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Old 26.12.2012, 22:39
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So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

I almost titled this thread as a question so forgive me if I am trying to give people an insight into the 'real life' here...

When you've been here long enough, understood the rules, get on with the neighbours (virtually everybody as Switzerland is so small), & of course the in-laws... ..it is a dream.

I've seen many negative posts recently about Switzerland (and of course the EF Swiss Batallion in action because of them) but really, you people, this is the greatest County you have ever been in (but not just realised it yet). Of course, there are some people who try to defy the rules (a way of life) but really, get a grip....YOU ARE living in Paradise.

I myself, find myself these days...realising how much I can achieve here, it is so tranquil...if I abide by the rules (and I am liked), life is soooo simple.
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Old 26.12.2012, 22:46
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

Love the avatar!
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Old 26.12.2012, 22:55
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

How come I read loads of irony in there?
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Old 26.12.2012, 23:03
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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I almost titled this thread as a question so forgive me if I am trying to give people an insight into the 'real life' here...

When you've been here long enough, understood the rules, get on with the neighbours (virtually everybody as Switzerland is so small), & of course the in-laws... ..it is a dream.

I've seen many negative posts recently about Switzerland (and of course the EF Swiss Batallion in action because of them) but really, you people, this is the greatest County you have ever been in (but not just realised it yet). Of course, there are some people who try to defy the rules (a way of life) but really, get a grip....YOU ARE living in Paradise.

I myself, find myself these days...realising how much I can achieve here, it is so tranquil...if I abide by the rules (and I am liked), life is soooo simple.
Good for you. It takes a while but once you understand what the country is about on a deeper level, you can really appreciate it and live. Switzerland is one of those countries where you can really make your life how you want it if you follow the rules. In retrospect...freedom involves following rules, having discipline, and being responsible, that's all the Swiss ask of those who live here...I wish you much success!
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Old 26.12.2012, 23:18
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

Totally agree, but It takes one a while (2years) to realise this and stop using XE, in other words integrated.

There are alot of things I find strange about this place but still say, leave Switzerland as it is, even the rules about tying strings around papers for recycling, because that what makes Switzerland the way it is.

The Swiss just need to be patient and give foreigners time to adjust, integrate and appreciate this wonderful country that they have built.
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Old 27.12.2012, 18:23
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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Totally agree, but It takes one a while (2years) to realise this and stop using XE, in other words integrated.

There are alot of things I find strange about this place but still say, leave Switzerland as it is, even the rules about tying strings around papers for recycling, because that what makes Switzerland the way it is.

The Swiss just need to be patient and give foreigners time to adjust, integrate and appreciate this wonderful country that they have built.
How patient? Integration is more for the foreigner's benefit than the Swiss. There are those who have been here for 10 years and still can't string a proper sentence together in one of the local languages. My Swiss brethren are too patient to be honest.
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Old 27.12.2012, 18:38
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

A post the other day mentioned one person who has been here ...


50 years


and still can't speak the language


CotW99 - totally agree - and the effort and patience should go both ways, ideally
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Old 27.12.2012, 18:43
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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I almost titled this thread as a question so forgive me if I am trying to give people an insight into the 'real life' here...

When you've been here long enough, understood the rules, get on with the neighbours (virtually everybody as Switzerland is so small), & of course the in-laws... ..it is a dream.

I've seen many negative posts recently about Switzerland (and of course the EF Swiss Batallion in action because of them) but really, you people, this is the greatest County you have ever been in (but not just realised it yet). Of course, there are some people who try to defy the rules (a way of life) but really, get a grip....YOU ARE living in Paradise.

I myself, find myself these days...realising how much I can achieve here, it is so tranquil...if I abide by the rules (and I am liked), life is soooo simple.
Have you just, in the same manner as the apostle Paul on the road to Damascus, seen a blinding light in the heavens and heard a voice like thunder saying something like "you are living in a paradise" ? Maybe it went on to say that you should do something about all those red reputation markers you have collected.
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Old 27.12.2012, 19:15
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

