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  #61  
Old 24.08.2012, 11:15
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Good job that the NFL is clean from any form of performance enhancing drugs, would hate to see linemen weighing 150lbs trying to protect a QB worth millions, especially if he was on my fantasy team.
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Old 24.08.2012, 11:17
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

To a point I made earlier - there's a 10 year statute of limitations on validity of doping claims and Bjarne Riis made his confession helpfully after this had passed. the UCI 'requested' that Riis resign the jersey but couldn't force him. So he stays on the record books.
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Old 24.08.2012, 11:19
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Makes sense - but don't you think that it is the responsibility of the anti-doping authorities to go after the poster boys and girls to force home the point? This idea that it is jealousy which is motivating the action seems unlikely to me. Plus - if it IS true that he doped - then he maybe should have walked quietly into the sunset rather than positioning himself as a health and wellbeing guru where he was only asking for trouble.

Anyway, I think that it is very weak and very telling for him to walk away from the fight. There is much more behind this announcement that we will never know about
Can't remember which article I read it in this morning but he apparently gave up the fight due to the toll it was having on his family.

If that is true, then it must have been an incredibly hard thing for him to do as there are few who have his levels of mental and physical endurance, tenacity, sheer dogged grit and determination to succeed in sport and beat a killer disease.

In short, what I'm trying to say if that if he did indeed do it for the love of his nearest and dearest then that's a good enough reason to me.
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Old 24.08.2012, 11:22
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Can't remember which article I read it in this morning but he apparently gave up the fight due to the toll it was having on his family.

If that is true, then it must have been an incredibly hard thing for him to do as there are few who have his levels of mental and physical endurance, tenacity, sheer dogged grit and determination to succeed in sport and beat a killer disease.

In short, what I'm trying to say if that if he did indeed do it for the love of his nearest and dearest then that's a good enough reason to me.
Agreed. "If".
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Old 24.08.2012, 11:47
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

i think they should just allow drugs into sport and forget the whole testing circus.

may even have a side benefit of developing drugs that are safer and more efficient rather than hard to detect.
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Old 24.08.2012, 12:03
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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By not challenging the charge, he is accepting the charge and therefore is admitting guilt. Now that he has admitted guilt, whoever that governs the Tour de France cannot then simply let it be...
He has repeatedly said that he felt the process was rigged against him and that either way he would lose. His recent court case to dismiss the proceedings was thrown out, but the judge made it very clear that he was not happy with the case against Armstrong and felt that the USADA was, at best, conflicted. Lance gave up, IMO, because he felt he couldn't win the witch hunt.

As far as stripping him of the titles. LMAO. Even if he did dope, then everyone else did as well and he kicked all their asses. He made cycling fans out of people who hadn't been on a bike since they were kids, his charity has raised millions, and he has been and still is an inspiration for millions - me included.
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Old 24.08.2012, 12:04
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

all the latest news means is that Armstrong and his handlers are savvy enough to recognize that his livelihood no longers depends upon cycling. by refusing to answer any future allegations, I suspect his team hopes that the public perception of him (which seems to be split pretty evenly between the "he cheated" and "he didn't cheat" camps) will now remain static, which is probably a safe percentage bet.

the only thing that really disappoints me is Armstrong's reference to cancer in his public statement. while you have to respect the work he and his charities have done in the seemingly endless fight against cancer, the references in his public statement come across as disingenuous and are a clear attempt to play upon public sentiment in softening the PR blow of his refusal to respond to the allegations any further.

at the end of the day, I don't care for road cycling anyway, so I have no axe to grind one way or the other. one thing is for sure, though - if Armstrong did cheat, then whatever testing they do is clearly defective, since I don't think anybody has ever actually come out with a legitimate test result that shows anything amiss.
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  #68  
Old 24.08.2012, 12:15
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

After reading all in to it, I think it was very biased against him. He made some enemies. Basically they are charging him without any evidence (he passed tests even right after events, ect), off of heresay from a couple of other cyclists that made deals so that they themselves wouldn't be banned.

