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  #181  
Old 09.01.2013, 14:12
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

I'm sure if he "comes clean" on Oprah and sheds a tear or two all will be forgiven and forgotten. After all he must of been under severe emotional strain with all that pressure from his fans, sponsors and the industry itself
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  #182  
Old 09.01.2013, 19:17
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Unfortunately it's probably been a few tough months hanging out with Salmen and Elvis. Not to mention nobody around to constantly feed his ego, which must be bouncing off the walls by now.

I'm sceptical about the apology. I can't see him fessing up straight and clean; it will almost certainly be riddled with caveats, mitigations and blame on third parties.
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  #183  
Old 09.01.2013, 20:17
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Some sources claim that if he admits guilt, that he would then get his titles back. Makes no sense to me.

"I didn't do it" + we think you did it = lose titles
"I did it" + we think you did it = ooookay, you're just a naughty boy. here have those 7 titles back.



And what about perjuring himself? Hasn't he testified under oath somewhere about this?
Unlikely as the reports indicate the only reason he is looking to own up to what the rest of the world has suspected for years is that he wants to be able to compete. At he moment he is barred from competition and owning up will most likely allow him to enter into competitions such as triathalons.
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  #184  
Old 15.01.2013, 10:41
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

American media is reporting Lance has admitted doping during his cycling career in a TV interview with Oprah Winfrey.

Finally....
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  #185  
Old 15.01.2013, 11:18
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

I think it all came down to legal issues with previouos sponsors.

I feel sorry for all the professional riders who have not taken performance enhancing drugs, if there is any that is... And I for one would like to see Lance appologise to these honest competitors.

And I hope that Lance gets out of this in one piece. I don't like him but I don't think he and his family need to be distroyed.

I think it's time that the supporters of bike racing wake up to how dirty the sport is. As the saying goes, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

The real champions are the clean riders who we never got to see, pity.
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  #186  
Old 15.01.2013, 11:25
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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American media is reporting Lance has admitted doping during his cycling career in a TV interview with Oprah Winfrey.

Finally....
I bet most athletes have used or at least have tried anabolic steroids in their careers. Remember that young female swimmer from China? Her performance was as good as the best male swimmers which cannot be possible unless she used some kind of doping...

So let's legalize steroids, this will avoid the murky area of deciding what might be considered as performance enhancers and may the best man win!
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  #187  
Old 15.01.2013, 11:35
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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So let's legalize steroids, this will avoid the murky area of deciding what might be considered as performance enhancers and may the best man win!
If it's legalised then competitors will die at a young age in the tens of thousands. There will be a lot of children who will not have fathers and mothers as a result.

And should there be limits on the amount of steroids a competitor can consume? No. Otherwise we will have the same senario theat exists today, i.e people who secretly take more and mask their activities. Dont forget that a competitor can have drugs in their system but it cannot be over a cirtain level.

So we have no controls with massive deaths or we stick with the current system.

Or we ban power sports alltogether.
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  #188  
Old 15.01.2013, 11:40
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

But isn't the Tour de France much cleaner now than it was?

Slower times would suggest this, and the fact that the British are doing so well
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  #189  
Old 15.01.2013, 11:41
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Time for a book launch methinks:

From the author who penned "It's Not About the Bike" and 'Every Second Counts", here's his new work, "It Was About the Needles and Money Really".

Imagine how tough it must be to basically admit that you've been lying for at least the last 15 years including writing autobiographies that had about as much truth in them as a Bernie Madoff statement of account.

A good opening question from Oprah, should be:

"Well Lance, thanks for coming to the show. What's the easiest way to try and tell millions of your former fans and readers that you made up everything and that you were doped up to the eyeballs?"
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  #190  
Old 15.01.2013, 11:59
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Time for a book launch methinks:

From the author who penned "It's Not About the Bike" and 'Every Second Counts", here's his new work, "It Was About the Needles and Money Really".

Imagine how tough it must be to basically admit that you've been lying for at least the last 15 years including writing autobiographies that had about as much truth in them as a Bernie Madoff statement of account.

