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  #81  
Old 24.08.2012, 14:01
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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I thought glandular fever was passed on by kissing and I wasn't aware of any drugs you could take to prevent getting it.
As I understand it , Morgan's body was so overstressed that it became a magnet for any bacteria in his environment - he didn't get it by taking any drugs or not taking any drugs in a direct sense.
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  #82  
Old 24.08.2012, 14:20
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Well, Armstrong does have an exotic first name, which does correlate to other "convicted" dopers...like "Floyd" Landis, "Tyler" Hamilton"...he's gotta be part of the doping mob.

I think Alberto Contador was framed..he had too much at "steak".

Last edited by litespeed; 24.08.2012 at 15:11. Reason: corrected to protect the innocent
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  #83  
Old 24.08.2012, 14:22
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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because doping / drug taking is bad for your health and no sports body can be seen sanctioning athletes using drugs to damage their bodies. the cheating argument is secondary.
Pretty much every competitive sport damages the body in some way. Pretty much every handball player has had various knee operations done, wrestlers have problems with their shoulders.Hockey players regularly get a concussion, which can lead to lasting brain damage. Not to speak of the other injuries they get.

If the sport bodies really were that much concerned about the well being of their athletes, they had to amend the rules of their sports quite heavily. To an extend, that most sports probably would no longer be recognizable.

The reasons why everybody is against doping are the same because of which pretty much every drug besides alcohol is outlawed in our society. The reasons are not rational. Despite Alcohol being one of the worst addictive substances available its consumption is deemed normal. Any other substance than the ones traditionally consumed (alcohol, coffin, nicotine, etc.) is considered dangerous and is stigmatized by our society, expect if it is prescribed by a doctor against some sort of malady.
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  #84  
Old 24.08.2012, 14:37
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Well, Armstrong does have an odd first name
HEY!

Lance
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  #85  
Old 24.08.2012, 14:38
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Doping is cheating, period.

Now, I do not know if Armstrong was doped or not (he's as suspicious as an other pro ahtlete).

What I don't get is the logic of some of you guys:

"Cheating is okay as long as you win" What the hell kinda logic is that?
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  #86  
Old 24.08.2012, 14:41
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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HEY!

Lance
It's alright...as long as you're not high when you give me a lift back from Ducati on Saturday, I won't judge you for it...
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  #87  
Old 24.08.2012, 14:44
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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It's alright...as long as you're not high when you give me a lift back from Ducati on Saturday, I won't judge you for it...
Drunk, maybe.
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  #88  
Old 24.08.2012, 14:53
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Pretty much every competitive sport damages the body in some way. Pretty much every handball player has had various knee operations done, wrestlers have problems with their shoulders.Hockey players regularly get a concussion, which can lead to lasting brain damage. Not to speak of the other injuries they get.

If the sport bodies really were that much concerned about the well being of their athletes, they had to amend the rules of their sports quite heavily. To an extend, that most sports probably would no longer be recognizable.

The reasons why everybody is against doping are the same because of which pretty much every drug besides alcohol is outlawed in our society. The reasons are not rational. Despite Alcohol being one of the worst addictive substances available its consumption is deemed normal. Any other substance than the ones traditionally consumed (alcohol, coffin, nicotine, etc.) is considered dangerous and is stigmatized by our society, expect if it is prescribed by a doctor against some sort of malady.
I don't have any idea what the scope of the word "doping" is, but in the case of steroids the concern has always been that steroids kill athletes. I had a teammate in high school who suffered cardiac arrest and died from steroid use, and the stories of NFL and other high-profile athletes dying from steroid use throughout the late 70's and into the 80's are everywhere.

