Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 08.07.2008, 21:10
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,674
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Quote:
View Post
I'm not sure about the legal situation, but isn't it so that they cannot serve me a 'Betreibung' until after they have sent me the bill by regsitered post. As long as I always pay up when it comes to that they can't get me? Or am I being too simplistic here?
As Richard states in the original post, no further notice is legally required to start the Betreibung process.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Nathu for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 08.07.2008, 21:54
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,857
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Quote:
View Post

I have a post account, this service is called Debit Direct there and can be used p.e. for phone bills. There's enough time to review the bill before the money gets transferred.
The payer has 30 days time to demand reversal of a Direct Debit. The Banks are then obliged to reverse the transaction refund the payer.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Goldtop for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 14.08.2008, 13:56
Laurel Moore's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 37
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Laurel Moore has no particular reputation at present
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Very useful Richard,
I've just received a poursuite of 70 francs from a company I don't even recognize. I have asked for an explanation and said that I don't even know their company, and they didn't even have my correct address.
They have sent my letter back with no explanation, just said it was a 'frais poursuite'. Surely I am entitled to an explanation? Something?
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 14.08.2008, 14:01
Laurel Moore's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 37
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Laurel Moore has no particular reputation at present
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

In addition, we signed to buy a house here. Then pulled out legitimately seven days after signing the contract. Which I know if our right here in Switzerland.
A couple of weeks later we receive a bill for 3000 francs!! For costs to the notary and to cover their costs I guess. They did have some interviews with us and show us design. But since they never mentioned any cost, we assumed it was part of the service! We only had a few meetings with them. How can they think to charge us 3000 francs.
But I mean, do they have any right to charge us for this? We kept all our letters to them etc.
I'm so tired of being ripped off here. It has happened to us so many times now.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 14.08.2008, 14:24
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 6,505
Groaned at 304 Times in 201 Posts
Thanked 8,082 Times in 2,889 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Quote:
View Post
In addition, we signed to buy a house here. Then pulled out legitimately seven days after signing the contract. Which I know if our right here in Switzerland.
A couple of weeks later we receive a bill for 3000 francs!! For costs to the notary and to cover their costs I guess. They did have some interviews with us and show us design. But since they never mentioned any cost, we assumed it was part of the service! We only had a few meetings with them. How can they think to charge us 3000 francs.
But I mean, do they have any right to charge us for this? We kept all our letters to them etc.
I'm so tired of being ripped off here. It has happened to us so many times now.
They probably don't have a legal right but I do know of one party who put a deposit on a new property and pulled out later and lost the deposit of CHF25,000.

I looked into this before paying a similar deposit myself and was advised that the deposit would be returnable in the event of cancellation less expenses incurred.

Your sellers (individual or company?) seem to have moved fast to spend CHF3000 in 7 days, especially knowing that you could pull out and presumably you had paid no deposit. I would start off by asking for a copies of these expenses...
__________________


************************************
Fed up of smoking? 10 tips to quit in 10 days
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 14.08.2008, 14:29
Laurel Moore's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 37
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Laurel Moore has no particular reputation at present
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Thanks Abfab,

They did give us a copy of their 'legal expenses' some of which were for services of a notary that we never even met!!
They were a company, but we didn't get a good feel about them at the time, which was one of the reasons we pulled out.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 14.08.2008, 14:31
Laurel Moore's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 37
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Laurel Moore has no particular reputation at present
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

It was over a period of about 3 weeks, but we paid no deposit. We felt pushed along the whole time. We even said this to them, to try and get them to slow down. We told them they it seemed like they just wanted us to sign quickly, so they could take our money. So, they were a bit better after that, but still very pushy.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 14.08.2008, 15:02
szhjcn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Affoltern am Albis, Zurich
Posts: 1,562
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 311 Times in 249 Posts
szhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of many
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

1/ We had an Architect that offered us 'Free' initial designs, then if we went ahead with them we would pay for thier service. The designs they came back with did not reflect our dicussions and we decided to tell them we were not interested due to this fact. Later we received a bill based on a % cost of the land. I wrote back to them saying I was not going to pay this as epr our original agreement. I never heard back from them.

2/ I think it was UPS where I received a bill for the tax of an item. The tax was about 8 chf and the costs around 40chf. I faxed them a letter which obviously they ignored as later I received debt collection letters. In the end I paid directly to UPS the Tax plus a bit. Eventually the letters stopped.

3/ CTA came out for a problem on our heat pump. The idiot who came out went to the wrong villages and wanted to include this time on his costs. I wrote on the job slip about this, and sent a fax the follwing day to the company detailing the issue. They still chased me for hte full sum. I paid the amount minus a couple of hours. Eventually someone from the company called our house and left thier details including email addr. I explained the situation in an email to her and she said she'd look into it. She came back the next day and said they had credited the amount and the bill is now closed.

