Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 09.06.2012, 13:47
Leafy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ...
Posts: 905
Groaned at 89 Times in 68 Posts
Thanked 1,458 Times in 560 Posts
Leafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
Your comment was that it was banned it public places
No, my comment was that it is banned inside public places. Upstairs at ZHB is not considered an inside space.
Please read posts more carefully otherwise you end up mis-quoting people
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Leafy for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 09.06.2012, 16:04
Leafy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ...
Posts: 905
Groaned at 89 Times in 68 Posts
Thanked 1,458 Times in 560 Posts
Leafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Oh dear - Nil's red blobbed me over my little ribbing of her.

Sense of humour on the blink is it, Nil?


(just to clarify - that's the little winking smiley - like the one on my other post.... y'know the one that means 'don't take this too seriously')
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Leafy for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 09.06.2012, 16:44
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 294
Groaned at 102 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 235 Times in 134 Posts
Krash357 is considered unworthyKrash357 is considered unworthyKrash357 is considered unworthyKrash357 is considered unworthy
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

I am entitled to live away from second-hand cigarette smoke! But then I am also entitled to live away from the pollution caused by cars and industries! Let's face it, the volume of harmful smoke emitted by cars and industries far outstrips the volume of dangerous smoke that smokers put into our immediate breathing space.

It's far easier to get irritated over a sudden pungent cloud of smoke in your face than over getting exposed to almost imperceptible and low-concentration vehicle/industrial smoke 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

I believe it is hypocritical for someone who drives cars regularly and consumes mass-produced items to complain about second-hand cigarette smoke. Smokers should stop exposing us to dangerous smoke but so should drivers and consumers, i.e. the vast majority of us.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Krash357 for this useful post:
This user groans at Krash357 for this post:
  #44  
Old 09.06.2012, 16:53
Mark75's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: by the lake (either one)
Posts: 2,409
Groaned at 44 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,897 Times in 1,267 Posts
Mark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
Smokers should stop exposing us to dangerous smoke but so should drivers and consumers, i.e. the vast majority of us.
So you're going to lead by example and never use that d*mn, polluting, mass-produced computer ever again...?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mark75 for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 09.06.2012, 17:20
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 294
Groaned at 102 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 235 Times in 134 Posts
Krash357 is considered unworthyKrash357 is considered unworthyKrash357 is considered unworthyKrash357 is considered unworthy
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
So you're going to lead by example and never use that d*mn, polluting, mass-produced computer ever again...?
I am not the one complaining about cigarette smoke I actually smoke. Just wanted to make a point :P
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Krash357 for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 09.06.2012, 18:50
silverburn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Unterageri
Posts: 825
Groaned at 37 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 833 Times in 343 Posts
silverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

The comments about stations are spot on I recon - and it's not just ZHB - Enge is just as bad. All that smoke just catches in your throat. Not what you need at the end of the day after a shit day in the office.

And no - it doesn't stop you breathing, but it does stop you briefly, and you have to force yourself to finish the breath.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09.06.2012, 18:56
silverburn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Unterageri
Posts: 825
Groaned at 37 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 833 Times in 343 Posts
silverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
I am not the one complaining about cigarette smoke I actually smoke. Just wanted to make a point :P
I think the pollution is different in both cases. Smoke is more particulate based with high free radical content, while exhaust smoke is more nitrous based and thus it's effects are based on those. For petrol motors at least. Diesel is more like smoking (but I think the particles are smaller), but difusion effects means you don't notice as much. You'd pretty much have to suck on the pipe of the no 13 bus to replicate being 2ft downwind from Mr Malboro.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09.06.2012, 19:18
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,826
Groaned at 189 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 24,359 Times in 6,546 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

There are now two people who have said that people who drive can't complain at people who smoke.

Why?

I don't drive, but the only way you can make sense of your supposition is that if someone pollutes doing something society considers relatively necessary (moving from A to B) then they can't complain over random pollution elsewhere.

Note that people like me who take public transport also pollute (buses, trams and trains need fuel to run and manufacture), so people who don't drive but who move from A to B also can'tcomplain at smokers.