Sure takes time to build back some positive rep around here doesn't it .....?
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Old 27.12.2012, 19:32
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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I have to work in the area for now & like you, I can cantonise the worst kind of...shall I say it..swiss people. They are such a rude breed.
I guess this doesn't apply anymore.
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Old 27.12.2012, 21:55
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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How patient? Integration is more for the foreigner's benefit than the Swiss. There are those who have been here for 10 years and still can't string a proper sentence together in one of the local languages. My Swiss brethren are too patient to be honest.
there are more people in the metro Detroit area than there are people who speak the "local language" in Zurich, and the English language is considerably more portable than Swiss German. so while I certainly agree that learning the local language can be tremendously rewarding and can enrich the experience of those living in Switzerland, it's a little silly to begrudge those that don't have the time or inclination. keep in mind, as well, that not everybody who is inside the borders is running from their home country or intending to be here for the long term.
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Old 27.12.2012, 22:42
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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there are more people in the metro Detroit area than there are people who speak the "local language" in Zurich, and the English language is considerably more portable than Swiss German.

...

... keep in mind, as well, that not everybody who is inside the borders is running from their home country or intending to be here for the long term.
... which is why the gemeine Angelsachse - or who is perceived as one - turns out to be among the less integrated.


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...
When you've been here long enough, understood the rules, get on with the neighbours (virtually everybody as Switzerland is so small), & of course the in-laws... ..it is a dream.

I've seen many negative posts recently about Switzerland (and of course the EF Swiss Batallion in action because of them) but really, you people, this is the greatest County you have ever been in (but not just realised it yet). Of course, there are some people who try to defy the rules (a way of life) but really, get a grip....YOU ARE living in Paradise.

I myself, find myself these days...realising how much I can achieve here, it is so tranquil...if I abide by the rules (and I am liked), life is soooo simple.
Well, this is a hell of restrictions of what I would define a paradise (Rules and discipline in Paradise with neighbors and in-laws? Would rather call that a working camp or worse). One of those - the rule thing - was worth to be mentioned 3 times in 1 post of yours.

Boy, do you all have an opinion about Switzerland ...
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Old 27.12.2012, 22:52
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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I almost titled this thread as a question so forgive me if I am trying to give people an insight into the 'real life' here...

When you've been here long enough, understood the rules, get on with the neighbours (virtually everybody as Switzerland is so small), & of course the in-laws... ..it is a dream.

I've seen many negative posts recently about Switzerland (and of course the EF Swiss Batallion in action because of them) but really, you people, this is the greatest County you have ever been in (but not just realised it yet). Of course, there are some people who try to defy the rules (a way of life) but really, get a grip....YOU ARE living in Paradise.

I myself, find myself these days...realising how much I can achieve here, it is so tranquil...if I abide by the rules (and I am liked), life is soooo simple.
Usually if you do not follow the rules then you just pay some money & are away free - not many countries where you can do this?
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Old 27.12.2012, 23:12
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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Have you just, in the same manner as the apostle Paul on the road to Damascus, seen a blinding light in the heavens and heard a voice like thunder saying something like "you are living in a paradise" ? Maybe it went on to say that you should do something about all those red reputation markers you have collected.
I just have strong opinions, some agree with my attitude to some of them, some don't....the last thread I created many didn't ...so what?

I didn't just see a blinding light, I had some time free recently after being extremely busy for ages & (prompted by a dream of someone I met when I first came here) looked back over my time here, what I am doing now & where I think it will take me based on looking back (by looking back I mean literally just laying on the floor or on the bed thinking for about 5 hours at a time).

Sometimes you just have to realise when you get over the difficulties/obstacles you make for yourself, how much you can achieve here in such a short space of time.

I spent years living in London dreaming about what I have done here in 5 years.
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Old 27.12.2012, 23:36
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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there are more people in the metro Detroit area than there are people who speak the "local language" in Zurich, and the English language is considerably more portable than Swiss German. so while I certainly agree that learning the local language can be tremendously rewarding and can enrich the experience of those living in Switzerland, it's a little silly to begrudge those that don't have the time or inclination. keep in mind, as well, that not everybody who is inside the borders is running from their home country or intending to be here for the long term.
Regardless, learning a bit of the language will enrich one's life tremendously. Having some understanding of what's going on around you can make a big difference. And where does Detroit fit into this?...LOL
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Old 27.12.2012, 23:44
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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Sometimes you just have to realise when you get over the difficulties/obstacles you make for yourself, how much you can achieve here in such a short space of time.