4/ I cancelled my tele2 internet account outside the period (as I'd forgotten they automatically renew the contract which I'm sure must be illegal). They told me I could not do this until.... I explained that I wanted a higher bandwidth and Bluewin-TV both of which they were not able to provide. They just kept sending me the same form. Now I have started receiving letters from debt collector. Not sure how this one will turn out, badly I feel.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 14.08.2008, 15:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,531
Groaned at 125 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Quote:
View Post
4/ I cancelled my tele2 internet account outside the period (as I'd forgotten they automatically renew the contract which I'm sure must be illegal).
Your appartment rental contract is also automatically extended unless you cancel it per the agreed conditions. Do you think it's illegal too?
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 14.08.2008, 15:29
JVC
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Quote:
View Post
4/ I cancelled my tele2 internet account outside the period (as I'd forgotten they automatically renew the contract which I'm sure must be illegal). They told me I could not do this until.... I explained that I wanted a higher bandwidth and Bluewin-TV both of which they were not able to provide. They just kept sending me the same form. Now I have started receiving letters from debt collector. Not sure how this one will turn out, badly I feel.
If you haven't done so already, send them a cancellation letter now, and send it by registered post. I am not kidding, they will cheerfully extend you again, and then start going for that bill, even if you are in dispute over the previous bill.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 14.08.2008, 17:34
szhjcn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Affoltern am Albis, Zurich
Posts: 1,562
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 311 Times in 249 Posts
szhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of many
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Quote:
View Post
Your appartment rental contract is also automatically extended unless you cancel it per the agreed conditions. Do you think it's illegal too?
Yes, but you normally can cancel within 3 months. I don't rent any more, but I always had apartment contracts where the get out time was any full 3 months.

Quote:
View Post
If you haven't done so already, send them a cancellation letter now, and send it by registered post. I am not kidding, they will cheerfully extend you again, and then start going for that bill, even if you are in dispute over the previous bill.
Yes I did that but they say the contract can't be cancelled until March next year.

They might not have liked the fact I used thier Kundigung form designed to cancel other companies contracts so you can join them
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 15.08.2008, 12:43
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,857
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Quote:
View Post
In addition, we signed to buy a house here. Then pulled out legitimately seven days after signing the contract. Which I know if our right here in Switzerland.
A couple of weeks later we receive a bill for 3000 francs!! For costs to the notary and to cover their costs I guess. They did have some interviews with us and show us design. But since they never mentioned any cost, we assumed it was part of the service! We only had a few meetings with them. How can they think to charge us 3000 francs.
But I mean, do they have any right to charge us for this? We kept all our letters to them etc.
I'm so tired of being ripped off here. It has happened to us so many times now.
Ask for a breakdown of their invoice. The seller cannot charge you for their costs. But if a notary/attorney advised you, then the seller can pass on the attorney's actual fees.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 15.08.2008, 12:48
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,857
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Advice to all:
Get litigation insurance! Annual premium is less than CHF 200 per family. Usually covers attorney and court fees for many legal conflicts.

Read the fine print, however, for exceptions. Conflicts with banks and taxes are often excluded. Conflicts with landlords, employers, vendors, etc are generally covered.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Goldtop for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 15.08.2008, 13:39
JVC
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Quote:
View Post
Yes I did that but they say the contract can't be cancelled until March next year.
So did they
  1. accept your letter as a cancellation for next March, or
  2. effectively reject your letter?

if b), then you will have to write another cancellation letter.

Quote:
View Post
They might not have liked the fact I used thier Kundigung form designed to cancel other companies contracts so you can join them
You should not give them any excuse to ignore your cancellation. Don't go into the reasons, simply say you are giving the required notice to cancel by such and such a date (and name that date). Don't forget to send it registered, and keep the receipt in a safe place.

Here's some advice I once came across about cancelling broadband services in the UK:
  • Don't use obscenities, as that will allow them to file your letter in the bin.
  • Don't include any moans or accusations as that may give them a means of saying that they have "improved things so have cancelled your request to terminate the service".
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #75  
Old 15.08.2008, 15:32
Laurel Moore's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 37
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Laurel Moore has no particular reputation at present
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Thanks Goldtop,
We never actually spoke to the notary, we were due to, at our next meeting, which we cancelled when we pulled the plug on the project. Yet, still notary costs were listed with legal costs.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 15.08.2008, 17:28
szhjcn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Affoltern am Albis, Zurich
Posts: 1,562
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 311 Times in 249 Posts
szhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of many
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Quote:
View Post
So did they
  1. accept your letter as a cancellation for next March, or
  2. effectively reject your letter?
if b), then you will have to write another cancellation letter.



You should not give them any excuse to ignore your cancellation. Don't go into the reasons, simply say you are giving the required notice to cancel by such and such a date (and name that date). Don't forget to send it registered, and keep the receipt in a safe place.

Here's some advice I once came across about cancelling broadband services in the UK:
  • Don't use obscenities, as that will allow them to file your letter in the bin.
  • Don't include any moans or accusations as that may give them a means of saying that they have "improved things so have cancelled your request to terminate the service".
Thanks for the advice.

The bill they are chasing is for early cancellation. Unfortuantely when I realised that I was not meant to be able to cancel until March, I'd already signed up with the new provider.

I will write a letter discussing this as you said and explain the situation again via registered post.

What is annoying is they cancelled my Tele2 Phone connection without ANY notice.

