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  #161  
Old 18.10.2012, 12:38
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

I personally don't follow the sport... but this article new article was posted on my Facebook and wanted to share it

http://www.naturalnews.com/037591_La...ping_NIKE.html
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  #162  
Old 18.10.2012, 12:44
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

In other words, the contempt of the French public (and media) for him right from the start was not American bashing but great intuition.
Nice still that one is innocent until proven guilty. The question ist why it took so long to prove it.
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  #163  
Old 22.10.2012, 14:25
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

UCI president Pat Mcquaid has announced that, following the USADA report, Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles. They are thinking about clawing back his prize money. More later.
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  #164  
Old 22.10.2012, 14:47
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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UCI president Pat Mcquaid has announced that, following the USADA report, Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles. They are thinking about clawing back his prize money. More later.
Thinking about it? Surely if he loses his titles, he loses the prize money ...? And what about any other titles Armstrong won during this tainted period (i.e. his entire career)?

Apprarently Armstrong's charitable foundation has raised half a billion dollars since it was founded (before Armstrong won his first Tour de France). Sadly, I would assume that the foundation's credibility will also be tarnished and its revenue-raising impacted by its (now ex-) chairman's ingrained, systematic lying and cheating. Perhaps UCI could recover the prize money and donate it to the foundation -- and any of Armstrong's offices or positions with the foundation should be roided, I mean voided.
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Old 22.10.2012, 15:20
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

"Lance Armstrong has no place in cycling."
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  #166  
Old 22.10.2012, 16:12
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

I couldn't care less one way or the other about cycling or Lance Armstrong, but the USADA's "Reasoned Opinion" is an embarrassment to legal drafting.
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  #167  
Old 22.10.2012, 16:20
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Take away his titles is perhabs acceptable (in some people's opinion).
But making him return the prize money that he won 13 years ago???
Maybe we should also talk to all the cancer victims he has helped and ask them to pay for the support they have received since Mr. Armstrong "was on drugs" ???

I dont think anyone has been subjected to more tests than him and its been 7 years since he won the Tour de France last time.
If in fact he was guilty then they should ban him from riding ever again and let that be it.
There is no benefit of stripping him of his titles and dragging everything he has done good in his life through the mud.

Truly a sad day in sporting history.
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  #168  
Old 22.10.2012, 16:47
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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If in fact he was guilty then they should ban him from riding ever again and let that be it.
There is no benefit of stripping him of his titles and dragging everything he has done good in his life through the mud.

Truly a sad day in sporting history.
What's the point is banning a 41-year-old who is way past his prime? That would be like banning Margaret Thatcher now from politics. Well, not quite, but you catch my drift ...

Yes, it's a sad day for sport. But the truly sad thing is that Lance Armstrong gained an unfair advantage through blood doping and drug use, lied and evaded fair drug testing for years, and cheated all his fans -- and it took years to prove it. If he'd been exposed just before winning his first Tour, he's have been disqualified and banned, and would have won no title or prize money. Just because time has passed, and he has offended repeatedly and systematically, do you think that somehow makes his offences less serious? And don't tell me he wasn't the only one; that's self-evident, and irrelevant. Fame shouldn't protect people from the law, or fair sporting rules.

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Maybe we should also talk to all the cancer victims he has helped and ask them to pay for the support they have received since Mr. Armstrong "was on drugs" ???.
As I pointed out above, Armstrong's foundation has done a lot to help cancer sufferers. But what has that to do with Armstrong's personal activities and prize money? So now he should be let off the hook because he set up a charitable foundation?
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  #169  
Old 22.10.2012, 17:01
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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What's the point is banning a 41-year-old who is way past his prime? That would be like banning Margaret Thatcher now from politics. Well, not quite, but you catch my drift ...

Yes, it's a sad day for sport. But the truly sad thing is that Lance Armstrong gained an unfair advantage through blood doping and drug use, lied and evaded fair drug testing for years, and cheated all his fans -- and it took years to prove it. If he'd been exposed just before winning his first Tour, he's have been disqualified and banned, and would have won no title or prize money. Just because time has passed, and he has offended repeatedly and systematically, do you think that somehow makes his offences less serious? And don't tell me he wasn't the only one; that's self-evident, and irrelevant. Fame shouldn't protect people from the law, or fair sporting rules.



As I pointed out above, Armstrong's foundation has done a lot to help cancer sufferers. But what has that to do with Armstrong's personal activities and prize money? So now he should be let off the hook because he set up a charitable foundation?
not to overstate the obvious, but under US law much (if not all) of the USADA's evidence against Armstrong would not be admissible in a court of law. this doesn't mean that the USADA hasn't "proven" its case for purposes of taking action under the association's bylaws, etc., but it does mean we should be a little careful about how we use the word "proven".

again, I don't care for road cycling and am hardly an Armstrong fan or apologist, but as an attorney I loathe shitty legal reasoning and drafting. I am also cynical anytime what is effectively nothing more than a trade association issues a 1,000+ page "opinion" about a matter that isn't even subject to a dispute (since Armstrong refused to participate in the arbitral proceedings). hell, the USADA even uses Armstrong's refusal to participate in the arbitral proceedings as further inferential "proof" of his guilt, which is about as contrary to the spirit of the US legal system as anything I can imagine.
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  #170  
Old 22.10.2012, 17:07
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

I think either way you play this its a loose loose situation.
The foundation is already suffering due to the events in the last few days and even though you can blame Lance Armstrong for that, he is not the only one who will suffer from it.