If he passed the tests, that is all that really matters per the international agencies. You really can't listen to gossip and use it as evidence, they did that in Salem after all. I am not saying that he is clean, but there is no evidence that he wasn't really.

Really doesn't matter, the USADA have no authority to strip him of the titles. And the other international agencies have no interest in pursuing anything against him, and have ordered them to stop.

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He has repeatedly said that he felt the process was rigged against him and that either way he would lose. His recent court case to dismiss the proceedings was thrown out, but the judge made it very clear that he was not happy with the case against Armstrong and felt that the USADA was, at best, conflicted. Lance gave up, IMO, because he felt he couldn't win the witch hunt.

As far as stripping him of the titles. LMAO. Even if he did dope, then everyone else did as well and he kicked all their asses. He made cycling fans out of people who hadn't been on a bike since they were kids, his charity has raised millions, and he has been and still is an inspiration for millions - me included.
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  #69  
Old 24.08.2012, 12:18
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Two questions then: Did you personally know people who doped and did you do it too?

I heard that in the 1980s and 90s, heroin was used to offset hunger pangs during pro cycling races. Can you shed any light on that?
I spoke about this in that other thread (sorry, too lazy to look it up).. my extent was with blood... to me, I never found it to be dope related as it was mine out, then mine in... but, I suppose that was part of the norm and just made sense... and yes, every single person I knew did it, and yes, they were all much stronger and better riders so it probably was just a waste of time in my case

in terms of heroin.. well, I have heard rumors of many drugs but that I never saw first hand. I should mentioned, I knew riders who did more than blood doping, like taking "supplements" but those conversations were very hush and happened mostly behind closed doors. At the university, none of this was ever discussed (even blood doping) and while everyone knew everyone was doing something, no one asked, no one talked about it, and everyone had their own source.

Edit: btw, I am not proud nor boastful about those days, it was just what I knew. For six months, every single day I would eat a meal, and the purge it in the bathroom... i almost got fired for it once in a restaurant I worked at as they would feed me and then I would go right to the mens room....

thankfully, I am older, lot dumber, and don't care about proving anything to anyone any longer

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Old 24.08.2012, 12:21
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Cycling without drugs is like rowing without water.

I used to live with John Graham - who raced on the Scottish national team - I also knew Morgan Fox for a bunch of years - who turned pro and competed naturally (I believe) for one season - then collapsed with glandular fever as his drug free body could not possibly cope with the stress.

Cycling is a jokeshop as is athletics and almost all professional sport. The big countries have the best doping programs and therefore the odds are heavily stacked.
Cannot disagree with any of this.. and it is funny you mention being natural for a year.. the pressure to keep up, to perform better, harder, stronger, longer... forces everyone into that path
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  #71  
Old 24.08.2012, 12:25
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

I thought glandular fever was passed on by kissing and I wasn't aware of any drugs you could take to prevent getting it.
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  #72  
Old 24.08.2012, 12:27
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

The IOC backed Armstrong in trying to get this case thrown out, the judge reckons the USADA is on shaky ground, yet they still carry on. Frankly, it's none of their business, unless the IOC or Tour de France organisers have asked them to analyse the samples on their behalf. This is a simple case of USADA sticking its bullying nose in where it isn't wanted for some obscure reason known only to them. They have no authority to strip him of his ToF titles and to say they will is pure arrogance on their part. Who do they think they are?
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  #73  
Old 24.08.2012, 12:28
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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As far as stripping him of the titles. LMAO. Even if he did dope, then everyone else did as well and he kicked all their asses. He made cycling fans out of people who hadn't been on a bike since they were kids, his charity has raised millions, and he has been and still is an inspiration for millions - me included.
I'm glad he is still an inspiration to you even though you think he may have doped. That doesn't fit in my moral definition of inspiration ie cheating, but vive la difference

I find the argument that he should keep his titles because he was the best doper in a field of dopers quite strange too, to be honest.

