Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 22.06.2012, 10:25
sashimiso's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: riehen
Posts: 551
Groaned at 70 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 414 Times in 224 Posts
sashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputation
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
It's an arms race, like computer security. Better drugs/techniques are being developed every day; counter measures, including time to develop detection tests, comes after. Sometimes a lot later.

I remember reading claims that tests done on 6 year old samples from Amstrong tested positive with new tests. Why was this not detected 6 years before? Because apparently the tests did not exist back then!
idk... it is like anything else...

Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 24.08.2012, 08:21
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,029
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,496 Times in 3,132 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

CNN have just reported that Armstrong has decided not to proceed with his defense against doping allegations brought by the US Anti-Doping Agency. All his Tour de France wins will now be negated as well as other wins in his cycling career.

"There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, 'Enough is enough.' For me, that time is now," Armstrong said in a written statement.

You wonder how many other guilty parties are going to have a tough time sleeping with their lies after this cycling bomb shell sets in.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 24.08.2012, 08:39
drmom's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere in SG
Posts: 2,333
Groaned at 13 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,181 Times in 1,045 Posts
drmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
CNN have just reported that Armstrong has decided not to proceed with his defense against doping allegations brought by the US Anti-Doping Agency. All his Tour de France wins will now be negated as well as other wins in his cycling career.

"There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, 'Enough is enough.' For me, that time is now," Armstrong said in a written statement.

You wonder how many other guilty parties are going to have a tough time sleeping with their lies after this cycling bomb shell sets in.

But the negated wins are according to the US ADA, not sure what authority they have to do so? Anyways, I think the whole sport is dirty, I don't believe that anyone is perfectly clean...I had hoped in the past that Lance was clean, but never really believed it.

He still accomplished an amazing feat and has done a lot in the world of fundraising for cancer research. He was amazing to watch back then.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank drmom for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 24.08.2012, 08:46
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 6,522
Groaned at 43 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 9,156 Times in 4,356 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

I have never really believed he was 100% clean, but AFAIK he never failed a single test in more than 1,000. I think the USADA is just posturing and trying to look important. I also wonder what authority they have to pull every win from him, and if it even means anything. All the articles about him won't be re-written, none of the magazine covers taken back, etc.

And let's face it: he still had to race the race and beat out all the other guys for the win, many of whom failed drug tests and were proven dopers.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 24.08.2012, 09:03
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,513
Groaned at 170 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,643 Times in 5,507 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Yes, I was wondering about the US's ability to strip him of his Tour de France titles. I would have thought that would be up to the organisers/cycling authorities of France, not the US. And I still haven't heard what definite proof they have, apart from 10 people prepared to testify against him.

I think the way they have hounded one man over all this is disgusting. I can't work out if it's because he was so dominant and American that got everyone's back up or what. I can guarantee one thing though, they won't be putting the samples from the "new" winners of the Tour to the same scrutiny. They'll just change the records and that will be it.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 24.08.2012, 09:08
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 4,006
Groaned at 110 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
CNN have just reported that Armstrong has decided not to proceed with his defense against doping allegations brought by the US Anti-Doping Agency. All his Tour de France wins will now be negated as well as other wins in his cycling career.

"There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, 'Enough is enough.' For me, that time is now," Armstrong said in a written statement.

You wonder how many other guilty parties are going to have a tough time sleeping with their lies after this cycling bomb shell sets in.
"NEVER QUIT" - Lance Armstrong

Guilty as charged. Next.....
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
This user groans at Caviarchips for this post:
  #47  
Old 24.08.2012, 09:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,127
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 503 Times in 336 Posts
axman has an excellent reputationaxman has an excellent reputationaxman has an excellent reputationaxman has an excellent reputation
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
Yes, I was wondering about the US's ability to strip him of his Tour de France titles. I would have thought that would be up to the organisers/cycling authorities of France, not the US. And I still haven't heard what definite proof they have, apart from 10 people prepared to testify against him..
By not challenging the charge, he is accepting the charge and therefore is admitting guilt. Now that he has admitted guilt, whoever that governs the Tour de France cannot then simply let it be...

