It's not easy is it, being a 'furiner'? However, perhaps some of us are more lucky than others. If you happen, by chance, here, there or indeed anywhere, to live near good neighbours, or work with nice people - or sadly, vice-versa, to then extrapolate that THE Swiss, THE Brits, THE whatever, are really nice or really cold, horrible, etc. does not make sense.

Meloncollie it is so sad for instance that you have such problems with your neighbours making your life so difficult because of the animals. And yet if you were my neighbour, surrounded by my neighbours, you would be having a wonderful time. Not all people in CH hate animals. And I'm almost sure Nil, that had you lived in Lausanne or Neuchatel, you would have fitted in instantly and felt great here, snow or no snow.

I was so lucky in the UK to have brilliant neighbours (yes and a few horrible ones too) and friends. I really felt at home and totally included. Not because it was the UK, but because I was so lucky. Of course some people and things grated at times, as per normal, anywhere, any place.

I do thing though that if traveling abroad is YOUR choice, and not imposed by work or OH's work - it makes a huge difference. I CHOSE to travel, and therefore I had a very positive mindset from the start, which really really helps.

Love) - Trains on time (mostly) and tolerably clean.
- Better salary than in UK.
- Spatzli
- Lack of Chavs ( where are they? - maybe they killed 'em off! )
- Countryside and Wanderwegs.

Hate ) - Inconsiderate smokers on train platforms
- Not being able to afford a nice detached house like at home.
- Sharing a washing machine.
- Lack of choice in supermarkets and limited opening times
( I'm used to having a 24/7 not far away in UK ).
- Ridiculously expensive meat.
- Not having any social life, not speaking the lingo -
don't even like the sound of German... well-known quote
attributed to Emperor Charles V...
"I speak Spanish to God, French to men, Italian to women, and
German to my horse".
- Decent restaurants charge a fortune, even taking into account
a better salary.
- Faceless concrete architecture (flats usually).

On balance, think I'd better head back to Blighty...

Oh dear! Some things you can do something about, some you can't. Some towns in CH are defo prettier than others. Some apartments have their own washing machine, etc.

Not speaking the linguo is 'easily' sorted - make the effort to learn. And that will solve your social life too, most likely. But yes, if on balance you do not feel comfortable here - why not return to beautiful England. I love it there too- but it has defo got its sores and carbuncles too, just ones that you are more used to.

been here for 11 years, still going through these feelings. There's a macro-trend with a 3-4 year cycle - started with strong hate (what the f*** have I done?), went to okay (move to Ticino, then peak happiness during one year outside CH), returned to mild hate (move back to Zurich), then suddenly switched to "actually like it" when social network started expanding. In addition there's an overlaying micro trend which is largely influenced by the weather - I hate those months and months without sun light and constant drizzle during winter and the rainy summers, but during the 2-3 weeks in between it's actually quite nice.

To the OP: I'm a newcomer, here less than a year. You summed up my feelings exactly.

Thanks for posting. I feel better knowing I'm not alone!

I think it all depand what life you have
as for me it has been difficult not working and
of course some things make me upset ,we are human after all
and no place is perfect.
I can say that the day i will move away from here i will miss some things and peoples as i did every time i moved away from a place ,but that will not be the most difficult place to leave.
I will say that after the not working what make me unconfortable is that some peoples and i do not say everyone ,some have a narrow mind and that is something not good to have in the world we live today

Tried to pm you Meloncollie, but your inbox is full.

i thought i was the only one. Apart from this forum i know no one who speaks english in my surroundings..thank you for writing this. it makes me feel less lonely .

No, they do charge "fees" on top of the VAT -- it's usually about 18 CHF -- it's a Service fee. It's another added cost on top of the 8% And this is all through the regular Die Post, NOT DHL or another courier or "shipper"

And yes, I recently became aware that the 100 CHF exemption includes postage. But this must be something new. Because I've received numerous packages here over the years valued at around the same amount (100 CHF), with the postage charges being around $30 -$40 (additional), and was never charged any duties/fees until this past year. So, as I said previously, it's obviously another money-grabbing scheme. I doubt any other country in the world would charge duties for postage!!!! Probably done to discourage people from shopping abroad

The Post IS a shipper, and they get the money, NOT customs. Other shippers charge more, and some less, but the charge is up to the shipper, and goes to the shipper.

Switzerland only gets the 8% VAT, nothing more.


All the neighboring countries get 20+%, some as much as 25% , so paying Swiss VAT is the cheaper option!

Tom

Since nobody else seems to have taken this question up...

Walk up your local hill (doesn't have to be a big one) right to the top. Park yourself on a bench right at the top (there is always one) and look out - all the way across - little villages and church spires in the valley and snow-capped mountains in the distance. Those are the Alps. You walked here. From your house. (OK, your apartment block. Still.) In fact, look back down and try to find your house. Then walk back down to it.

I'm from a flat country and grew up reading about the Alps so maybe this isn't as thrilling for some people, but it does the trick for me every time.

