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  #41  
Old 11.11.2015, 19:27
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

1) Italian part

2) Rumantsch part

3) German part

4) French part

This despite the Swiss language I know best by far is French, and the worst Rumantsch.

But for work, the only reasonable alternative to Lugano for me would be Zurich and environs.

That said, I worked for four years in a Swiss-German company speaking mostly French, and then 25 years in a Swiss-Italian company speaking mainly French.

Oddly, I have a friend back from the Zurich days with whom I went from French, to German, and finally Italian (he's from Sicily).

Tom
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  #42  
Old 11.11.2015, 20:22
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

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Italian part.

Followed by the Rumantsch part.

Followed by the French part.

Tom
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1) Italian part

2) Rumantsch part

3) German part

4) French part

This despite the Swiss language I know best by far is French, and the worst Rumantsch.

But for work, the only reasonable alternative to Lugano for me would be Zurich and environs.

That said, I worked for four years in a Swiss-German company speaking mostly French, and then 25 years in a Swiss-Italian company speaking mainly French.

Oddly, I have a friend back from the Zurich days with whom I went from French, to German, and finally Italian (he's from Sicily).

Tom
So what made you change your mind between 2012 and now?

Personally I prefer the French speaking part but I live right on the roestigraben too so I get the best if both worlds really.
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  #43  
Old 11.11.2015, 20:27
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

I prefer the French speaking part too- and I am right on the French border- so I get the best of both worlds too, but French-French amazing though how just a line on the road changes the accent totally, lol- the Franc Comtois accent is so so different) - it drags on, like Neuchâtelois- but on different parts of the words.
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  #44  
Old 11.11.2015, 22:22
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

I still need to venture to the german side, but I find it interesting when I have to ring places "over there" and they have totally different rules than here. It's almost like another country! Soon I'll go venture over and see how it is in person.
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  #45  
Old 11.11.2015, 22:24
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

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I prefer the French speaking part too- and I am right on the French border- so I get the best of both worlds too, but French-French amazing though how just a line on the road changes the accent totally, lol- the Franc Comtois accent is so so different) - it drags on, like Neuchâtelois- but on different parts of the words.
really? see all those bits are lost on me still. I did tell the kids just because the locals speak funny french doesn't mean you should, can't have them learn the south of france accent then ever move to Paris
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  #46  
Old 11.11.2015, 22:30
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

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really? see all those bits are lost on me still. I did tell the kids just because the locals speak funny french doesn't mean you should, can't have them learn the south of france accent then ever move to Paris
Of course if you ask a (French) Swiss they will vehemently deny the Swiss French accent is any different from the "native French" one; whatever that is.

They will also usually describe Schweizer Deutsch as an illness not a language which clearly describes the difficulties of combining cultures even in tiny little countries like we live in here!
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  #47  
Old 11.11.2015, 22:35
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

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really? see all those bits are lost on me still. I did tell the kids just because the locals speak funny french doesn't mean you should, can't have them learn the south of france accent then ever move to Paris
... or a Franc Comtois one! lol. There are so many accents in France actually.
But for Romandie, a trained ear like mine can pick a Neuchâtelois, Vaudois, Fribourgeois, Genevan or Valaisan accent from a mile away (well, 1 kilometer) - very different indeed. A good Vaudois accent is wonderful.

What 'native' French accent? There truly isn't one. Just as RP in the UK is not standard native either
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  #48  
Old 11.11.2015, 22:55
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

I'm currently enjoying the book Exgüsi, about differences in culture between people from Germany, and people from Switzerland (mainly the German-speaking part). Are there any interesting books, blogs or articles about differences across the Rösti/Polentagraben? Would be interesting to hear from Swiss people who grew up in one part of the country and settled to study/work in another for example. Also curious about differences between France and la Romandie - found a book written by a French who lived as an expat in Romandie, ordered it at my library.
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  #49  
Old 11.11.2015, 23:09
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

There are no simple answers really. Depends so much on one's family's history and origins and experiences.

My father was born in the Neuchâtel region, but of Jura origin, in 1912. He was very pro independence for the Jura region- and very angry about the injustice of it being just 'given' to the Bernese in exchange for Vaud- who came and took the best lands, and quickly imposed their Protestant religion on the native Catholics, and also imposed the Bernese German language on a French region.