Warped...
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank axman for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 24.08.2012, 09:43
sashimiso's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: riehen
Posts: 551
Groaned at 70 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 414 Times in 224 Posts
sashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputation
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
By not challenging the charge, he is accepting the charge and therefore is admitting guilt. Now that he has admitted guilt, whoever that governs the Tour de France cannot then simply let it be...

Warped...
really? that is your assessment? did it ever occur to you that he may just be exhausted by the denials he gets from the courts to stop the process?

Do you know who governs the TDF? Do you follow cycling? Not attacking, just curious as to your background knowledge regarding the issue

I believe if he is guilty, it is literally no more than every single racer in the field. Sure, there are some who claim today and raced this year saying they were 100% clean, but you want to know what, that story is as old as I am (28) and always a couple of years later a new test comes out that finds things that were hidden before

EDIT: Btw.. I have been wrong many times... I supported Greg Lemond for years post racing about how great he is. Met him once at a race, great guy... then he turned into a complete moron, angry at everyone who didn't bow in front of him.

Really miss the Grewal brothers!! No one ever bothered to question them about anything... Rishi had written on his helmet on the inside "Let them hate, so long as they fear"...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank sashimiso for this useful post:
  #49  
Old 24.08.2012, 09:46
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,127
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 503 Times in 336 Posts
axman has an excellent reputationaxman has an excellent reputationaxman has an excellent reputationaxman has an excellent reputation
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
really? that is your assessment? did it ever occur to you that he may just be exhausted by the denials he gets from the courts to stop the process?

Do you know who governs the TDF? Do you follow cycling? Not attacking, just curious as to your background knowledge regarding the issue
I said it was warped. Which part of that you didn't get?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank axman for this useful post:
  #50  
Old 24.08.2012, 09:49
Motorschweitz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bassersdorf
Posts: 389
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 666 Times in 247 Posts
Motorschweitz has a reputation beyond reputeMotorschweitz has a reputation beyond reputeMotorschweitz has a reputation beyond reputeMotorschweitz has a reputation beyond reputeMotorschweitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

So all his titles will now be passed on to the second best doper, right?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Motorschweitz for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 24.08.2012, 09:54
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 4,006
Groaned at 110 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
really? that is your assessment? did it ever occur to you that he may just be exhausted by the denials he gets from the courts to stop the process?
Not for a second. This is a guy who trained every day for 15-20 years to become the greatest cyclist the world has ever seen - through physical pain, mental torture, plus his fight against cancer.

You really think that he walked away from this because he is exhausted by the process?? Really??

You don't know for a fact what happened. Neither do I. We never will. But I suspect that he felt that the net was closing and this is the only way he could walk away with his (probably fairly lucrative) charity/career still intact. This is the advice of smart lawyers and PR people who DO know the truth
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
  #52  
Old 24.08.2012, 10:05
sashimiso's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: riehen
Posts: 551
Groaned at 70 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 414 Times in 224 Posts
sashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputation
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
I said it was warped. Which part of that you didn't get?
i got that... I just didn't get it
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank sashimiso for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 24.08.2012, 10:08
sashimiso's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: riehen
Posts: 551
Groaned at 70 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 414 Times in 224 Posts
sashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputation
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
Not for a second. This is a guy who trained every day for 15-20 years to become the greatest cyclist the world has ever seen - through physical pain, mental torture, plus his fight against cancer.

You really think that he walked away from this because he is exhausted by the process?? Really??

You don't know for a fact what happened. Neither do I. We never will. But I suspect that he felt that the net was closing and this is the only way he could walk away with his (probably fairly lucrative) charity/career still intact. This is the advice of smart lawyers and PR people who DO know the truth
I don't disagree about the facts of his case, neither of us know... As I mentioned a long while back, when I was racing, doping was common for every pro racer. And, I can tell you, every pro racer denied it. Also, having raced for my university at the same time, the testing was no different and just as easy to pass...