sports injuries suck (I have unfortunately had my share), but an injury is different than heart or thyroid failure at age 30.
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  #89  
Old 24.08.2012, 15:02
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Who cares ? (well, apparently quite a few according to posts around )
Personally I find professionalization of sport ridiculous. And push for bigger performance at all costs is just logical result of cash flow in it.
Where are the times when sports were done for a pleasure, to be active? And not full time job, hunting sponsors, evading doping tests...
When I look at not-so-popular sports (like mountain climbing), the personal quality of people involved is still great (ie. Ueli Steck, in past Messner, or many other). There is not so much cash involved, the best can make so-so living and finance their activities, but there are no multi-million contracts, prices etc.
Olympic games became joke of a sport for many reasons (who doesn't see it and considers it greatest sport event - I feel sorry for you). Same goes for all of football/hockey/whatever championships.
People, stop watching somebody doing a sport, and start doing it yourself! Who cares who is best? I am good enough to have great time and a lot of fun, and that's all that matters...
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  #90  
Old 24.08.2012, 15:12
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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HEY!

Lance
To avoid offence, I've corrected my post
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  #91  
Old 24.08.2012, 15:14
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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I thought glandular fever was passed on by kissing and I wasn't aware of any drugs you could take to prevent getting it.

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As I understand it , Morgan's body was so overstressed that it became a magnet for any bacteria in his environment - he didn't get it by taking any drugs or not taking any drugs in a direct sense.
It's caused by a virus but let's not get facts get in the way of your argument that he got it from not taking performance-enhancing drugs.
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Old 24.08.2012, 16:19
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Doping is cheating, period.
If only it were that easy. Are blood transfusions (to increase your own red blood cell count) really doping or clever bodily fluid control? Increasing the amount of oxygen that your blood can absorb and therefore transfer to all the parts of the body is nature's way of keeping you maxed up energy wise.

If I was Il Presidente of the World Doping Agencies, I would have a hard time trying to figure out what is legal or illegal. If you look at how athletes train these days with altitude and sea level régimes, their diet and all the rest of the measures they use, it's blatantly obvious that medical options are going to be of interest. There is no way to stop this, period.
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  #93  
Old 24.08.2012, 16:22
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Who cares ? (well, apparently quite a few according to posts around )
Personally I find professionalization of sport ridiculous. And push for bigger performance at all costs is just logical result of cash flow in it.
Where are the times when sports were done for a pleasure, to be active? And not full time job, hunting sponsors, evading doping tests...
When I look at not-so-popular sports (like mountain climbing), the personal quality of people involved is still great (ie. Ueli Steck, in past Messner, or many other). There is not so much cash involved, the best can make so-so living and finance their activities, but there are no multi-million contracts, prices etc.
Olympic games became joke of a sport for many reasons (who doesn't see it and considers it greatest sport event - I feel sorry for you). Same goes for all of football/hockey/whatever championships.
People, stop watching somebody doing a sport, and start doing it yourself! Who cares who is best? I am good enough to have great time and a lot of fun, and that's all that matters...
I can see your point about people often watching far more sport than actually doing it, which is a shame. However, I'm afraid the strive to become the best in a chosen sport usually revolves around one thing and one thing only. Money (something you rightly pointed out.) Of course many sportsman enjoy the glory and excitement of winning, but at the end of the day, if your good at a top sport like football, rugby etc. why do it for free?

Back to the subject in hand, cases like this tend to be "no smoke without fire." When I read this morning that he had decided not to challenge the decision it immediately screamed suspicion at me. At the end of the day, it is something that damages the sport more and is such a sad thing to see just weeks after London 2012 and the fascinating story that played out there.
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  #94  
Old 24.08.2012, 16:43
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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I can see your point about people often watching far more sport than actually doing it, which is a shame. However, I'm afraid the strive to become the best in a chosen sport usually revolves around one thing and one thing only. Money (something you rightly pointed out.) Of course many sportsman enjoy the glory and excitement of winning, but at the end of the day, if your good at a top sport like football, rugby etc. why do it for free?

