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  #21  
Old 08.06.2012, 20:56
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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I draw the line when I can't breathe. Dear smokers, I wish you all the enjoyment and pleasure the way you want, but I really really really need breathing. I know humans are badly designed, but still.
Ahhh reminds me of my teenage years, we'd all sit in a car, windows up, light a big one each and bong the car out. Messy times

Looking back, I have never worked out how we defied science those days, not 'breathing' for 20-30 minutes at a time
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  #22  
Old 08.06.2012, 21:07
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Pardon me if I had written this story before. I forgot.

Once, I lived happily in an old apartment (it was more than 100 years old).
It was renovated and we were happy there because we had our firstborn there. We lived there 8 months and then trouble came.

2 weeks after Junior came home, a new neighbour arrived. Lets just say he was from the Eastern Europe, a garage mechanic and his girlfriend (or wife).

He stays on the ground floor (with garden) while we stayed upstairs (just above him).

Every day at 6am and when he comes home at 6pm, he starts to smoke something very very foul-smelling. I suspect it is not legal, and I was very worried. Junior was just 2 weeks old. It is a mixture of smells, very strong and very smelly.

The old apartment is built badly. Or rather let me explain. The air comes in from our toilet, via the Pressto-button of the WC. It was so bad, there was a constant AIR-JET coming in. I am not exaggerating. I stuck a piece of paper there and it was blown at 70 degrees to the horizon, know what I mean?
I needed to scotch-tape the gaps to reduce the stench.

I talked to the new neighbour, they shrugged their shoulders and told me it was just some Candles. He invited me in and showed me the candles. I then called the police and they came to inspect the rooms. They found nothing coz they could not enter the apartment.

My colleagues from work and the policeman on the hotline, told me, sometimes pot-smokers use scented candles to mask their habit.

I called the immobilien firm and explained my problem.

I moved out immediately.
Problem solved but it was a harrowing experience for us new parents.

Selfish b*stards. They should live alone in the mountains, because smoke cannot be controlled easily.

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  #23  
Old 08.06.2012, 21:30
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Here is a story of what has happened where I currently live in the past 6 months. This may or may not be completely accurate due to communication issues with the person that I asked. He's not completely fluent in English and I'm completely useless in German.

Our neighbours below us (both apartment owners, not renters like us) had a bit of a battle regarding the lower level smoking all the time, including the middle of the night. Apparently, you can/must "come to an agreement" with each other regarding the amount of time that smoking is permitted or not. This should work out to be an equal amount of time for each. The neighbour who lived above the smoker complained, and "asked" that they not smoke between 10pm and 8am on the back balcony (where all the bedrooms are located). There were many loud battles between them out on the balcony that we all had to put up with. The neighbour below, after speaking to a lawyer, tried to get the time extened to a later time in the evening, but the other neighbour refused, saying that they weren't asking for the 12 hours that they could actually ask for. This has something to do with the fact that you must think of your neighbours whenever you are doing something. You cannot just do what you want (this explanation seems odd to me, but I put that down to the language issue, but he did say there is a term that defines this rule in Swiss law). The end result is that there is no smoking allowed on the back balcony between 10pm and 8am. If you can't come to an agreement with the other party, then both parties will need to get lawyers and a judge will actually rule on the agreement that the lawyers draw up. He did say that if you are a renter, then you just have to contact the person or company you rent from and they should have to deal with it.

Maybe there is a Swiss lawyer here who could confirm or debunk the claim of my neighbour. I'm very happy with the way that it turned out, but would love to know for sure that this is actually what happened. I also just assumed that nothing could be done about smokers in apartments as they are just using their own space, so I just tried to not let it bother me.
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  #24  
Old 08.06.2012, 21:40
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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he did say there is a term that defines this rule in Swiss law).
Rücksichtnahmegebot?
Übermässige Einwirkung?
Zumutbarkeit?
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  #25  
Old 09.06.2012, 02:20
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

HAT

That is hilarious
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  #26  
Old 09.06.2012, 11:17
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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Simples
Yes, you're argument does seem to be exactly that.
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Old 09.06.2012, 11:20
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Just wait til they legalize marijuana.
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  #28  
Old 09.06.2012, 11:29
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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I draw the line when I can't breathe. Dear smokers, I wish you all the enjoyment and pleasure the way you want, but I really really really need breathing. I know humans are badly designed, but still.
Go on... 'but still' what?

But still you can't breathe outside? - in the open air? (y'know, now that smoking is banned inside public places n'all that).
What happens? do all the smokers in an immediate geographical area suddenly run over to you and form a tight circle around you & then proceed to all blow smoke at you?