My mother came from a wealthy family, born in 1915 and went to study English in London and Hastings, and then classical German in Munich. She was no snob- but she hated Swiss German because she loved German (mind you- Bavarian is not that melodious, but I supposed was not taught at the Uni)...

So as a kid I was strongly encouraged to learn languages, but certainly NOT Swiss German, that is for sure- but many of my friends were sent to the German part of Switzerland to learn Switzertütsch of one kind or another.

As for the differences between France cand Romandie? Really it so depends on where in Romandie and where in France. There is a lot more distance between local Franc-Comtois across the border and Parisians, then between them and us across the border in a similar rural setting. Life in Geneva is very different to life in the Auvergne, or the Jura on either side for that matter. We share our life with FRench and Swiss natives/locals- and there is truly not much difference- although the Neuchâtelois and Franc-Comtois accents are both 'heavy' but totally different - it is so funny when we have a bbq or lunch as we always have both present.
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  #50  
Old 12.11.2015, 11:29
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

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So what made you change your mind between 2012 and now?
The possibility of having to find a new job within a reasonable distance.

Tom
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  #51  
Old 12.11.2015, 11:45
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

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Can you explain further? I don't understand what you are meaning to say exactly. You see criminals in action on a regular basis? You can correctly identify where they are from based on their appearance?
If you would live in Lausanne, you would know that the guy is right.
And pay attention: it's not saying that x % of criminals are black or that criminals are mostly black or that there are no white criminal...

No it's just that in the French part there are permanent visible black criminals, out in the open, with limited consequences for them.

It's a known problem but authorities are not doing much about it, and it's having a toll on the other citizen.

http://www.24heures.ch/vaud-regions/...story/13162502

http://www.rts.ch/emissions/temps-pr...-quartier.html


Now, fair enough there could be x amount of white criminals somewhere else, but they are not that visible or they are being more discreet about it.
And clearly the entire city center of Lausanne is under control of black skinned criminals.
Maybe they have "bosses" or "suppliers" who are white, yellow, brown, blue, green, whatever: the skin color is not the problem.


You want evidence?
Walk around in Lausanne in main areas: Start from gare, go up to St-Francois, continue to Flon, chauderon, and go towards Beaulieu.
You will have walked about 40min.
If you have not seen at least 10 black dealers during the day or over 50 on evenings/weekends, then you have visual problems.
If you have not being approached a few times you either look like a cop or suspicious...

And there are similar situation on other cities in Romandie.

To conclude the problem is not about skin color but clearly there are many easily identifiable black-skinned criminals in french speaking part of Switzerland, out in the open. And unfortunately it has a direct impact on "locals" and it can also contribute to bad stereotyping, which is unfair for every human beings.
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  #52  
Old 12.11.2015, 11:54
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

Back in the days when I was looking for a house where I might have a faint glimmer of hope of being allowed to live with my dogs in peace, I saw some interesting farm properties available across the Rostigraben. Very tempting.

But I just couldn't face the prospect of starting all over again in French. I studied French for years - middle school, high school, university. I can read it, understand it, I might still be able to write an more or less correct sentence. But despite all that studying, I cannot speak it. The correct sounds just will not come out. No matter how hard I try I sound like a caricature of an Ugly American tourist.

Living on the German side isn't easy, but the language is more forgiving.

Life on the German side may devilishly difficult, but it's the devil I know.
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  #53  
Old 12.11.2015, 12:27
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

The roads are much nicer in the French parts, and you have easy access to some great French mountain passes too.

My fiancée is also from the French side and I'm learning French so I might be a little biased

Oh, that excludes the hell hole that is Geneva.
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  #54  
Old 12.11.2015, 12:46
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

Having lived in Geneva for over forty years.

I must admit i have visited Zurich three times. It is like another country to me. I can't speak the lingo. I shall stay here and have no desire to go to Zurich in the near future. We do have running water and electricity.

But, if ever, any of you Zurich people want to visit Geneva. We will show you great hospitality.

Funny, for such a small country there is such an animosity between cantons and people and languages. Bit silly.