Back to the subject in hand, cases like this tend to be "no smoke without fire." When I read this morning that he had decided not to challenge the decision it immediately screamed suspicion at me. At the end of the day, it is something that damages the sport more and is such a sad thing to see just weeks after London 2012 and the fascinating story that played out there.
I personally don't care about watching basketball or football, except if both are college, and even then what goes with the bigger teams, like the Penn State incident(maybe at it's worst), anymore.

I used to love playing basketball, and football, but it's harder to do that here. But watching these guys, who are constantly in the news, for murder, for assualt, for rape, for drugs, and the list goes on, makes me wonder why we are spending so much money on watching people that make millions of dollars, and still can't fly straight? I personally don't spend as much money as I used to on sports(watching them or buying fanware), because I am sick of it.

When I watch athletes compete, I am hoping to watch the best one win. And one might assume that sports would be far less interesting if they weren't going so fast, or scoring less, and so on. But people always enjoyed it before. And that's the point. If I am watching something artificially created, even on a global scale, what is so interesting or amazing about athletes only performing based on what came un naturally? For me it's not interesting at all. And rather go to my kids competing with their friends, because atleast they are out there, having a good time, and trying with all their heart to win, but with nothing added.
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  #95  
Old 24.08.2012, 17:00
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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It's caused by a virus but let's not get facts get in the way of your argument that he got it from not taking performance-enhancing drugs.
Where did I make that statement ?
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Old 24.08.2012, 17:06
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Yep, I take steroids. I guess that's what I get for posting on this thread. Selber schuld.

Ahah! You admitted to taking steroids! I hereby find all of your previous posting wins to be vacated, and you can no longer compete in any thread related marathon competitions!

Sorry couldn't resist.
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Old 24.08.2012, 17:10
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

An article on the BBC suggests making doping (with legal substances) permitted, but testing athletes for various levels of hormones etc. If they're too high and a threat to the athlete's health, then the athlete is suspended until their levels are back to normal. No opprobrium, self regulating. Seems sensible to me.

Ok - now tell me why it's stupid!
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Old 24.08.2012, 17:12
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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If I was Il Presidente of the World Doping Agencies
I'd vote for you

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I would have a hard time trying to figure out what is legal or illegal.
this is the biggest problem .. what is, what isn't, what shows false positives/negatives, etc...
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Old 24.08.2012, 17:13
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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An article on the BBC suggests making doping (with legal substances) permitted, but testing athletes for various levels of hormones etc. If they're too high and a threat to the athlete's health, then the athlete is suspended until their levels are back to normal. No opprobrium, self regulating. Seems sensible to me.

Ok - now tell me why it's stupid!

Because the idea doesn't involve five three-legged dwarfs hopping around a drunken kangaroo, trying to find out which one of its orifices has the crack, in a misguided effort to hire Charlie Sheen.
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Old 24.08.2012, 18:35
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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If only it were that easy. Are blood transfusions (to increase your own red blood cell count) really doping or clever bodily fluid control? Increasing the amount of oxygen that your blood can absorb and therefore transfer to all the parts of the body is nature's way of keeping you maxed up energy wise.

If I was Il Presidente of the World Doping Agencies, I would have a hard time trying to figure out what is legal or illegal. If you look at how athletes train these days with altitude and sea level régimes, their diet and all the rest of the measures they use, it's blatantly obvious that medical options are going to be of interest. There is no way to stop this, period.

The pragmatic (and typical for sports) way is rules, lists etc. Blood transfusions are illegal since 1988.

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M1. ENHANCEMENT OF OXYGEN TRANSFER

The following are prohibited:
1. Blood doping, including the use of autologous, homologous or heterologous blood or red blood cell products of any origin.
2. Artificially enhancing the uptake, transport or delivery of oxygen, including, but not limited to, perfluorochemicals, efaproxiral (RSR13) and modified haemoglobin products (e.g. haemoglobin-based blood substitutes, microencapsulated haemoglobin products), excluding supplemental oxygen.

These are the rules of the game. Everything else will get you a penalty=> normal for sports.
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