Sick of America Bashing [and other thoughts about America]
I have lived here for five months. I do not have one complaint about Switzerland. As a matter of fact, I think this country is fabulous. But this continent, as a whole, including the people on this forum, really get their rocks off bashing Americans and I am sick of it. Am I the only one who is tired of being apologetic of the having had the misfortune of being born the "poor, red-headed, stepchild" to the entire planet?
Please do not bombard me with your views on the Iran war. Please do not bombard me with the arrogant Superpower. Please do not bombard me with the injustice of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. I am just an American woman. I neither invited 9/11, nor was I torturing people in Abu Graib (sp?) I never had the infinite fortune to be born into a country that curtsies to a monarch. I never had the opportunity to develop a taste for Nutella, Vegemite or Marmite.
Someone sent me this YouTube today of a wedding in, I think, Minnesota or Michigan, or somewhere in one of those "M" states. I must confess that I shed a few tears. People can say what they want about us, but you know what? We are fun.
If there is an American out there who can watch this YouTube with smiling or crying, then you are truly acclimated.
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I am not sure if people are anti american. Certainly the Bush years did give the USA a bad reputation in the eyes of many people. However, people did associate the american people with the politics of the country. They may been amazed with him being re elected but I don't sense here a any particular anti american feeling. The kids seem to base they way they dress on american culture and many big brand US companies operate here.
Outside of politics I think it is religion that often causes friction and amazement here. When you see reports of Creationist museums etc. It is not anti american just amazement.
In same way most of us do not come from countries where the thought of gun control is seen by many as an attack on people's freedom.
The US is a country to be admired and one I enjoy visiting. I have worked for US companies and have american friends.
I make fun of things in the UK where I was born as I do about things in Switzerland that is normal and human. Why shouldn't we joke about the US as well.
We don't hate American or intrinsically anti american. I think that goes for all the swiss I know.
Have fun and be proud to be american, but also be critical when it is required.
Martin
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I apologize. I don't mean to sound so gloomy. But there are so many great things about America that people elsewhere just don't get. We are so much more than WalMart and McDonalds. That American "can-do" spirit that manifests itself in this video just lifted my heart. I think other people are just not getting that in this day and time about America. It's really a great place and we are not bad guys! 99.9% of you are thinking, "this chick is really naive", but surely I'm not the only one who thinks we are getting a bad rap? (In spite of the fact that the vast majority on 6 continents think Obama is the second coming?)
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I totally agree with what Martin said. Personally I have traveled extensivley through the USA & along the way I have been to some amazing places & met some fantastic people but I don't see why you should not get a bad rap at times. And remember all countries get bashed or slagged off at some point.
I sympathise... though I am not an American, I have noticed how much "bad press" it gets. Personally, there are a lot of crazy things and a lot of wonderful things and some well... not so good things but the not so good are really political IMHO.
Just as I resent stereotypes with regards to "Europeans" or Asians or anyone for that matter, I dislike to judge someone based soley on their country of origin and its politics.
A friend of mine, who had led a very shelterd life in Switzerland came back from a 6 week road trip from the states complaining bitterly, there was no good food, everything was soooo massive etc etc. When I asked him where he had gone to eat he answerd "Macdonalds, but after 10 days I just couldn't take it anymore"... erm... well, no but what about the heaps and HEAPS of good affordable restaurants??? Nope, didn't recognise it so didn't try it .
I shall admit to doing my fair share of "america bashing" but I limit the association with "non-politics".... until the more recent history, America was a much loved and coveted destination... so my point I guess is to give it time, let the bad press settle, far more good is being done now and soon people will forget.
"Today's newspaper is tomorrow's fish and chips wrapper"
FYI - having fun and being a fun crowd is not limited to American's...
