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Old 21.05.2009, 13:05
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Swiss management

I was thrown into a management position when I got here, kinowing very little about this job title and discription. I have learned a LOT , and the hard way. I cant believe or understand some of the employment laws that the Swiss have to follow . Please correct me if I am wrong ...we are in the Hospitality business
1. Swiss people do not want the service jobs, unless they are extreamly bored and want a place to socialize with other "house fraus". And I hear all possible employees start their interview with the words " I only want to work 20 , or 30 , or 50 percent of the time ???What the F..???? Who starts their interview with admitting that they dont want to work ?
2. this leaves restaurant jobs and service to the Portiguese ( my spelling is horrible , its better in German) anyway these people REFUSE to learn German...Ok it was hard for me to learn German , I am NOT learning another language. They also dont know how to clean to the Swiss standard, why do we allow so many to come here if most of them have poor work standards? My room cleaner walked out on us half way through the season , and now she is collecting unemployment??
3. The whole deal with working 3 day in a row entitles you to have 2 days off, at the end of the season they have worked like 90 days with 30 paid days off ? Oh It gets better , as a manager I am not entitled to have 2 days off a week, so I end up working 7 days a week so my staff can have their 3 days off a week. They are all relaxed and rested , and I look and feel like hell...how does that work , and why?
4. About the stealing ... yes they steal , and lie , and will jump up and down swearing that they have done what you have asked them to do when they havnt.
anyone else mystified by the lack of employers rights in this country?
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Old 21.05.2009, 13:08
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Re: Swiss management

Surely you don't have to work 7 days a week by law... you could take 2 off like everyone else if you wanted?
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Old 21.05.2009, 13:15
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Re: Swiss management

Please don't generalise about a nationality. I know many Portuguese working here in highly specialised and management positions.

Our friend's wife called recently to ask when his permit was going to arrive. The office actually said "well, if the building site is inspected, he will need to show a copy of his old permit." His wife was like, WTH!? Don't you mean the bank?. The person on the phone was very embarrased and admitted that she looked at his name and assumed because he was from Portugal, that he must have worked in a building site.

I also only want to work 80%. That's my choice.
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Old 21.05.2009, 13:28
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Re: Swiss management

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anyone else mystified by the lack of employers rights in this country?
Oh FFS! Stop it or you are going to start me crying.

For us to understand the full extent of your suffering maybe you could give us your yearly salary and then the yearly salary of "your room cleaner"?

I had originally groaned at you but considering that you come from the USA I suppose it must be quite a culture shock to realise that there can be laws protecting employees...Absolutely crazy...
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Old 21.05.2009, 13:38
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Re: Swiss management

I guess you can only go by your own experiences. All I can tell you is that when I got my place the garden was a wreck. I've had a number of Portuguese come and help me gradually get it into shape over the last four years and I think you'd be challenged to find a harder working, politer, more honest bunch of people.
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Old 21.05.2009, 13:40
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Re: Swiss management

I dont make a lot more then her..as you know minimum wage here is about 22 CHF
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Old 21.05.2009, 13:55
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Re: Swiss management

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I dont make a lot more then her..as you know minimum wage here is about 22 CHF
22 CHF? No way? Money-grabbing cleaners!

I suppose it's only if you worked here as an employee that you would realise how fair the system is. Sounds like it won't happen any time soon.

BTW I don't think you will get much sympathy on the EF as most expats are employees (and quite a few have been laid off recently by their "poor persecuted" employers).
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Old 21.05.2009, 13:59
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Re: Swiss management

To be fair to the OP, maybe he is stuck in job hell with a few really bad cleaners under his belt that are making life a misery for him.
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Old 21.05.2009, 14:07
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Re: Swiss management

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2. this leaves restaurant jobs and service to the Portiguese ( my spelling is horrible , its better in German) anyway these people REFUSE to learn German...Ok it was hard for me to learn German , I am NOT learning another language. They also dont know how to clean to the Swiss standard, why do we allow so many to come here if most of them have poor work standards? My room cleaner walked out on us half way through the season , and now she is collecting unemployment??
Has any Portuguese bitten you? Your comments are frankly insulting and xenophobic. "These people" as you put it, might even been better educated, speak more languages, spell better and have in general a better attitude than you. I wonder why your cleaner left you and what would she post, should she know this place.
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Old 21.05.2009, 14:19
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Re: Swiss management

Hi Kris
In your profile you give "running hotel with boyfriend" as occupation. The tourist industry in Switzerland (and probably also Austria, Liechtenstein, alpine regions in Germany, France etc.) is probably one of the toughest industries in which to succeed, especially during economically difficult times.