A good opening question from Oprah, should be:

"Well Lance, thanks for coming to the show. What's the easiest way to try and tell millions of your former fans and readers that you made up everything and that you were doped up to the eyeballs?"
I feel the same way about avoiding major accidents as I do about avoiding Oprah. No good can come from watching that show. It's a show about getting angry or people so happy they jump around, until they get sad or angry again. To emotional. That show is for the weak ones.
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  #191  
Old 15.01.2013, 12:31
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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But isn't the Tour de France much cleaner now than it was?

Slower times would suggest this, and the fact that the British are doing so well
Yep, plus the massive break-aways don't really work anymore these days.
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  #192  
Old 15.01.2013, 12:39
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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If it's legalised then competitors will die at a young age in the tens of thousands. There will be a lot of children who will not have fathers and mothers as a result.

And should there be limits on the amount of steroids a competitor can consume? No. Otherwise we will have the same senario theat exists today, i.e people who secretly take more and mask their activities. Dont forget that a competitor can have drugs in their system but it cannot be over a cirtain level.

So we have no controls with massive deaths or we stick with the current system.

Or we ban power sports alltogether.
How do you know they will "die at a young age in the tens of thousands"? Steroid use is rampant, and the idiot gorillas on them at the corner gym haven't kicked the bucket because of it. Powerlifting, strongman, and olympic weightlifters are all doped to the gills, and they aren't dropping like flies. I assume you are talking about anabolic steroids here, which I don't think Armstrong used - he probably used EPO and did blood doping.

There is a ton of misinformation about what we call "steroids". Athletes have been using them safely (though surreptitiously) for years. They're simply hormones - your body produces them naturally. Some people produce more naturally than others. We do things such as loaded barbell exercise to artificially induce our body to produce more of them. Cortisone (which IS a steroid) is injected into athletes (and normal folks) all the time.

They are ubiquitous in top level athletics. It's pretty easy to cycle on and then cycle off something like testosterone, and then look normal again, testing "clean". Your closest rival has more testosterone in his blood than you do, and you are just a few milliseconds from his 100 m time, or a pair of kg shy of his clean and jerk. If you are an athlete, with tens of thousands to millions of dollars depending on your performance, wouldn't you try to "level the playing field"? Of course you would, likely because he is doing it too - and that's why it is prevalent in top level athletics.

I suggest watching "Bigger, Stronger, Faster*" for a reasoned view of the current culture regarding steroids. I don't advocate, at all, the use of these substances, but I don't think that they are this spooky danger that everyone makes them out to be. It's more a philosophical question of what we consider legal and illegal "performance enhancement".

Anyway, regarding Armstrong, he's kind of a self-righteous douche, so I don't really care about his downfall. But I think we are incredibly inconsistent with our attitude towards PEDs.
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  #193  
Old 15.01.2013, 13:09
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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How do you know they will "die at a young age in the tens of thousands"? Steroid use is rampant, and the idiot gorillas on them at the corner gym haven't kicked the bucket because of it. Powerlifting, strongman, and olympic weightlifters are all doped to the gills, and they aren't dropping like flies. I assume you are talking about anabolic steroids here, which I don't think Armstrong used - he probably used EPO and did blood doping.

There is a ton of misinformation about what we call "steroids". Athletes have been using them safely (though surreptitiously) for years. They're simply hormones - your body produces them naturally. Some people produce more naturally than others. We do things such as loaded barbell exercise to artificially induce our body to produce more of them. Cortisone (which IS a steroid) is injected into athletes (and normal folks) all the time.

They are ubiquitous in top level athletics. It's pretty easy to cycle on and then cycle off something like testosterone, and then look normal again, testing "clean". Your closest rival has more testosterone in his blood than you do, and you are just a few milliseconds from his 100 m time, or a pair of kg shy of his clean and jerk. If you are an athlete, with tens of thousands to millions of dollars depending on your performance, wouldn't you try to "level the playing field"? Of course you would, likely because he is doing it too - and that's why it is prevalent in top level athletics.