There is no doubt in my mind he did something, but, my problem has always been the same, it is a witch hunt because certain countries and organizers hated the idea of him beating the entire field so bad. THAT, in my humble opinion, was based on an equal playing field (as I do believe everyone doped and dopes) so they need to free him from this torture
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank sashimiso for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 24.08.2012, 10:15
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 4,006
Groaned at 110 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
There is no doubt in my mind he did something, but, my problem has always been the same, it is a witch hunt because certain countries and organizers hated the idea of him beating the entire field so bad. THAT, in my humble opinion, was based on an equal playing field (as I do believe everyone doped and dopes) so they need to free him from this torture
Makes sense - but don't you think that it is the responsibility of the anti-doping authorities to go after the poster boys and girls to force home the point? This idea that it is jealousy which is motivating the action seems unlikely to me. Plus - if it IS true that he doped - then he maybe should have walked quietly into the sunset rather than positioning himself as a health and wellbeing guru where he was only asking for trouble.

Anyway, I think that it is very weak and very telling for him to walk away from the fight. There is much more behind this announcement that we will never know about
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 24.08.2012, 10:18
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,029
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,496 Times in 3,132 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
As I mentioned a long while back, when I was racing, doping was common for every pro racer. And, I can tell you, every pro racer denied it.
Two questions then: Did you personally know people who doped and did you do it too?

I heard that in the 1980s and 90s, heroin was used to offset hunger pangs during pro cycling races. Can you shed any light on that?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #56  
Old 24.08.2012, 10:19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Uetikon 'am see'
Posts: 58
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 42 Times in 19 Posts
Alchemy has no particular reputation at present
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
So all his titles will now be passed on to the second best doper, right?

Not necessarily. Bjarne riis has admitted to doping and still has a TdF title.
Most of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th place etc also have doping violations (though not necessarily in the TdF, so it'll be a right shower trying to sort out who should get the win.

The infographic (not sure if you've seen it previously) shows in black those who have doping cases against them.



Infographic courtesy of bicycling.com and linked to from cyclingtips.com.au.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Alchemy for this useful post:
  #57  
Old 24.08.2012, 10:22
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Uetikon 'am see'
Posts: 58
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 42 Times in 19 Posts
Alchemy has no particular reputation at present
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
Anyway, I think that it is very weak and very telling for him to walk away from the fight. There is much more behind this announcement that we will never know about
I think after Vaughters came 'clean' in the NYT the other week, Armstrong was finished.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 24.08.2012, 10:53
Motorschweitz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bassersdorf
Posts: 389
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 666 Times in 247 Posts
Motorschweitz has a reputation beyond reputeMotorschweitz has a reputation beyond reputeMotorschweitz has a reputation beyond reputeMotorschweitz has a reputation beyond reputeMotorschweitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
Not necessarily. Bjarne riis has admitted to doping and still has a TdF title.
Most of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th place etc also have doping violations (though not necessarily in the TdF, so it'll be a right shower trying to sort out who should get the win.

The infographic (not sure if you've seen it previously) shows in black those who have doping cases against them.



Infographic courtesy of bicycling.com and linked to from cyclingtips.com.au.
This is very interdasting.

I remember reading an interview a long while back from Der Spiegel (around Beijing 2008) in which a supplier discussed how pervasive PEDs are in high level athletics. It makes sense to me that all these high level athletes are doped, considering the sums of money that are involved and the fact that it is their livelihood.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 24.08.2012, 11:14
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 4,006
Groaned at 110 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Quote:
View Post
Two questions then: Did you personally know people who doped and did you do it too?

I heard that in the 1980s and 90s, heroin was used to offset hunger pangs during pro cycling races. Can you shed any light on that?
Did the stress of the questioning force Sashimo to quit?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 24.08.2012, 11:15
parnell's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 385
Groaned at 88 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 947 Times in 445 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Cycling without drugs is like rowing without water.

I used to live with John Graham - who raced on the Scottish national team - I also knew Morgan Fox for a bunch of years - who turned pro and competed naturally (I believe) for one season - then collapsed with glandular fever as his drug free body could not possibly cope with the stress.

Cycling is a jokeshop as is athletics and almost all professional sport. The big countries have the best doping programs and therefore the odds are heavily stacked.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank parnell for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
corruption, football, sport




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the average rate per hour charged by dog walkers in Switzerland? Susie-Q Pet corner 12 20.04.2012 11:59
Excessive rate charged by electrician deplanck Complaints corner 54 20.01.2012 18:17
Gaaah! - Charged by Gym 700 CHF! Momus Complaints corner 7 15.05.2010 23:04
Lance Armstrong and TDF ze devil's advocate Football/sports 66 21.08.2009 08:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0