So what? None of this makes any difference to me. I live HERE, NOT in any of the neighboring countries; I don't care what happens in the neighboring countries, and I don't care if the VAT is cheaper here. I object to these charges/fees (and I couldn't care less what they're for) and this is one of the things I hate about living here -- fees and charges for everything and constantly feeling ripped off.

I'm only stating my opinion as others have done in this thread. If you disagree, fine. If you're happy paying 8% VAT and fees on Gift packages worth +/-100 CHF and postage from abroad, be my guest, and pay away. But it's not going to change my disdain for the system here.

This thread is about people's Love/Hate relationships with CH. Nobody here has to justify, to you or anyone else, WHY they feel the way they do.

Sorry, Odile - for some reason I can't (or can't figure out how to ) access the PM function while on my phone/tablet, so I can't clean it out, or even read mesages. Until I get back to a real computer, which may be quite some time yet, I'm not PM-able.

(Appologies for the OT diversion, Mods, but... )

I absolutely LOVE the low VAT!

And I HATE all the moaners!

Tom

Welcome GammaSutra,
love your name lol.
it take time and you do come from a lovely Island
i hope you will find nice peoples.
Take care

*LMAO*

Okay, you're entitled to love/hate whatever/whomever

FWIW, I LOVE Swiss chocolate and that is one thing here I DON'T mind paying extra for (everyone's got their priorities, right?)

A long vacation in December/January in the Southern Hemisphere or near the Equator.

A trip per year to London, and at least two to Berlin.

Frequent weekends in Italy and Spain to see my family.

As frequent as possible trips to Germany so I can enjoy the feeling of understanding what people are saying. Same goes for trips to Geneva.

Then I come back, reenergized, and I can deal with it all again. Yes, today is one of those "hate days". The snow doesn't help. But it's spring in a little over a month, so all will be well

I dislike (hate is too strong a word for me) the Swiss people who think they are superior, just because they are Swiss.

The people who are so unhappy they have made it their goal to make everyone in their path unhappy too.

The woman in the Caritas shop where I was browsing who just because a handbag tipped up, had to rush over to me and state "you can't buy that until the 24th... or what ever of February", "I know woman", sorry I bumped into your over priced schitt today!

The woman who did my feet and told me she had nothing against foreigners as long as we didn't disagree with Switzerland's policies. I never went back.

Blochers disgusting hangy, blubbery, lower lip. I can't confess on line what I'd like to do to it but my husband had to hurry me away when Blocher was the top guy at the sexi lauten and getting more of his fair share of the bouquets. I did a discrete boohh and I think a few of the people around me wanted to lynch me. I enjoyed myself thoroughly.

I love conversations with the older generations in migros.

When I got back from 2 years in Australia, I remember standing on the Gemüsebrücke and thinking "I'm home". I'd spent 9 years in Switzerland before then.

Catching up with new arrivals from the South of England who were so ready to put me in my North West of England box.

Escaping the North/South divide in the early 80's and being judged purely on my merits because I was speaking Swiss german.

Whizzing through the town on my bike to the shops and feeling....this is my home.

I could go on for ever from both sides....but I've got a pan of spuds on the stove.

Right now I can't honestly say I love the place. Especially as this winter in this part of Switzerland is not the pleasant, sunny winter that we've had in previous years - its absolutely bloody miserable.

I would say most of the year my attitude is that the place serves a purpose. Sometimes it is infuriating - particularly all the cliched anally retentive elements of life here. Othertimes - usually on a sunny late spring day - I can go out on my bike look at the scenery, gruezi a few folk and genuinely feel that at that moment there is nowhere else I would rather be in the world.

As far as the love/hate swings go - these are very common feelings for foreigners living in new countries. I have experienced the swing more extremely in places I had a genuine love for - Switzerland does not bring out such extreme feeling in me.

Great thread KF!

I've been here for almost 4 years. It has indeed been a rollercoaster ride. From the initial: "ooooh everything is sooo pretty!" to "WTF?? Why dont they have more variety in the supermarkets?!", "HOW MUCH?!!", "gah, I miss home, the food is rubbish!"

But coming from a country very similar to Switzerland - the rules, the safety, the efficiency etc - I settled in pretty quickly after trying to understand the rationale for the things I didnt like.

Except for one incident with the neighbours (I found out that the wife is a little loopy recently) - I never had the (touch wood) terrible experiences shared by many expats on this forum. Sure, they are all reserved and distant but I am a private person myself and didnt have much to do with the neighbours back home anyway.

Learning the language has also helped me tremendously. Its as if someone flicked a switch to the light in the room on. I am still in the beginner stages of learning German but I try using the language shamelessly whenever I can and the difference in attitude - from the polite and distant one that I usually get (and didnt mind before), to small talk, warm smiles, freebies and fantastic service - is remarkable.

I went home recently for 2 weeks after 3 years here. Whilst it was great seeing family, friends and stuffing my face with local food, by the end of the first week, I looked at my husband and burst out to his surprise (since I've been moaning about being super homesick): "I miss Zürich!"

I've subconsciously made this place my home without even realising it.