If this does not get resolved amicably, then they will NEVER have any of our business again.

Edit: I had my contract with Tele2 for over 3 years I think. So not surprising that I had forgotten the 'fine' print.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 19.08.2008, 15:16
Laurel Moore's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 37
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Laurel Moore has no particular reputation at present
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Update :

We had a phonecall from the people from whom we were going to buy a house yesterday. It was quite aggressive from the owner, saying we owed the 3000 francs. Luckily my husband was home to take the call. (But we guess they were ringing, because they knew they didn't really have a case) They said they'd done LOADS of work for us (well, three half hour meetings plus looking at a kitchen) My husband said: no you haven't!

Anyway, after a fairly heated argument, the owner realized they had made mistakes in the process and in pushing us to sign so quickly. And my husband agreed to compromise by paying half the notary fee (which is about 600f ) So, now we can rest in peace!!

Thanks to all who responded so helpfully

But my advice is BEWARE, in Switzerland. In my experience any service, you may have end up paying for!!
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 09.09.2008, 09:52
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,564
Groaned at 32 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 1,134 Times in 585 Posts
peachy has a reputation beyond reputepeachy has a reputation beyond reputepeachy has a reputation beyond reputepeachy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

I have a type 4 against me.

A Betreibung was issued to me in March for about 5500chf and I rejected it for 2 reasons.
1. I never had a contract with this company, it was my girlfriend (only a technicality I know)
2. There was no way on the planet we owed them the money.

What are the next steps once you reject the Betreibung? Does the plaintiff have to choose to either pursue it or withdraw it or can they just leave it open?

Can such a incomplete Betreibung cause problems with things such as C permits?
Quote:
View Post
I think I covered this somewhere else once... Yes you are mainly right.

The Betreibungsamt while local uses a Swiss wide unique numbering system. This allows no gaps and certain institutions, such as banks, credit institutes and the government have access to the complete list. This shows all Betreibungs that have been issued against a person. I think my current count is 4(3x3 and 1x4). These are then split into four types:

1. You pay the debt and this is marked as settled.
2. You dispute the debt and lose and then either pay or don't in which case it is marked as settled or open. Or partially win and pay or don't.
3. You dispute the debt and win in court in which case they are marked as null.
4. You dispute the debt and the plaintiff withdraws the suit in which case they are marked as incomplete.

If a "normal" person checks your record they only see the types 1 and 2 until such times as the plaintiff notifies the betreibungsamt that the debt is settled AND the entry can be removed. The last part, the removal of the entry, is discretionary! All types 3s and type 4s are invisible to everyone except banks and the government.

If you have an accumulation of betreibungs then credit becomes difficult to obtain even if these are settled or are type 4s. With a type 4, the plaintiff is not stating that you are right just that the effort of persuing the case is not worth the money. These are a bit of a problem and the only way to have these removed is to either ask the company to notify the betreibungsamt that the suit is settled (unlikely) or to go to court to have it removed (annulled).

Any type 3 is automatically "removed" by the court order. These can be ignored, although some companies look down on them as you might be a "difficult customer" or one that asserts his rights...

No credit reference system is perfect and at least with the Swiss version you get to be able to read why there is a record and what the outcome of the claim was. Ultimately it is not the list of defaults or claims for payment that is the problem, it is the way these are interpreted...
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 09.09.2008, 10:56
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,674
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Quote:
View Post
What are the next steps once you reject the Betreibung? Does the plaintiff have to choose to either pursue it or withdraw it or can they just leave it open?
I think the plaintiff can leave it open infinitely. The accused can "counter-sue" for "determination of the non-existance of the poursuite's demands" (in German "Klage auf Feststellung (des Nichtbestehens der in der Betreibung gesetzten Forderung)").

I interpret Richard's quote that this move isn't worth the effort except if your record becomes a problem because the type 4 entries start to pile up.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 09.09.2008, 10:59
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,564
Groaned at 32 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 1,134 Times in 585 Posts
peachy has a reputation beyond reputepeachy has a reputation beyond reputepeachy has a reputation beyond reputepeachy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.

Quote:
View Post
I think the plaintiff can leave it open infinitely. The accused can "counter-sue" for "determination of the non-existance of the poursuite's demands" (in German "Klage auf Feststellung (des Nichtbestehens der in der Betreibung gesetzten Forderung)").

I interpret Richard's quote that this move isn't worth the effort except if your record becomes a problem because the type 4 entries start to pile up.
Yes, I wouldn't bother pursuing it legally unless there was a valid reason to, which there isn't since I have an otherwise clean record.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
betreibung, sticky thread, unpaid bills




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Useful calculator for finding out how much tax you need to pay on 3rd pillar pay out muze7 Finance/banking/taxation 11 20.01.2012 08:37
[For Sale] Complete kitchen [Geneva] pompom Items for sale 2 09.10.2007 14:46
Household bills cbb Finance/banking/taxation 4 27.08.2007 14:31
Paying Bills telandy Daily life 39 08.07.2007 18:53
Time given to pay bills. JuJu Complaints corner 6 15.05.2007 14:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0