Amazon. Why should I pay 50% more? I have no idea.
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  #914  
Old 02.09.2012, 00:09
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Yes, but if you think "paying more always delivers better quality" it's somehow naive, too.
A higher price does not necessarily mean a better quality, but it may be the quantity you can use. It does not make sense to purchase more merchandise at a lower per kilo price if you cannot use as much of the material.

In regard to Migros, not only is Denner now Migros Lite but Globus is the Migros deLuxe The two companies were kept separate brands just in order to keep up alternatives within the group. Add to this that both Denner and Globus sell alcoholic beverages freely, just as the shops at the Migrol petrrol stations which are not owned by Migros/Migrol but by separate owners.
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  #915  
Old 02.09.2012, 00:16
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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I'm a nice guy so I sometimes go to books.ch first, but in the end it's obvious I still order at Amazon. Why should I pay 50% more? I have no idea.
This is what I mean. www.books.ch is not in the league of Amazon and never will get
A) the traders rebates Amazon DOES get
B) does not have the size and structure to do deliveries cheaply and swiftly
C) and so will always be at least 40% more expensive than Amazon

www.books.ch can only exist as long as the mainline bookshops are operating, but without them has no chance of survival. The English Bookshop however does have good chances as its predecessor Stäheli English Bookshop and its competitor Däniker English Bookshop worked successfully during decades until the death of their owners.
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  #916  
Old 02.09.2012, 10:24
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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This is what I mean. www.books.ch is not in the league of Amazon and never will get
A) the traders rebates Amazon DOES get
B) does not have the size and structure to do deliveries cheaply and swiftly
C) and so will always be at least 40% more expensive than Amazon

www.books.ch can only exist as long as the mainline bookshops are operating, but without them has no chance of survival. The English Bookshop however does have good chances as its predecessor Stäheli English Bookshop and its competitor Däniker English Bookshop worked successfully during decades until the death of their owners.
Mainline bookshops need to stop adding massive margins and charge something realistic if they want to survive. The also need to realise that Amazon is their competition since if they don't they will be history.

For too long bookshops in Australia retained massive margins and thought yes people will always want to come in and feel and look at the books, WRONG! A number of global chains have now closed down there and many others try to blame the internet. Time for bookstores to provide a decent service and outperform places like Amazon only then can they consider charging higher prices. At the moment their higher prices are not reflected in the service offerings.

These comments are valid here in Switzerland where I only usually ever go to a store to look at a few books and then mostly I go and purchase it online somewhere else, they are simple too expensive.
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Old 02.09.2012, 13:17
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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I'm a nice guy so I sometimes go to books.ch first, but in the end it's obvious I still order at Amazon. Why should I pay 50% more? I have no idea.
Because by putting the smaller shops out of business you are helping to create another cartel, this time in the market for books. And this time it will be a international duopoly, not just a Swiss (as it currently exists in the food market). Note that Apple has already been targeted by the US authorities for fixing e-book prices.
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  #918  
Old 02.09.2012, 14:19
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Because by putting the smaller shops out of business
Just a comment:

I am not putting smaller shops out of business. No, the smaller shops are putting themselves out of business, by their inability to offer a product that I wish to buy, in an atmosphere I find enjoyable, at a price I percieve to be good value.

I see no reason to support a business that does not provide what I need. A business is not a charity - a business must adapt to changing customer needs, or die. Too many small businesses refuse to recognize that the customer is essential to their continued success.

I have found a handful of local businesses who do provide all of the above; I happily do business with them, and will continue to do so. But I feel no guilt about purchasing most of my goods and services elsewhere - small businesses have only themselves to blame if they have driven their customers away.
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Old 02.09.2012, 14:27
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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Just a comment:

I am not putting smaller shops out of business. No, the smaller shops are putting themselves out of business, by their inability to offer a product that I wish to buy, in an atmosphere I find enjoyable, at a price I percieve to be good value.

I see no reason to support a business that does not provide what I need. A business is not a charity - a business must adapt to changing customer needs, or die. Too many small businesses refuse to recognize that the customer is essential to their continued success.

I have found a handful of local businesses who do provide all of the above; I happily do business with them, and will continue to do so. But I feel no guilt about purchasing most of my goods and services elsewhere - small businesses have only themselves to blame if they have driven their customers away.
Very well put!! This is just what happened in Australia and I see the swiss book shops are exactly in this category, all they care about is high prices and assume the customers will keep coming, well the news is that if the customers go elsewhere then it is the shops that killed themselves, don't go blaming the customers for going to a better more customer focussed business that is not stuck in the last century.
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Old 02.09.2012, 14:47
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Re: Absurd Swiss prices

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I am not putting smaller shops out of business. No, the smaller shops are putting themselves out of business, by their inability to offer a product that I wish to buy, in an atmosphere I find enjoyable, at a price I percieve to be good value.

I see no reason to support a business that does not provide what I need. A business is not a charity - a business must adapt to changing customer needs, or die. Too many small businesses refuse to recognize that the customer is essential to their continued success.
Spot on.

I really would like to use Orell Füssli but they make it very difficult to have any sympathy with.

Richard Ford's new book Canada was an example last month for me:
Orell Füssli - 48 CHF (£32)
Amazon UK £9.99
(both hardback edition)

I mean, come on Orell - you have got to be having a laugh.
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