You're ranting at Portugese employees who earn a pittance to clean up other people's dirt. I totally agree with Nev on this one - you'll rarely find a harder working, more honest or willing group of people to do that kind of work.

You say you were "thrown into a management position" in a hotel without knowing very much about the work entailed - well, normally there are quite a few people who'd love to have your job, who have the qualifications to actually run a hotel and wouldn't mind the hours during the classical tourist season, because that's just part of the job.

Concerning part time work: at that salary it's probably the only chance some "Hausfrau" (as you call her) has to earn some money in that region. She's probably married to a man who also earns a pittance, has 2 children to care for and just can't work 80% or 100%.

You've got your horse(s), your boyfriend, you're in a beautiful country and you probably earn enough to make ends more than meet.

Enjoy! and make something special out of this fantastic opportunity
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Old 21.05.2009, 14:36
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Re: Swiss management

I like möpp's positive spirit.

Instead of cursing and fretting at the way people do things here try to understand and accept it.

...It will only make you happier
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Old 21.05.2009, 19:01
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Re: Swiss management

Hi, Kris3n3 and all others.

As a portuguese jobseeker in Switzerland, me and my fiancée have in nearly one month seen a bit of everything.

So i'll kindly disagree even though I understand how frustrating the hunt for work may be. Here's why:

- There are many demands oriented to the swiss educational system, making everything harder for foreigners who were raised in a different one;
- The job market is saturated everywhere around the world and CH is no exception, so the offer is higher than the demand, which means workers have to be more flexible and adapt to the requirements of the employers, something that doesn't happen on the inverted situation;
- People who do not find the "ideal" job will have to work in different areas, especially in stuff they may find below their expectances.

This said, this country is very organized, sometimes to an extreme point, but as foreigners we have to adapt to their rules regardless of where we come from. It's almost like "take it or leave it" if we will.
Regarding the nationality issue you mentioned, i've met swiss citizens doing cleaning and other "lesser" work. I've also met foreigners in higher positions and speaking fluently french or german, including portuguese.
To a more personal level, i've found schvyzertütch (sorry if it's mispelled) very hard to understand and learn but at the same time appealing and fun.

If you want to skip the whole wall of text, the bottom line is portuguese aren't all toilet cleaners and swiss aren't all snobs.
We're all people pursuing a common goal: pay the rent and get some pocket money for ale and booty.

So try to cheer up and better luck with your professional life, remember to keep your head up!
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Old 21.05.2009, 19:18
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Re: Swiss management

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swiss aren't all snobs.
That's a generous judgement from you
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Old 21.05.2009, 19:20
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Re: Swiss management

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To a more personal level, i've found schvyzertütch (sorry if it's mispelled) very hard to understand and learn but at the same time appealing and fun.
I wouldn't worry Chibanga. If you learn to express yourself in Swiss German as well as you do in English you'll not go far wrong!
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Old 21.05.2009, 19:52
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Re: Swiss management

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I wouldn't worry Chibanga. If you learn to express yourself in Swiss German as well as you do in English you'll not go far wrong!
I agree Chibanga - your English is very good.

