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  #101  
Old 24.08.2012, 21:10
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Here's the err dope on heroin taking.
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Le Pot Belge, ou « pot des fous », est un cocktail explosif de plusieurs produits dopants et drogues parfaitement décrits par Willy Voet dans son livre intitulé "Massacre à la chaîne" suite à l'affaire Festina qui a éclaté lors du tour de France en 1998. Le pot belge contient :
- un mélange d'amphétamines
- de cocaïne
- de caféine
- d’antalgiques (painkillers)
- d'héroïne
- de morphine
The Festina guys definitely were neither the first, but perhaps some of the last to indulge in this lethal cocktail. I seem to remember they would give this cocktail to newcomers at parties to get them off on the right track...
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  #102  
Old 24.08.2012, 21:18
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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its a well known fact that Gandhi once went on a seal cub hunting expedition and fully participated
Cool, I'd like to do that too (as long as I get to eat it afterwards)!

Tom
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  #103  
Old 24.08.2012, 21:32
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

They can erase him from the record books all they want. The guy is still a hero who made his achievements through sheer bloody hard work - and history won't forget that.
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  #104  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:19
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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They can erase him from the record books all they want. The guy is still a hero who made his achievements through sheer bloody hard work - and history won't forget that.
When you say "sheer hard work"...... It probably wasn't only that, right?

By the way, his autobiography is called "Its not about the bike". Seems like that's true
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  #105  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:37
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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When you say "sheer hard work"...... It probably wasn't only that, right?

By the way, his autobiography is called "Its not about the bike". Seems like that's true
Yea, it's not about the bike: great photographers can make art with any camera; Jimi Hendrix could pick up any guitar and make it sing.
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  #106  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:40
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Nothing that extreme bikers do surprises me anymore.
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  #107  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:45
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Yea, it's not about the bike: great photographers can make art with any camera; Jimi Hendrix could pick up any guitar and make it sing.
Think you maybe missed my point
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  #108  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:46
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Think you maybe missed my point
That's never gonna happen.
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  #109  
Old 24.08.2012, 22:54
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Does beer and pie count as doping? Then i might be a little guilty too.
If you are ever in NYC in June, perhaps you should look into the NYC to Montauck bike ride. Pie at rest stops and beer at the finish! A great ride indeed.

http://ridetomontauk.com/Ride_to_Mon...Home_Page.html
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  #110  
Old 24.08.2012, 23:25
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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When you say "sheer hard work"...... It probably wasn't only that, right?

By the way, his autobiography is called "Its not about the bike". Seems like that's true
How true this has turned out to be, he got good results at a time when doping was at its peak so to say he was innocent is like yeah I am the only dope not taking drugs. He was already on drugs to recover from cancer so its simply a confirmation of what everyone has known for years.

The biggest loser here is the sport which has been trying hard to clean up its image at least this effort can go some way to confirming they are still committed to the clean up.
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  #111  
Old 24.08.2012, 23:41
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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How true this has turned out to be . . .
Yeh? really, so before any evidence is presented . . . it`s already true? Have you personally seen the evidence?
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  #112  
Old 25.08.2012, 01:05
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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I don't have any idea what the scope of the word "doping" is, but in the case of steroids the concern has always been that steroids kill athletes. I had a teammate in high school who suffered cardiac arrest and died from steroid use, and the stories of NFL and other high-profile athletes dying from steroid use throughout the late 70's and into the 80's are everywhere.

sports injuries suck (I have unfortunately had my share), but an injury is different than heart or thyroid failure at age 30.
Of course there are drugs that have pretty nasty effects on the health of the person taking them, and therefore should not be taken. On the other hand there are many substances that will do no harm (at least no more than doing sport on that level does anyway).

EPO for example, when taken in the right way and under medical supervision, has pretty much the same effect on the human organism as a high altitude training, expect that it is much cheaper and thus is available to athletes, who are unable to do a high altitude training.

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n article on the BBC suggests making doping (with legal substances) permitted, but testing athletes for various levels of hormones etc. If they're too high and a threat to the athlete's health, then the athlete is suspended until their levels are back to normal. No opprobrium, self regulating. Seems sensible to me.
In my opinion this would probably be the best solution. It would simplify the whole system, as testing for hormone levels is much easier than testing for various illegal substances. As doping then could be done openly, it would than be possible to do research in this area and minimize the side effects.
Things like steroids would still be severely restricted, as they are basically a synthetic variety of testosterone and anybody who's level of a certain hormone were outside of the natural range would be barred from competing

Last edited by Laertes; 25.08.2012 at 01:45.
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  #113  
Old 25.08.2012, 09:16
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

It's so sadly..but it's not surprise - doping is becoming an usual thing in sport. But I thought that this case was already closed
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  #114  
Old 25.08.2012, 13:20
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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It's so sadly..but it's not surprise - doping is becoming an usual thing in sport. But I thought that this case was already closed
It was several times, but for some reason the USADA decided to go after him and were determined to find him guilty regardless. I want to know exactly what proof they have, apart from some people saying they'd seen him doping. If they've analysed blood/urine samples and found what no one else has found then okay, but if it's just on peoples' word, sorry that's not enough, especially as they've made such a witch hunt out of it. Like it or not America still, supposedly, works on the principle of innocent until proven guilty. Show me the proof USADA; until that happens I say Lance is innocent of the charges.

And they have no power/authority to strip him of his titles, that decision is up to the IOC/Tour de France organisers. USADA have no say whatsoever.
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  #115  
Old 25.08.2012, 14:53
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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It's so sadly..but it's not surprise - doping is becoming an usual thing in sport. But I thought that this case was already closed
that is a funny question because the USADA is going back 15 years with trying to nail Armstrong, even though their own policy says they are to only go back 8 years.
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  #116  
Old 25.08.2012, 14:55
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Apparently the UCI has the ultimate decision, but they, the USADA and the WADA are all joint signatories to the same treaty so if WADA sides with USADA and UCI wants to fight, they would likely have to go for arbitration in, yup, Switzerland.
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  #117  
Old 25.08.2012, 17:25
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Like it or not America still, supposedly, works on the principle of innocent until proven guilty. Show me the proof USADA; until that happens I say Lance is innocent of the charges.
And in the American system, refusing to contest the charges = innocence?

By the way, Ratbert.....don't you think that groaning those who have a different view to yourself and thanking those that agree with you sort of spoils the purpose of a forum like this? I always thought that debating and discussing was kind of the point, no?

Last edited by Caviarchips; 25.08.2012 at 18:09.
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  #118  
Old 25.08.2012, 20:15
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

No, actually I tend to groan posts the same way as if we were having a conversation in person and you said, for example:

"His autobiography is called 'It's Not About the Bike' and apparently that's not the case, ha ha."

At which point, I would probably look at you and either roll my eyes or... groan, but I would for sure make it clear to you, especially if you had been offbase earlier in the conversation, that you and I were in disagreement. For those people present with whom I agreed, I would do things like nod encouragement or, perhaps say "thanks for that helpful comment".

How do you handle these things in person?

Edit, and btw, go back and look at the posts I've groaned, your comment re "groaning those that have a different view to you" is just incorrect. Sorry.
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  #119  
Old 25.08.2012, 20:41
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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How do you handle these things in person?

Edit, and btw, go back and look at the posts I've groaned, your comment re "groaning those that have a different view to you" is just incorrect. Sorry.
I'd enjoy the debate and buy you a pint
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  #120  
Old 25.08.2012, 21:49
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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And in the American system, refusing to contest the charges = innocence?
When they break their own rules just to come after you and you know you won't get a fair hearing? Yes.
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