I spent years living in London dreaming about what I have done here in 5 years.
Yes, it is much easier to go with the flow, than to re-invent the wheel or similar. Everything works quite well here, but you need to keep to the rules.

I know a 37 year old lady, she was born here and was always a Swiss citizen, but she is like her Swiss father, and is always pushing Swiss society to the limits, and consequently is always being punished.

She is currently banned from driving for 12 months, because she pays no attention to speed limit signs. She has owned a dog for about 7 years, and has only just paid the cantonal dog tax for the first time... I am waiting for the Gemeinde to send her on the compulsory dog training course, because she has no record of earlier dog ownership.

It isn't always ex-pats that do stupid things!
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Old 27.12.2012, 23:44
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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A post the other day mentioned one person who has been here ...


50 years


and still can't speak the language
doesn't that happen everywhere?
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Old 27.12.2012, 23:48
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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A post the other day mentioned one person who has been here ...50 years and still can't speak the language
That doesn't worry me at all. IN NZ, there have definitely been Chinese women who have not learnt English, but grown old and wise without it. I suspect the same could be true within the Greek community as well. Both those comunities have strong family and extended community times, with their own well established cultural clubs and quite frankly those now elderly women have not had a great need for the wider community.

But Switzerland is different. Firstly, there is no one common national language, which in itself means that there will be even Swiss people who cannot communicate with all their fellow Swiss folk. Is that a problem? Also, the percentage of nonSwiss is quite high. To "integrate," which language should we learn? I can learn Gerrman in Basel, but doubt that it will make any difference to my level of integration. What if I decide to move to the French speaking cantons? Heck! Same country, but no longer integrated... start again with French (or Italian...)

THe OP mentions there being a whole different level of what happens in Switzerland. Yes, I am sure it does if one speaks one of the national languages. However, even within that, there are "whole different levels."

Not to mention all the levels within the other partts of society, without even taking languages into account. eg: mothers at home have a whole different life to those who work. People without children have a whole different life to those with children. Younger adults have a different life to older people. Those into sport are having totally different experiences to those who are into music, or gardening, or nightclubbing. - apparently it is possible to go clubbing 7 nights a week in Basel. Well, who would have thought that? Never seen it in the life I inhabit. On the other hand, I have been to a Isreali folk dancing lesson here.

And those English speaking retired expats I see twice a year when I go to Pickwicks? Where are they and what are they doing the rest of the year?

Then there are the three bilingual women I know ( two are Swiss) One of the Swiss spends most of her time amongst Swiss, the other feels more comfortable with expats, whilst the the nonSwiss, despite being a fluent speaker, also spends most of her time with expats, because they happen to be doing the things she enjoys, regardless of nationality.

Lots of other examples.....

My point being that perhaps too much is made of integration. I like the idea of a bunch of different nationalities and different languages, living alongside each other, all happy with their work, families and interests, respecting one another, sharing and coming together when they like, but without pressure to all become the same.

And in fact, this seems to be what happens in Switzerland, within ( at least parts) of the expat community, where I often find that at dinners , work or sport events, I am surrounded by people of many nationalities, all enjoying themselves respecting both similarities and differences.

Lets not melt into one.
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Old 27.12.2012, 23:54
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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My point being that perhaps too much is made of integration. I like the idea of a bunch of different nationalities and different languages, living alongside each other, all happy with their work, families and interests, respecting one another, sharing and coming together when they like, but without pressure to all become the same.
You are talking about what I mentioned in another thread. What you are wrote IS integration. There is a difference between integration and assimilation.
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Old 27.12.2012, 23:56
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Re: So much happens in Switzerland on another level...

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My point being that perhaps too much is made of integration. I like the idea of a bunch of different nationalities and different languages, living alongside each other, all happy with their work, families and interests, respecting one another, sharing and coming together when they like, but without pressure to all become the same.

And in fact, this seems to be what happens in Switzerland, within ( at least parts) of the expat community, where I often find that at dinners , work or sport events, I am surrounded by people of many nationalities, all enjoying themselves respecting both similarities and differences.
Lets not melt into one.
Learning the language enriches your experience in the country you are in. Instead of making excuses not to learn, we should be flexible enough to try, at least.
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