Good luck with the job hunting. The Swiss are famous for watches and cleanliness - funnily enough, many Portuguese work here in those industries.
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Old 21.05.2009, 20:03
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Re: Swiss management

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I was thrown into a management position when I got here, kinowing very little about this job title and discription. I have learned a LOT , and the hard way. I cant believe or understand some of the employment laws that the Swiss have to follow . Please correct me if I am wrong ...we are in the Hospitality business
1. Swiss people do not want the service jobs, unless they are extreamly bored and want a place to socialize with other "house fraus". And I hear all possible employees start their interview with the words " I only want to work 20 , or 30 , or 50 percent of the time ???What the F..???? Who starts their interview with admitting that they dont want to work ?
2. this leaves restaurant jobs and service to the Portiguese ( my spelling is horrible , its better in German) anyway these people REFUSE to learn German...Ok it was hard for me to learn German , I am NOT learning another language. They also dont know how to clean to the Swiss standard, why do we allow so many to come here if most of them have poor work standards? My room cleaner walked out on us half way through the season , and now she is collecting unemployment??
3. The whole deal with working 3 day in a row entitles you to have 2 days off, at the end of the season they have worked like 90 days with 30 paid days off ? Oh It gets better , as a manager I am not entitled to have 2 days off a week, so I end up working 7 days a week so my staff can have their 3 days off a week. They are all relaxed and rested , and I look and feel like hell...how does that work , and why?
4. About the stealing ... yes they steal , and lie , and will jump up and down swearing that they have done what you have asked them to do when they havnt.
anyone else mystified by the lack of employers rights in this country?
If it's that bad, should you not consider looking for something else?

"It is what it is" springs to mind... Everyone's entitled to a little rant every now and again, and whilst that may help you get things off you chest I would imagine that you've got to like it or lump it. I think it's a tad unfair to come to a new country and then slate what goes on. I appreciate that it might be different to what you're used to, but surely part of going somewhere else is to "embrace" the differences (good and bad)...

Do you have someone more senior to you that you can express your concerns to? Even if it's to understand that "this is what happens here"?

Good luck, it sounds like you yourself are having a tough time of it, so I hope you can get things sorted and be happier.
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Old 21.05.2009, 21:31
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Re: Swiss management

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2. this leaves restaurant jobs and service to the Portiguese ( my spelling is horrible , its better in German) anyway these people REFUSE to learn German...Ok it was hard for me to learn German , I am NOT learning another language. They also dont know how to clean to the Swiss standard, why do we allow so many to come here if most of them have poor work standards?
You are yourself an expat who speaks "little high Greman, Romanish". Your English spelling is atrocious, e.g. "Greman", "kinowing". And yet you are so critical of other expats. You do not want "so many to come here"! Is this not a contradictory and absurd attitude?
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Old 22.05.2009, 09:21
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Re: Swiss management

I know why I quit this forum a year ago .... Wow ...wont be using this forum again..
I have met a lot of wonderful people here in Switzerland, the cultural changes of moving from San Francisco to a remote Romanich speaking village , was not easy . I find it hard to believe that no one else has had difficulty with adjusting. From the personal attacks I have recieved this morning in Private messages , I think all of YOU need a better attitude. I chose the complaint corner because it is a COMPLAINT section of the forum. Its not the section to write that I had a lovely day picking wild flowers. Running a hotel is not easy, and I wonder how many of you that have ripped me a new one even know what the business is about? For those of you that think I sit around all day eating chocolates, your very wrong . I cleaned rooms for the 1st year I was here, abd before our new staff arrives for the season , I serve , clean rooms , the kitchen, check in guests , and out, clean bathrooms , and stay till the last customer goes home. Thats usually a 15 hour day , one after another. You are all so wrong about the job it makes me chuckel. Good bye
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Old 22.05.2009, 09:23
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Re: Swiss management

Yes, thank you very much. We don't know the meaning of hard work. We don't know how difficult it is to adjust to a new culture. In fact, we're all idiots.

But at least we don't just come to this forum to whine once every two years.

Miserable sod. You made your bed. Lie in it.

(Anyone fancy a pint?)
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Old 22.05.2009, 09:56
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Re: Swiss management

I didn't mean to chase you away.

The people on this forum are usually quite friendly if you persevere. True they can be a bit hard on new members.

Why not talk about things you enjoy doing? You will surely get a much more positive feedback.

Sorry if my messages came over as agressive but ranting about employers lacking rights just seems such a strange thing to fight for to me.
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