I suggest watching "Bigger, Stronger, Faster*" for a reasoned view of the current culture regarding steroids. I don't advocate, at all, the use of these substances, but I don't think that they are this spooky danger that everyone makes them out to be. It's more a philosophical question of what we consider legal and illegal "performance enhancement".

Anyway, regarding Armstrong, he's kind of a self-righteous douche, so I don't really care about his downfall. But I think we are incredibly inconsistent with our attitude towards PEDs.
OK I'll watch the "Bigger, Stronger, Faster*" video you have suggested.

My point is about competing in an honest way. Not jumping the que ahead of others who are honest. Ok I understand that que jumping is acceptable with some elements of society but to me it's cheating.
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  #194  
Old 15.01.2013, 13:12
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

I just tried to post a link to an old Saturday Night Live Skit "The All Drug Olympics" I couldn't access it because I'm outside of the US.

Stupid Internet...
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  #195  
Old 15.01.2013, 13:26
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Anyway, regarding Armstrong, he's kind of a self-righteous douche, so I don't really care about his downfall. But I think we are incredibly inconsistent with our attitude towards PEDs.
I'm not sure who you mean by "we". Is that us or the Governing bodies of the various sports?

Either way, what inconsistencies do you see because I don't see any?
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  #196  
Old 15.01.2013, 13:32
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Imagine how tough it must be to basically admit that you've been lying for at least the last 15 years including writing autobiographies that had about as much truth in them as a Bernie Madoff statement of account.
Anyone who can keep up that kind of fraud for so long must be ruthless and have no conscience. After convincing so many people for so long, it's hard to imagine that he won't also put in a convincing performance for Oprah.
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  #197  
Old 15.01.2013, 15:11
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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OK I'll watch the "Bigger, Stronger, Faster*" video you have suggested.

My point is about competing in an honest way. Not jumping the que ahead of others who are honest. Ok I understand that que jumping is acceptable with some elements of society but to me it's cheating.
I get what you mean, it just seems wrong, right? Like taking a pill to become superman and gain athletic ability that should come through "hard work". But to me, it's more complicated than that. Especially when it comes to something that our body produces naturally. I read a particularly eye opening interview in Der Spiegel a while back with Angel Heredia, who was involved in that big steroids bust that netted Marion Jones and Maurice Greene. His take was that it is nature that is unfair, by granting some people the ability to produce more testosterone than others, or allowing some athletes higher hemoglobin levels than others. Doping with endogenous substances is an equalizer, according to him. Not sure if I agree, but I see his point. His take is that if the body produces it naturally, we should allow it, because it is impossible to detect anyway. According to him, unnatural things such as amphetamines should be banned.

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I'm not sure who you mean by "we". Is that us or the Governing bodies of the various sports?

Either way, what inconsistencies do you see because I don't see any?
I should clarify - I mean with respect to PEDs and other forms of performance enhancement. A great example was given in that movie I referenced, where Tiger Woods' eyesight improved to better than 20/20 because of Lasik surgery. If that isn't artificially enhancing performance, I don't know what is, and yet we barely blink at it. We've just got something against the idea that we can take a magic pill and become Superman, even though that isn't the case at all. An athlete still has to work unbelievably hard even if they are using - usually, it is just that the PEDs allow them to work harder and recover faster.
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  #198  
Old 15.01.2013, 15:20
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Oprah says Lance "Did not come clean in the manner I expected"

No surprise there.
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Old 15.01.2013, 15:34
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Oprah says Lance "Did not come clean in the manner I expected"

No surprise there.
He can afford good lawyers. And he needs them... a lot of people are going to try to sue the cr*p out of him if he openly admits it.
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Old 15.01.2013, 16:02
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Any interview of LA not conducted by Louis Theroux is in my opinion inadmissable.

Things like Oprah are not interviews. they are carefully choreographed entertainment, and I don't know that I'll be bothered to watch it because I just can't imagine it being genuine, as any genuine apology would almost certainly see Lance with yellow jerseys in his past and orange overalls in his future.
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