English speakers in Bern have a bad reputation (and they're not welcome at this shop) - Page 11

evilshell · #**201** 26.07.2010, 23:40

	Quote:	Wollishofener
	In this case, my remark was MIS interpreted as how you look like does not depend on your citizenship. Michael Jackson was US-American but was NOT of Scandinavian origin. He was of Black-African origin. He however tried to chance his appearance towards a "WASP" person. And this, apparently at least, was what lead to disaster. Reminds me of "painting" self-pictures in the home of grandmother. I painted myself with the methods of my older brother, but grand-mom intervened telling me that "this is your brother, but you need to add some brown colours to YOUR picture as there is some difference between K... and you ..."" .... up to that moment I believed to be a ...... but then grandmom told me about her admiration for Ahmed Ben Bella and Patrice Lumumba ...... Some cousins of me did NOT have grandmoms of that civil courage !

Here's what you quoted in your post:

	Quote:
	Just a thought ... maybe they didn't mean to be rude to you on the phone. Their English might not be good enough for diplomacy .. ! I'm sure they were only trying to tell you the honest reason why they didn't want to continue. And hey ... I need to say this once ... after all I'm Swiss German ... nobody I know has anything against English speakers .. !!! The whole "Ausländer" talk is mostly about Easterners/Africans that don't adapt. Please don't be offended.

Unless I've somehow misunderstood, the adapting is about social adaptation, not physical adaptation.

Wollishofener · #**202** 28.07.2010, 00:07

	Quote:	evilshell
	Here's what you quoted in your post: Unless I've somehow misunderstood, the adapting is about social adaptation, not physical adaptation.

What I quoted is as you say a quote and not my opinion. If you understood it in the way that physical features are a "social" matter, than you indeed did totally misunderstand what I referred to.

And, on a more local level, I with some shock saw on here that many UK expats grossly underestimate the regional feelings here, and some Swiss nationals try to ignore realities in a strange way. I in previous posts referred to realities and not just some abstract theories. I did not reply to some posts, as I don't want to portray people as I don't know what exactly .................

evilshell · #**203** 28.07.2010, 01:52

	Quote:	Wollishofener
	What I quoted is as you say a quote and not my opinion. If you understood it in the way that physical features are a "social" matter, than you indeed did totally misunderstand what I referred to.

The OP posted a social issue. You then posted about an appearance issue, appearing to misunderstand what the OP was saying.

simplon · #**204** 28.07.2010, 07:01

	Quote:	Wollishofener
	Rubbish !!! You will NOT understand full Bernese German ... not really . And they will find it hard to understand what you are talking about. I base my remarks on reality seen in military service in this country. If you regard all those who served with me as idiots, you are free to do so, but I reserve MY right to regard you accordingly

I don't see the point in this discussion. Of course we understand people from the Prussian part of Switzerland. We learn German in school!

gonzus · #**205** 29.07.2010, 00:47

	Quote:	fabio
	English speakers when they go to a foreign country should learn the local language instead of living 10-15 years in Switzerland and be able to just say "gute morgen". If english expats are mentally lazy it's an issue that they should address to themselves by studying the language instead of spending all day whining on a forum.

Come on, you are a dude... from Canada... Fess up!

rrs · #**206** 29.07.2010, 01:52

	Quote:	fabio
	English speakers when they go to a foreign country should learn the local language instead of living 10-15 years in Switzerland and be able to just say "gute morgen". If english expats are mentally lazy it's an issue that they should address to themselves by studying the language instead of spending all day whining on a forum.

Shouldn't living in a free society allow one to decide whether or not they want to learn the local language or not.

rrs · #**207** 29.07.2010, 02:14

	Quote:	fabio
	Perhaps the answer given was a bit rude (mostly because I think the guy didn't have manners, but most likely he didn't do it on purpose) but I don't find this to be that strange if understood properly. First of all, a shop owner has the right to decide what kind of customers does he want to address their products to. In this case they might not want to have english-speaking customers because their staff might not be ready to deal in English or because it would be too complicated to prepare everything in English. On the other side I'm worried by reading some of the replies given to this thread: email bombings, coupons given in front of the shops, other forms of boycotting etc.. If I have a shop and decide to not deal with English-speaking customers it's my right to do so and to decide to which public should my products be offered to. It is not discrimination if I don't want to adapt to a foreign language. It might also not be convenient for them to do the effort to translate a product offering in English if the customer base does not justify the effort put in the first place. Perhaps the deli manager was a bit rude, but the cultural arrogance shown in this (like in many others) thread I find it to be much worse.

Complicated? Who translates names of cheeses into English or any other language for that matter. If the shop has the freedom to choose how they do business then on the other side consumers can choose to go there or to boycott if they wish. I did notice that they don't even have Italian or French version on their website, at least I couldn't find it, so their attitude is not a real surprise.

Wollishofener · #**208** 29.07.2010, 08:07

	Quote:	evilshell
	The OP posted a social issue. You then posted about an appearance issue, appearing to misunderstand what the OP was saying.

But, I am afraid to possibly only understand too well what that shop manageress meant

Wollishofener · #**209** 29.07.2010, 08:09

	Quote:	rrs
	Shouldn't living in a free society allow one to decide whether or not they want to learn the local language or not.

ehmm, NO ............................. message too short ? then it is
not really, no

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"

	Quote:	rrs
	Complicated? Who translates names of cheeses into English or any other language for that matter. If the shop has the freedom to choose how they do business then on the other side consumers can choose to go there or to boycott if they wish. I did notice that they don't even have Italian or French version on their website, at least I couldn't find it, so their attitude is not a real surprise.

WHY should they have a French or an Italian version on their WEBsite ?

#**210** 31.07.2010, 18:59

	Quote:	amogles
	Sadly, there is more to this than meets the eye. It doesn't just affect cheese but the whole of UK agriculture. The UK had ans still has some pretty neat products that could be exported as high-end deli if properly marketed. Sadly, in contrast to France, successive British governments have refused to acknowledge that Britain has any high-class farming output and probably wished there weren't any farms at all. The way mad cow disease and foot and moth were handled was scandalous. Now just imagine how the French government would have handled similar events. This is probably why people look at you strangely if you try to mention English cheeses, English fruit etc.

I agree wholeheartedly that the way the mad cow disease and foot and mouth were handled was scandalous. As a country GP, my sister in law had to deal with quite a few near-suicidal farmers.

The last government in particular seemed to be encouraging a class war of town versus country which I personally found quite unacceptable.

rosey · #**211** 14.09.2010, 14:55

Well Mike nice that you mentioned A Slice of Home in Thun stocks your cheese and I do have customers that come from Bern to buy your cheese. So if Loeb had agreed to stock your cheese maybe I would have lost custom. Nice to know we are all helping each other out!!