Like Glasgow and Edinburgh or Dublin and Belfast. But sillier.
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Old 12.11.2015, 13:21
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

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Walk around in Lausanne in main areas: Start from gare, go up to St-Francois, continue to Flon, chauderon, and go towards Beaulieu.
You will have walked about 40min.
If you have not seen at least 10 black dealers during the day or over 50 on evenings/weekends, then you have visual problems.
If you have not being approached a few times you either look like a cop or suspicious...
A few other walks if you are keen on spotting them:
Flon-Rue Centrale- Rue de Langallerie- Rue Enning- Rue de Bourg

Place st Francois- Av Jules Gonin- the alley within Montbenon- Avenue de Tivoli

and, of course, Riponne.

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I must admit i have visited Zurich three times. It is like another country to me. I can't speak the lingo.
The few times I've been to Zurich, I never felt "at home". It seemed so strange and different from Vaud (having said that, Fribourg felt strange and different too ). It's not very uncommon to come across people here who haven't been to Zurich in 20 years!
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Old 12.11.2015, 13:30
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

I have seen a lot of these unwelcome additions to the community. I am curious though, as a mother of 2 small kids, is there areas to just 100% avoid? I haven't figured that out with Lausanne yet like I know with Paris etc
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  #57  
Old 12.11.2015, 13:50
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

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I have seen a lot of these unwelcome additions to the community. I am curious though, as a mother of 2 small kids, is there areas to just 100% avoid? I haven't figured that out with Lausanne yet like I know with Paris etc
I can't label any of these places as "100% avoid", except the seedier parts of Rue de Geneve, some of the areas around Vigie, and the parks after dusk (e.g. Parc de Valency). Everywhere else, it's safest when day, safer if you have company, and safe if you don't loiter around after 2200. Somehow the peddlers think that the sole reason for you to be on the streets after 2200 (2000 in St Francois) is to purchase their products. I am more worried about other shady characters- muggers, pickpockets, and stalkers- their activities increase after dusk too.
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Old 12.11.2015, 16:47
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

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I can't label any of these places as "100% avoid", except the seedier parts of Rue de Geneve, some of the areas around Vigie, and the parks after dusk (e.g. Parc de Valency). Everywhere else, it's safest when day, safer if you have company, and safe if you don't loiter around after 2200. Somehow the peddlers think that the sole reason for you to be on the streets after 2200 (2000 in St Francois) is to purchase their products. I am more worried about other shady characters- muggers, pickpockets, and stalkers- their activities increase after dusk too.
A bit ridiculous & homophobic approach, to be honest. Do you have an actual story of those black guys ever attacking/pickpocketing someone? Those dealers (yes, most of them are) don't cause any trouble, simply because they are not that stupid - they are on the edge of society, and any stupidity will send them to prison/deportation.

I've lived in quite a few places, but never felt as safe as in Switzerland, even after dark, even nearby of those dealers. Doesn't matter if Zurich, Lausanne, or Geneve.

If that's truly your approach and mindset, this world must be one hell of a scary place to you...
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Old 12.11.2015, 16:48
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

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I studied French for years - middle school, high school, university. I can read it, understand it, I might still be able to write an more or less correct sentence. But despite all that studying, I cannot speak it. The correct sounds just will not come out. No matter how hard I try I sound like a caricature of an Ugly American tourist.
I've been accused a couple times of having a 'fake' American accent when speaking French, most recently (10 years ago) by my (then) Parisian girlfriend, who couldn't believe that someone who spoke French as well as I did could have such an accent, and I was doing it on purpose just to annoy her!

Tom
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Old 12.11.2015, 16:58
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Re: where do u prefer to live? French or German part?

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A bit ridiculous & homophobic approach, to be honest. Do you have an actual story of those black guys ever attacking/pickpocketing someone? Those dealers (yes, most of them are) don't cause any trouble, simply because they are not that stupid - they are on the edge of society, and any stupidity will send them to prison/deportation.
Where in my posts is there any hint of homophobia or any reference to anyone's ethnicity?

As for mugging and pickpocketing (as well as stalking)- yes, I have several actual stories, all in Lausanne, all in the regions I mentioned.
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