I'm British and must say I love America. In addition to being a leader in R&D, modern culture (including Mac D, Starbucks, Hip Hop, RnB, etc) America is remarkable in its true acceptance of different values and peoples. Furthermore, all its people (regardless of race or creed) are so proud of being American. I've met and interacted with peoples of over a 100 nationalities and have never heard someone even come close to the pride you see and feel when an American says "I'm an American". By the way I think people calling Bush a "moron" need to listen to the man before they make conclusions about him. I think he's a bright mind but if all you've seen are clips of what the mainstream media wanted you to see while he was president, you'd think he was a t**t just like I did a while back. He's got a good heart but like everyone, he made a couple of costly wrong calls and screwed up. Obama is a genius as well as the genuine article and I hope people will listen to the man and not the media in both his good and bad times. Bottom line (from my experience travelling in numerous countries over 4 continents) is America has more admirers than it knows
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I'm British and must say I love America. In addition to being a leader in R&D, modern culture (including Mac D, Starbucks, Hip Hop, RnB, etc) America is remarkable in its true acceptance of different values and peoples. Furthermore, all its people (regardless of race or creed) are so proud of being American. I've met and interacted with peoples of over a 100 nationalities and have never heard someone even come close to the pride you see and feel when an American says "I'm an American". By the way I think people calling Bush a "moron" need to listen to the man before they make conclusions about him. I think he's a bright mind but if all you've seen are clips of what the mainstream media wanted you to see while he was president, you'd think he was a t**t just like I did a while back. He's got a good heart but like everyone, he made a couple of costly wrong calls and screwed up. Obama is a genius as well as the genuine article and I hope people will listen to the man and not the media in both his good and bad times. Bottom line (from my experience travelling in numerous countries over 4 continents) is America has more admirers than it knows
Eeep. I will not American bash (particularly not in this thread!), but there are a few things I'd like to comment on.
Identikit places like McDonald's, $tarbucks, WalMart, etc. have helped to destroy America. The interesting places are gone. Chicago looks like Atlanta looks like Denver, etc., etc.
Not sure a lot of people would say hip hop was a cultural achievement. Especially with the degregation of women and glamorization of violence that runs rife through that community.
True acceptance isn't really there. Try living in America as someone who isn't a part of the homogenous crowd and you'll understand.
As for Bush, well, I think his record speaks for itself. No doubting the man has intelligence, but an intelligent person can also be a moron.
I'm not proud of being an American, it was an accident of birth, really. My parents were American and therefore so was I. I am very proud of my ancestors, however, who helped to form the country (they began going over in the 1600s).
I read in the paper today that there's now pressure in Texas for Creationism to have an impact on the History curriculum in schools...I don't mention that to be an American-basher, it just happens that Texas is in America. I'd bash that type of utter mis-education regardless of what country it came from.
And also, it's not such a bad thing to be a red-headed stepchild
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Eeep. I will not American bash (particularly not in this thread!), but there are a few things I'd like to comment on.
Identikit places like McDonald's, $tarbucks, WalMart, etc. have helped to destroy America. The interesting places are gone. Chicago looks like Atlanta looks like Denver, etc., etc.
Not sure a lot of people would say hip hop was a cultural achievement. Especially with the degregation of women and glamorization of violence that runs rife through that community.
True acceptance isn't really there. Try living in America as someone who isn't a part of the homogenous crowd and you'll understand.
As for Bush, well, I think his record speaks for itself. No doubting the man has intelligence, but an intelligent person can also be a moron.
I'm not proud of being an American, it was an accident of birth, really. My parents were American and therefore so was I. I am very proud of my ancestors, however, who helped to form the country (they began going over in the 1600s).
Err - you and I lived in different parts of America, then. ;-) I grew up in Midwestern America, and I've seen plenty of uniqueness in my travels (though admittedly, I've only been to 48 states). Chicago, Atlanta, Seattle, Boston, they all have very different feels, and plenty of uniqueness still exists if you're willing to look.