You walk? Tough. Walking burns off calories so you eat more, which requires the cultivation and transportation and usually packaging of your food.

And to take the argument the other way, smokers can't complain of other pollution. Such as traffic. Or an oil spill. Or chemical waste.

Either that or you're trolling (omg! He called me a troll! I'm not trolling I just used an argument I know is false to derail the thread!).
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #49  
Old 09.06.2012, 19:22
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,146
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,737 Times in 9,483 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Personally, I like smoke (which is why I have a wood/charcoal smoker on my balcony).

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09.06.2012, 19:34
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,826
Groaned at 189 Times in 172 Posts
Thanked 24,359 Times in 6,546 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Some smoke is pleasant - I actually like cigar smoke - it's stale smoke which I'm sure no-one likes, including smokers.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 09.06.2012, 19:55
Leafy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ...
Posts: 905
Groaned at 89 Times in 68 Posts
Thanked 1,458 Times in 560 Posts
Leafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond reputeLeafy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
There are now two people who have said that people who drive can't complain at people who smoke.

Why?
I suppose it was a bit of a troll - my intention was to highlight the ridiculousness of the passive smoking in open air spaces hysterics.

There was even one clown on a previous thread who actually claimed his clothes stank of fags after he'd walked through HB


Btw: I don't smoke, I'm just not a fan of ill researched, hyperbolic, hysterical nonsense either
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Leafy for this useful post:
  #52  
Old 09.06.2012, 20:01
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,146
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,737 Times in 9,483 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
Some smoke is pleasant - I actually like cigar smoke -
Which is why on the few times a year I do smoke, it's Cuban cigars!

I like pipe smoke too, may have to try it sometime.

Hate cigarettes myself, but I sure as hell won't ban it in my house!

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 09.06.2012, 21:22
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,382
Groaned at 442 Times in 346 Posts
Thanked 15,954 Times in 6,287 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
Oh dear - Nil's red blobbed me over my little ribbing of her.

Sense of humour on the blink is it, Nil?


(just to clarify - that's the little winking smiley - like the one on my other post.... y'know the one that means 'don't take this too seriously')
:e:
Did I? Damn! I thought I gave you a green!!! I wanted to confuse you!!!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 09.06.2012, 22:16
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,146
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,737 Times in 9,483 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Meanwhile, this thread has inspired me to light up a Cuban!

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 09.06.2012, 22:23
HAT's Avatar
HAT HAT is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zurich near Zug
Posts: 1,248
Groaned at 90 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 701 Times in 372 Posts
HAT is considered knowledgeableHAT is considered knowledgeableHAT is considered knowledgeable
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
Which is why on the few times a year I do smoke, it's Cuban cigars!

I like pipe smoke too, may have to try it sometime.

Hate cigarettes myself, but I sure as hell won't ban it in my house!

Tom
Me 2, me 2...

But I ban myself in my home...

I actually smell cigar or pipes while riding my moto behind some old guy last week....
I must say, quite stinky.
I'd rather smoke myself than breathe in smoke which had been to black filthy lungs..
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank HAT for this useful post:
  #56  
Old 10.06.2012, 19:06
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,146
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,737 Times in 9,483 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
I actually smell cigar or pipes while riding my moto behind some old guy last week....
Well, my bikes generally reek too much of fuel for me to notice cigar smoke!

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 11.06.2012, 00:42
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,786
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
People move away from campfire smoke when it blows their way, it's worse for cigarette smoke which contains tar, smoke particles and dangerous gases such as carbon monoxide (fact).
Actually, bbq/campfire smoke all contain carbon monoxide as it is the primary byproduct of combustion. The only difference is the fuel.

I do think people have been reading too much of the 'if you're within a mile of a smoker you're going to get cancer' as, exhibit A, George Burns smoked cigars like crazy and he lived to be 100. I think the folks who make the most noise are the ex-smokers which is a bit more understandable.

As for the Hauptbahnhof...it's like being in a basement disco at 4am with no ventilation.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank poptart for this useful post:
  #58  
Old 11.06.2012, 01:01
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,458
Groaned at 309 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 1,248 Times in 615 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

I don't believe 2nd hand smoking is that bad, not worse than taking a stroll among cars etc.