Besides, they can not prove that he was on drugs 13 years ago. They could not prove it then and the tests (urine/blood) have been discarded since then. Even if they can prove he was doping at some stage they cant prove he has been doing it all the time.
Kind of like if the cops pull me over for speeding today, they cant give me a ticket for speeding yesterday. Not exactly the same thing but you catch my drift
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  #171  
Old 22.10.2012, 17:20
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Tough, but fair.
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  #172  
Old 22.10.2012, 20:43
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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I am also cynical anytime what is effectively nothing more than a trade association...
I'd love to know in what sense the USADA is a trade association. It is not-for-profit. It does not represent any particular sport. No sport is obliged to use it. It makes no financial gain from nailing LA. The trade association here is the UCI, who saw none of this coming. They are the ones with most to lose from this catastrophe. Mostly they avoided knowing by burying their heads firmly in the sand, if they did not actively prevent dope testers reaching LA in a timely manner (I think they did that, but I am not a US lawyer, thank God).

Did Lance cheat, lie and bully his way to the top - he certainly did.
Would the case stand up in a US court against a smartass lawyer whose name was plastered on a passing bus ("phone this number and gain millions") - maybe not.

Last edited by FrankZappa; 22.10.2012 at 20:44. Reason: typing
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  #173  
Old 22.10.2012, 20:50
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

About time they handed this decision down! One less cheat in the sport and time they got rid of the record of someone who bullied others to use the same drugs and built a culture of not speaking up. At least now it doesnt matter what people think its official the record books will be corrected so at least noone has their name as a winner in a black period of world cycling!
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  #174  
Old 22.10.2012, 21:18
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Did Lance cheat, lie and bully his way to the top - he certainly did.
.
And he was damn good at it too. No one can take that away from him.
So the real question is who do the titles go to? Almost everyone in the top ten has been busted so do you give it to the guy driving the team car? Surely he didn't dope. Someone should kick Lance right in the nut.
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  #175  
Old 22.10.2012, 21:31
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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And he was damn good at it too. No one can take that away from him.
So the real question is who do the titles go to? Almost everyone in the top ten has been busted so do you give it to the guy driving the team car? Surely he didn't dope. Someone should kick Lance right in the nut.
What a grand idea the team car driver alternatively I vote for the guy who came last!
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  #176  
Old 22.10.2012, 22:23
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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And he was damn good at it too. No one can take that away from him.
So the real question is who do the titles go to? Almost everyone in the top ten has been busted so do you give it to the guy driving the team car? Surely he didn't dope. Someone should kick Lance right in the nut.
According to the organiser of the Tour de France "nobody", but he doesn't have the last word. They already took away Bjarne Riis title for doping, and then had to give it back, because the crime was too ancient. He is still making a good living managing cyclists.
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Old 22.10.2012, 23:13
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Isn't it possible for us to see Lance Armstrong as both........

A cheat and a fraudster of a cyclist who manipulated his way to the top in a calculate and viscous way....

And a courageous, inspiring campaigner how raised a vast amount of money and made a huge difference in many peoples lives......?


While it appears his sporting life is nothing short of a joke (although admittedly not proven in court the evidence does seem insurmountable) his life as a philanthropist wasn't.
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  #178  
Old 22.10.2012, 23:26
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Although LA started Livestrong, they are two separate entities, and like you I think the work Livestrong does is fantastic...lets not also forget other such organisations that do the same thing.

But LA has profited personally from professing to be clean..it's his denial in the face of the freight-train load of evidence that makes it worthy of his loss of titles. Tiger Woods never professed to being moral nor were his achievements based on doping (in fact the opposite, Tiger achieved better results when he was dumping Testosterone!) ...and he did have to balls to own up to it in the end.

I don't deny LA achieved great physical achievements on a "level playing field", but his dishonesty and cowardess are rapidly overshadowing all this.
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Isn't it possible for us to see Lance Armstrong as both........

A cheat and a fraudster of a cyclist who manipulated his way to the top in a calculate and viscous way....

And a courageous, inspiring campaigner how raised a vast amount of money and made a huge difference in many peoples lives......?


While it appears his sporting life is nothing short of a joke (although admittedly not proven in court the evidence does seem insurmountable) his life as a philanthropist wasn't.
Litespeed said it best.

And for me, yes, there is a difference.

If he had the courage to come out and say "Yes, I cheated, but I feel guilty and want to make recompense throughmy charity work" - that's one thing

But he positioned himself as a survivor and a man of impeccable credentials, and that just isn't true. He is a philanthropist on money that was made from lies. If Bernie Madoff gave money to a hedgehog shelter, would that make him ok? Lance's money came from somewhere - shareholders, your pension fund, wherever. Once cannot separate the sportsman from the cheat from the fundraiser. Same brain, same heart, no guts
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  #179  
Old 09.01.2013, 12:52
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

Apparently Lance is about to reveal all in an television interview with Oprah Winfrey. The interview will be aired on Thurs 17th Jan.

One hopes he will finally admit to his wrong doings.
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  #180  
Old 09.01.2013, 13:09
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Re: Lance Armstrong charged with doping by USADA

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Apparently Lance is about to reveal all in an television interview with Oprah Winfrey. The interview will be aired on Thurs 17th Jan.

One hopes he will finally admit to his wrong doings.
Some sources claim that if he admits guilt, that he would then get his titles back. Makes no sense to me.

"I didn't do it" + we think you did it = lose titles
"I did it" + we think you did it = ooookay, you're just a naughty boy. here have those 7 titles back.



And what about perjuring himself? Hasn't he testified under oath somewhere about this?
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