Anyway - I personally think that those of you who believe that this statement is to be taken at face value, that he is taking the moral high ground and is tired of the fight is naive. He and his charity have VERY high class PR advisors (Ogilvy - who also work for Microsoft, Novartis, Dupont and Ford - no idiots they ) who have just made the best out of the cards they were dealt. But we can agree to disagree - that's OK

(PS Ogilvy also are PR agents for National Institute of Drug Abuse. Just sayin')
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Old 24.08.2012, 12:36
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Suggesting that I'm inspired by a cheater then saying "we can agree to disagree " is groan territory for me, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

My comments re "inspiration" are based not only on his efforts on the bike but also his recovery from cancer, his charitable activities, and so on. I'm also not inspired by how he treated Sheryl Crow, but Albert Einstein wasn't much of a husband either... or so they say.

Anyone who doesn't "think he may have doped" has their head in the sand. On the other hand, if they are all playing by the same rules (i.e. they are all doping) can it be considered "cheating"?
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Old 24.08.2012, 12:36
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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I think the two investigations are by two different bodies, that's why.


To be honest, I'm sure they're all well doped-up and the authorities will never get control over it so why not just let them do it? At least eveyone is on a level playing field and there'll be no more 'cheating'.
because doping / drug taking is bad for your health and no sports body can be seen sanctioning athletes using drugs to damage their bodies. the cheating argument is secondary.
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Old 24.08.2012, 12:37
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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i think they should just allow drugs into sport and forget the whole testing circus.

may even have a side benefit of developing drugs that are safer and more efficient rather than hard to detect.
cannot disagree completely though I do not advocate it... the problem is, because everyone is doing it, then everyone should be allowed to continue to do it... until they find a way to really stop it for everyone, it isn't fair to those who are singled out
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  #77  
Old 24.08.2012, 12:42
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Suggesting that I'm inspired by a cheater then saying "we can agree to disagree " is groan territory for me, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Anyone who does not "think he may have doped" has their head in the sand. On the other hand, if they are all playing by the same rules (i.e. they are all doping) can it be considered "cheating"?
Thanks for the benefit of the doubt

IF he took drugs, it IS cheating. Thats a fact, thats the definition. If more people took drugs, they cheated too.

I do find it strange to say that somebody who MAY have taken drugs, and if they did - that they then lied about it - an inspiration, if that is unconditional.

My point about agreeing to disagree was well meant - I don't particularly have inspirational figure or heroes but if I did, you may find some of them disagreeable, and that's OK. For example, its a well known fact that Gandhi once went on a seal cub hunting expedition and fully participated - but I happen to think that he is a legendary figure and an inspiration despite that
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Old 24.08.2012, 12:45
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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and he has been and still is an inspiration for millions - me included.
Are you admitting to taking performance enhancing substances here ....?

I believe that when I played amateur American Football back in the late 1980s that many of our opposite numbers were on coke and testosterone. There were an awful lot of red eyes and nasal issues. From my point of view, squirting up with steroids was pretty common, I can only admit to taking cortisone shots back then, before I was old enough to realize that continued use would cause the bone structure to weaken and crumble. There was certainly this "I have to play Sunday" mentality. We had this guy at our gym who would inject testosterone in the changing rooms and leave his "gear" around. He'd flip out mentally every now and again, becoming very aggressive and losing the plot. He once brought a python to the gym and let it loose, just for giggles. A complete head case, he'd be on steroids for two months and then gave his organs a rest for a month before going back on.

Funny thing, I broke my hand playing ball this year and actually took medical advice to take it (relatively) easy. Will be back for the Zürich Tournament next month though, all drug free.
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  #79  
Old 24.08.2012, 13:10
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Yep, I take steroids. I guess that's what I get for posting on this thread. Selber schuld.

As for you and your football career - "play on Sundays"? So you were in the NFL, eh? Just so we're clear, high schools play on Friday, colleges on Saturday, and the big boys on Sunday. And no, for the record I've never taken steroids, though I had a few friends at McGill who did. Do I respect them for that? Uh, no.

Edit: Just saw you're a fellow canuck, apologies for the sarcastic NFL reference But you can keep the groan.
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Old 24.08.2012, 13:16
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Will be back for the Zürich Tournament next month though, all drug free.
As long as Bircher Müesli and Rivella is not to be found on the doping list, you should be safe
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