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  #141  
Old 09.05.2012, 12:34
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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Good Friday isn't a holiday in Ticino (nor is January 2nd).

Tom
Good Friday is a holiday in the UK (Protestant) but not in France (Catholic).
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  #142  
Old 09.05.2012, 13:19
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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Church bells do not make noise ! but are beautiful
I am so close to groaning you
I hate the church bells with a vehemence, but they are definitely part of the audio landscape here, much like the cow bells...
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  #143  
Old 09.05.2012, 13:30
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

Wollishofener has the uncanny ability to take anything that would be objectively annoying/impractical/horrible/backwards in any other place and justify its existence as an integral and beautiful part of the Swiss landscape.
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  #144  
Old 09.05.2012, 13:54
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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I am so close to groaning you
I hate the church bells with a vehemence, but they are definitely part of the audio landscape here, much like the cow bells...
I just don't hear them anymore unless I actually listen for them. I have a church tower in direct view of my bedroom window, the bells would always keep me up, not any more, the only time I notice them is when I'm having a bit of insomnia and they remind me it's 4 in the morning and I haven't got to sleep yet. I also worked in the middle east for a while and was surrounded by mosque, same thing happened with them, after a week or so, I just didn't hear them. I think it's because they stick to set times and you just learn to screen it out.

I still hear the traffic and people outside, so I don't think I'm going deaf.
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  #145  
Old 09.05.2012, 14:18
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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Well, not the Brits since the National Front and the English Defence League have nicked said piece of textile for themselves.
Only because the establishment crowd didn't know what to do with it.

If you don't occupy positions you shouldn't be surprised when others claim them.

That's why the Swiss are right to be proud of their flag etc.
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  #146  
Old 09.05.2012, 14:24
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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Sunday is NOT a religious holiday, it is a day OFF. Defended by the trades unions and not by religious organisations. Switzerland is NOT a "religion dominated place" . No Swiss politician would even dare to speak in the ways of some US presidents of recent times in public. And few politicians here declare their denomination in public as this is regarded as a private matter. People in Zürich knew that City-President Estermann was a Catholic as he originated from a strongly Catholic corner of the Canton of Luzern but nobody cared. And I cannot tell you the demonination of City presidents Lüchinger, Landolt, Widmer, Wagner, Ledergerber, Mauch, as this was never under discussion
So true, and remember that the CVP, the only major party to actually bear a religious reference in its name is struggling from crisis to crisis because it can't work out whether its religious background is an asset or a liability (and support is low even among religious crowds). The far smaller EVP has slipped to the brink of total insignificance in many parts for much the same reason.
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  #147  
Old 09.05.2012, 20:44
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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I just don't hear them anymore unless I actually listen for them. I have a church tower in direct view of my bedroom window, the bells would always keep me up, not any more, the only time I notice them is when I'm having a bit of insomnia and they remind me it's 4 in the morning and I haven't got to sleep yet. I also worked in the middle east for a while and was surrounded by mosque, same thing happened with them, after a week or so, I just didn't hear them. I think it's because they stick to set times and you just learn to screen it out.

I still hear the traffic and people outside, so I don't think I'm going deaf.
Well you can count yourself lucky about the mosques. After three years I still find it's not something that can be ignored easily - especially in the night when they call for prayer. BTW - the set times thing is not exactly true. The Hijri calender is a lunar calender and as a result is shorter than the Gregorian, meaning that the time for prayer is constantly changing slightly every day and makes a few minutes every month. This can be especially challenging when wanting to go shopping and the opening times are forever being changed. Add to that the fact that (because of the Moon) the times are different for every city. Confusing, yes certainly.

Slightly off-topic; have you heard that by the year 2014 women in Saudi will be permitted to drive? Only problem is, the year at present is 1433 *haha*
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  #148  
Old 09.05.2012, 21:11
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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I am so close to groaning you
I hate the church bells with a vehemence, but they are definitely part of the audio landscape here, much like the cow bells...
the cowbells are NOT part of the audio landscape in Zürich and immediate outer suburbs. In case of the Schaffhausen-Breite church shown above, there were cowbells from a nearby farm which however in the early 70ies disappeared, so that the cowbells also there no longer are "part of the audio landscape"
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  #149  
Old 09.05.2012, 21:16
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

They certainly still are here, thank goodness! Some Genevans petitioned the council to ask for the cow bells to be forbidden as it disturbed their sleep when they came here to their secondary residences. They were told in no uncertain terms that if they didn't like it, they could go back to Geneva. Sorted
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  #150  
Old 09.05.2012, 21:17
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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This is my favorite thing about people. What is high quality of living? Who says a quiet Sunday is high quality? I know people who lament the Sunday thing no matter what country it is simply because it stems from an ideal that they do not believe. When studies measure quality of life, they include things like economics, schools, pollution, stability of government and public safety. I don't recall Mercer saying Switzerland has a high standard of living because people are forced to relax on Sunday. It comes from a religious belief system and one that many people do not believe in. For me, high quality of living is all about choices and freedom. Freedom to chose to do whatever makes you happy. For some, that may be a quiet Sunday with family, but for others that could make for a right crappy day.
HI Jerrallie
Have you ever lived in Spain? I LOVE Spaniards, and LOVE Spain, but I was exhausted from constantly having to put our children/babies to bed, over and over and over, as the neighbors had very late nights. During the warm months, they even put their televisions on the patios, until the wee hours of the morning. Of course, they slept until noon, whilst my kids were up early....I understand the quiet can sometimes be maddening, and I miss little fiestas, but consideration of neighbors is also nice...