"True acceptance" exists in many places, though admittedly not all. Still, I've lived in plenty of places in America where it didn't matter if you were black, white, Asian, hispanic, whatever - if you were intelligent and worked hard, that was all that counted. And yes, I've been to one or two places where whites or blacks simply weren't welcome - but they were far in the minority.
I'll leave the Bush comments aside - we've already clearly established that you and I differ in our political views.
And hip hop - well, ok, a lot of it does tend to degrade women. At the same time, a lot of women listen to it and produce it, so... perhaps my opinion as an outsider to the hip hop scene is less important than the fact that it has had a huge influence on music worldwide.
To the OP, I have to say that the Swiss seem by and large the most accepting of Americans when compared with any other European nationality. They love me here - god only knows why - and unlike, say, Paris, I've had relatively few people try to blame me for the world's ills just because I happen to have a blue passport. There are haters everywhere, of course, but dealing with them is simply life. Sorry that you've had such bad experiences around here - mine have been quite the opposite, so I hope things will turn around for you as you meet other people!
Lance
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This is quite unfortunate that a number of people seem to be anti American in EU. I guess some of the arguments as raised above are valid but also it could be attributed to envy of the lifestyle and space that the US can offer. I have a family from my father's side the second and third generation American citizens. In course of my varsity studies I used go visit every summer for 3 month long holidays 1 year in total. IMHO, I found people there very friendly and embracing and somewhat more joyful than Europeans always fun to get together. I keep in touch these days mostly on FB and every now and again I will give a call to find out how they are doing.
There are also few cool US folks on the EF and at work that I met and it makes life easier for me to be surrounded by them in terms of social life and language. Anyway, I can relate to the topic and is not on to be criticized
Err - you and I lived in different parts of America, then. ;-) I grew up in Midwestern America, and I've seen plenty of uniqueness in my travels (though admittedly, I've only been to 48 states). Chicago, Atlanta, Seattle, Boston, they all have very different feels, and plenty of uniqueness still exists if you're willing to look.
I grew up in Cleveland Ohio, spent about 12 years in NYC and then went back to Ohio for a few years before moving over here.
I've travelled the east coast, spent a lot of time in the south (dad is from West Virginia and now lives in rural South Carolina, mom was from North Carolina/Tennessee). No matter where you are you can get a Wendy's burger, a Starbucks latte, a bottle of CVS or Walgreens asprin, etc. You can travel the entire country and never leave the empire of chain stores.
"True acceptance" exists in many places, though admittedly not all. Still, I've lived in plenty of places in America where it didn't matter if you were black, white, Asian, hispanic, whatever - if you were intelligent and worked hard, that was all that counted. And yes, I've been to one or two places where whites or blacks simply weren't welcome - but they were far in the minority.
But if you were not a part of the homogenous crowd, you will experience difficulties. I know. I am not a part of that crowd, and I did experience problems - as have my friends (of all races). You can be intelligent and work hard, but if you don't fit into the cookie cutter of personality/looks/lifestyle then you're not going to be as accepted.
And hip hop - well, ok, a lot of it does tend to degrade women. At the same time, a lot of women listen to it and produce it, so... perhaps my opinion as an outsider to the hip hop scene is less important than the fact that it has had a huge influence on music worldwide.
To the OP, I have to say that the Swiss seem by and large the most accepting of Americans when compared with any other European nationality.
I have to agree with you there. In general, I find the Swiss quite open and welcoming to Americans as a whole. Especially if you tell them you're not so keen on the wars, et.al.
One comments about influence of media. People are quite media-driven these days, and normally bad news sells better. The same goes to for instance to middle East which almost all news are giving listeners a bad reputation while it's not the whole truth, though it's part of the truth.
About USA, I would say there is a negative view in Europe mainly since 1950's which started with wars abroad, feel like a superpower or a hero which can interfere (read it rescue) anwhere,... but I seriously believe there is a little bit of jealousy about some US achievements also on top (though Europeans don't admit!:-).
About Bush, don't 4 get that US peole chose him twice!
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