But anyway, I just wish that many smokers could be more considerable, I mean I don't stand among people starting to fart or burp or whatever, why? Because I know that it disturbs people, just because I have the right to do something does not mean that I have to practice that right everywhere...

we're living together in a society here, people need to be more respectful and considerable...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank OSueco for this useful post:
  #59  
Old 11.06.2012, 01:17
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,786
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
we're living together in a society here, people need to be more respectful and considerable...
Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but if you are sensitive to cig smoking, Switzerland is a pretty tough place to be. I remember reading something (in German and I can't find the article online again...) about the Swiss exhibiting a higher than average tendency for addictive behaviors in a study about the successes and failures of social programs like the needle parks to make some behaviors safer and offering aid to quit the addictions, most efforts to that end didn't succeed. I remember seeing mothers smoking next to their infants in prams in the play parks or the mother who held the bottle to feed her infant with three fingers with a lit smoke in the other two and thinking, really? I'm not sure that expectations of consideration are what will win out in the end.

Smoking is, by and large, a chemical addiction, one more powerful than heroin and not something folks leisurely do on a Sunday afternoon when company is over. In your apt, you can either close the windows (I did, but that was mostly due to the lack of bug screens coupled with the ginormous spiders camping out for the abundance of insects) or move since either of those two options is far easier than expecting the smoker to overcome the addiction.

Also, it is with some annoyance that though smoking has been demonized, smokes are sold just about anywhere you go which doesn't make it any easier on someone who has quit or is trying to quit. Smoking is easy to dislike and easy to identify, but in terms of collateral damage, that top prize likely goes to alcohol which claims far more victims than just the alcoholic before it claims the victim themselves. Not liking the smell is understandable but not really all that pressing in terms of real health risks.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank poptart for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 12.06.2012, 23:49
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts
jengelma has earned some respectjengelma has earned some respect
Re: Why should anyone tolerate second-hand smoke in their apartment?

Quote:
View Post
Lastly, please note, please do proper research on second hand smoke. There is a lot of anti-smoking warped research out there for the anti-smoking argument. Don't read the articles, don't read WIKI of all places, read the statitistics from the actual studies in full, not the WHO report that freely admit they did not publish the studies in full. You will see the second hand smoke argument is extremely flawed.
That statement about second-hand-smoke (SHS) is incorrect. Here is the science:
1. SHS is related to "sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), asthma, altered respiratory function, infection, cardiovascular effects, behavior problems, sleep difficulties, increased cancer risk, and a higher likelihood of smoking initiation." See the article "Second hand smoke exposure in children: environmental factors, physiological effects, and interventions within pediatrics." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22206195
2. From the American Academy of Pediatrics: Technical report--Secondhand and prenatal tobacco smoke exposure. see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19841110
3. SHS is associated with increased risk of developing lung cancer. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17267733
3. Another form of SHS, maternal smoking during pregnancy causes birth defects. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21747128

It has to be noted, that these studies are correlational. So the only conclusions that can be drawn are that SHS, or smoking, is associated with increased risks of illness, and not the "cause". For instance, one study concludes: "Pregnant women who are exposed to secondhand smoke are estimated to be 23% more likely to experience stillbirth and 13% more likely give birth to a child with a congenital malformation." (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21382949). This is the reason why some people live 100 years, despite their smoking habits. For most of us "weaker" humans, e.g., those with asthma and pre-existing respiratory diseases, a genetic predisposition of developing cancer or cardiovascular disease (look at your family history for a best guess), smoking is very likely to increase risks of severe illnesses. The same can be said of exposure to any toxic material that occurs in the environment, such as radioactive material (see recent reports on Fukushima and the growing rate of cancer in that region).
Reply With Quote
This user groans at jengelma for this post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
second hand english book shop in lausanne anyone? alittlerisky Daily life 12 07.03.2014 13:29
Why Politicians should keep their fingers out of the financial system Uncle GroOve International affairs/politics 6 25.09.2008 23:17
Question: How much will Swiss Owners tolerate Satelite Installation in their houses? HAT TV/internet/telephone 23 18.10.2006 11:49


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0