Sometimes it is time, to just join the party!
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  #151  
Old 10.05.2012, 07:37
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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In planning for possible trip in two weeks (over ascension weekend) I, for the first time am realizing how hard it can be to live in a place dominated by a specific dogma.
? I don't think I've ever been to another country that has fewer religious people than Switzerland. When I lived in the States, I was surrounded by religious zealots (mainly belonging to protestant sects) and was essentially considered a heretic because I refused to go to church 3 times a week.

Not being able to make noise on Sundays may have orginally been founded in religious belief - today this is purely political. You live in a country with an extremely high population density, connected with an insane amount of noise. The way I see it, people just yearn for some peace and quiet on Sunday.

Peter
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  #152  
Old 10.05.2012, 07:40
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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much like the cow bells...
Do yu live on a mountain top?
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  #153  
Old 10.05.2012, 12:44
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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I didn't say it has anything to do with nationality - but rather with being forced to celebrate something that to you is irrelevant. Why do you treat religion differently?
National holidays are not an opinion. Swiss National Day celebrates the birth of this nation. This is not someone's belief or opinion. It is a fact. The 4th of July celebrates the signing of the Declaration of Independence and founding of the United States. These holidays are celebrating an event, a real, actual historical event. Countries that have Memorial holidays are celebrating actual people who died in actual battle. It is not offensive to celebrate these events because it is not a holiday based on events.

I must restate again that this post is directed at the concept of celebrating religious holidays no matter where they might be. I simply used Switzerland as an example because this is where I live now. Most countries have a form of government sponsored religion and government mandated religious holidays. My post was intended to see how people felt about the idea in general, not as a shot at Switzerland. My comparison with the US was two-fold. First off, I have lived in the US and now CH, so that is my experience. Secondly, the US has one religious holiday on the calendar and Switzerland has 6.
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  #154  
Old 10.05.2012, 12:59
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

Well, it's been pretty firmly established now that it's tradition, not religion. If you want it changed, get a Swiss passport, start an initiative and get a majority vote. It's called democracy.
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  #155  
Old 10.05.2012, 13:42
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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the US has one religious holiday on the calendar and Switzerland has 6.
Actually, we have 12 religious (plus 2 non - religious)

January 6 - three kings
March 19 - St. Joseph (fathers day)
Easter Monday
Ascension Thursday
Penetcost Monday
Corpus Domini
June 29 - Sts. Peter and Paul
August 15 - Mary's trip to heaven
November 1 - All Saints
December 8 - Annunciation
December 25 - Christmas
December 26 - St. Stephen

Tom
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  #156  
Old 10.05.2012, 14:02
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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Actually, we have 12 religious (plus 2 non - religious)

January 6 - three kings
March 19 - St. Joseph (fathers day)
Easter Monday
Ascension Thursday
Penetcost Monday
Corpus Domini
June 29 - Sts. Peter and Paul
August 15 - Mary's trip to heaven
November 1 - All Saints
December 8 - Annunciation
December 25 - Christmas
December 26 - St. Stephen

Tom
January 6, March 19, Corpus Domini, June 29, August 15, November 1 and December 8 aren't public holidays in most cantons here.

Father's day isn't a public holiday anywhere in Switzerland. It's just always on a Sunday, as far as I can tell.

Peter
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  #157  
Old 10.05.2012, 14:38
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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the cowbells are NOT part of the audio landscape in Zürich and immediate outer suburbs. In case of the Schaffhausen-Breite church shown above, there were cowbells from a nearby farm which however in the early 70ies disappeared, so that the cowbells also there no longer are "part of the audio landscape"
I actually quite like the cow bells. And there are fields close to where I live with cows (I hear them at the SBB station/Tram stop). Anyway, that's the way it is.

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They certainly still are here, thank goodness! Some Genevans petitioned the council to ask for the cow bells to be forbidden as it disturbed their sleep when they came here to their secondary residences. They were told in no uncertain terms that if they didn't like it, they could go back to Geneva. Sorted
These sort of things crack me up, and I've heard similar stories in France and the UK. Some people...
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  #158  
Old 10.05.2012, 14:39
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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January 6, March 19, Corpus Domini, June 29, August 15, November 1 and December 8 aren't public holidays in most cantons here.

Father's day isn't a public holiday anywhere in Switzerland. It's just always on a Sunday, as far as I can tell.
They are all public holidays here (Ticino).

And Father's day is on March 19, which usually isn't a Sunday, but is a public holiday (i.e. everything is closed).

Tom
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  #159  
Old 10.05.2012, 14:47
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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I must restate again that this post is directed at the concept of celebrating religious holidays no matter where they might be. I simply used Switzerland as an example because this is where I live now. Most countries have a form of government sponsored religion and government mandated religious holidays. My post was intended to see how people felt about the idea in general, not as a shot at Switzerland. My comparison with the US was two-fold. First off, I have lived in the US and now CH, so that is my experience. Secondly, the US has one religious holiday on the calendar and Switzerland has 6.
Whether or not a country is a "religiously dominated place" isn't just about how many days off have their roots in religious tradition.

I think it's pretty clear that even though the US has only 1 religious holiday, it's a much more religiously dominated society.
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  #160  
Old 10.05.2012, 14:47
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Re: Living in a Religious Dominated Place

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They are all public holidays here (Ticino).

And Father's day is on March 19, which usually isn't a Sunday, but is a public holiday (i.e. everything is closed).
Ticino is the only canton in Switzerland that celebrates Vatertag. It's also the only canton in Switzerland that has father's day on the 19th of March (because it concides with St. Joseph's day). It's an Italian tradition and has nothing to do with religion as it's practiced (or not) in Switzerland. Father's day in the rest of Switzerland is on March 17 this year and is largely ignored by the population. Most people have no idea when it is.
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