Because if not, & you still have difficulty breathing outside in the air, then I suggest you take yourself to a lung specialist, as you obviously have underdeveloped lungs or some other abnormality.
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  #29  
Old 09.06.2012, 11:32
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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Dear forum members, and especially dear smokers,

I would like to confess that I have developed a strong intolerance toward cigarette smoke. The kinds of smoke that bother me are (1) cigarette smoke in my children’s living and sleeping space, (2) smoke from psychoactive compounds during my walks with my children in the middle of the day. The first kind of smoke is coming from a couple that just moved in downstairs. They are nice people, but they smoke more than an estimated pack a day (a felt 3 packs). When at home, they do this exclusively on their balcony (I am guessing, in order to protect their own living space from their own pollution). Unfortunately, most of their smoke then migrates to our apartment. I do not see why I need to be tolerant toward their pollution of my living space and of the air that my children, my wife and me breathe and I would like to ask you, dear smokers, to help me rediscover that tolerance.
Here are my problems with smoking: Cigarette emissions stink. And there is good reason for that: they are toxic (here a non-exhaustive list of ingredients: tar, nicotine, carbon monoxide, arsenic, benzene, lead, cadmium, etc.). It is obvious that this is unhealthy, especially for little children (a quick search on pubmed.com will confirm this, or go here for a summary of the statistics: http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_stat...s_cig_smoking/). My problem is that second-hand smoke has the same effects - and not even in a greatly reduced fashion (again, a quick search on pubmed will provide you with the science on this matter, go here for a summary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_smoking). My granddad was a heavy smoker and died of his habit. He also was a lovely person, just like the couple downstairs. He may have been very stressed by his memories of the war. And so he smoked a lot. At first, the doctors had to amputate his left leg to save his life. They told him to stop smoking, or he would lose his other one too. He continued smoking and they were forced to amputate his other leg. So the doctors told him to stop smoking, or his heart would stop working. He continued smoking and died at the age of 60 due to heart failure.
Given these facts, could someone please explain to me why I should tolerate smoke in my and my children’s bedroom? Second-hand cigarette smoke is dangerous, it stinks and there seems to be no greater benefit to smoking (except for the tobacco industry). In fact, instead of yielding benefits, smoking is costly to society (and we are all indirectly paying for the higher health care spendings that smokers have due to a depressed immune system and an increased likelihood of developing cancer and cardiovascular disease like my granddad).

I apologize for my intolerance and am looking forward to your responses.
teach your kids to urinate on to your neighbors' balcony, or maybe try beating the dust out of your carpets every time your neighbors come out to smoke.

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  #30  
Old 09.06.2012, 11:38
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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But still you can't breathe outside? - in the open air? (y'know, now that smoking is banned inside public places n'all that)..
If only that were true. I submit into evidence exhibit A: The Zurich Hauptbahnhof.

Seriously, there are massive crowds of people walking through there... why the hell is it still allowed in there?
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  #31  
Old 09.06.2012, 11:49
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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If only that were true. I submit into evidence exhibit A: The Zurich Hauptbahnhof.
Exhibit A has been shown to be bollocks on more than one occasion here.
You can still breathe there, I believe.

Seriously, How many of you ultra sensitive souls are driving around in an SUV or some other idiot wagon for example?
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  #32  
Old 09.06.2012, 11:59
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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Where do we draw the line???
I humbly suggest "6 feet under" and that we put the smokers in the other side of it.


Well, they're doing it to themselves, maybe we don't have to help them along...

Last edited by Corbets; 09.06.2012 at 12:11.
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  #33  
Old 09.06.2012, 12:03
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Guess you drive an idiot wagon, Nil?
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  #34  
Old 09.06.2012, 12:17
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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[B
Lastly, please note, please do proper research on second hand smoke. There is a lot of anti-smoking warped research out there for the anti-smoking argument. Don't read the articles, don't read WIKI of all places, read the statitistics from the actual studies in full, not the WHO report that freely admit they did not publish the studies in full. You will see the second hand smoke argument is extremely flawed.
It's got more to do with the fact that it really is unpleasant for my children to sleep in a room full of cigarette smoke.


I assume you change your clothes sometime during the week - not because you need to but because the smell of your unwashed dirty socks and underwear after a few days would be unpleasant to both you and anyone in your vicinity although it wouldn't do you or them any actual physical harm.
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Old 09.06.2012, 12:21
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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What happens? do all the smokers in an immediate geographical area suddenly run over to you and form a tight circle around you & then proceed to all blow smoke at you?.
You'd be amazed: I hereby officially invite you to follow me every morning. Walking through the station and tram waiting = training for apnea competition.

But if you can breathe cigaret smoke, good for you. I don't use health arguments ever.
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  #36  
Old 09.06.2012, 12:22
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Although you claim the second hand smoke argument is invalid, it still doesn't discredit the revulsion of breathing in someone else's smoke. Even if it was something that was medically good for you (and of course it's not) I wouldn't want to breathe smoke in. It's unpleasant. People move away from campfire smoke when it blows their way, it's worse for cigarette smoke which contains tar, smoke particles and dangerous gases such as carbon monoxide (fact).

Either you're a smoker or playing devil's advocate, but don't try and downplay the unpleasantness of cigarette smoke.
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  #37  
Old 09.06.2012, 12:25
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

If only they could come up with a cigarette that doesn't have smoke or a smell.
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  #38  
Old 09.06.2012, 12:29
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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Exhibit A has been shown to be bollocks on more than one occasion here.
You can still breathe there, I believe.

Seriously, How many of you ultra sensitive souls are driving around in an SUV or some other idiot wagon for example?

Your comment was that it was banned it public places. The ZH bahnhof is *clearly* such a place and it is NOT banned there. In fact, it's quite prevalent. I never argued that I couldn't breathe there.

And for the record, I use public transport 100%.

Last edited by circe; 09.06.2012 at 12:32. Reason: fixed typo :)
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  #39  
Old 09.06.2012, 13:01
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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If only they could come up with a cigarette that doesn't have smoke or a smell.


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Old 09.06.2012, 13:08
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Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

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Looks like a cover-up stick.
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