Hi everybody,

I am currently interested in Zone diet, and I would like to know if there are some groups or classes in ZH or Zug area. I have started this type of diet but I got stuck because I am lactose intollerant (any dairy products) so basically I should keep eating fish, meet and egg.
I'd like to know if somebody is following this diet, or there are some nutritionis focused on this.
I did for two months and i felt very well but I give up due to my lake of creativity in cooking and be unpractical in eating outside.
Any suggestion are welcome.

thanks

Eleonora

Can't help with local resources. But especially for paleo there are mounds of online resources. marksdailyapple.com and robbwolf.com. Also try the nutrition forum of crossfit.com at http://www.board.crossfit.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8 as crossfitters are big into their paleo and zone. Don't follow these myself, but have read a lot recently.

Hi Danny

interesting the links you sent me! Thanks! But indeed I need a nutritian/doctor for a customized diet.

El

http://swisspaleo.ch/

http://www.facebook.com/SwissPaleo

As for the diet, I'd argue that you can loosely follow Zone/Paleo principles and still benefit. The biggest two things are cutting carbs and keeping the gluten to a minimum. If you can manage these two things then you're likely to succeed.

And suddenly I thought there would be a Paleo Fondue recipe after all :-(

Strict paleo means no dairy. As for me, I'm OK with fondue provided no industrial veggie oils are used and no bread is involved.

I am trying but being very much intollerant to dairy product (even lactose frei) (they are allowed in the zone diet) I have to deal with only fish, meat, eggs... I think legumes are not considered as protein resources right? only soy.

Any suggestion where to find "alternative" flours? like buckwheat flour, quinoa flour and so.... I saw something at coop but they are quite expensive.
Almond flour I can find basically everywhere....like coconut flour...

Thanks

Calling Vegan Chef. Where for art thou brother .....?

Typo

I followed (and held trainings in) the Zone diet many many....many years ago. It is very easy to adopt to the Zone as it primarily requires that you know what you are eating in regards to nutritional value and adjust to match the 40-30-30 regime (Carb-Protein-Fat). You will quickly learn that most vegestables are a much better choice than pasta, rice etc. as a carb source so the Zone diet is not that difficult.

However as you need to know what you are eating of C-P-F respectively you need to keep track and the best way to do this is by using MyFitnessPal (MFP). It is the best tool available and it is free and there are Iphone and Adroid apps as well.

I use MFP on most days and it takes absolutely no time to keep track.


Sorry Bro but I would guess that your old pal Vegan Chef knows nothing about the Zone and Paleo.

Hi, I have started low carb high fat diet some two weeks ago, it is working good. Check out http://www.dietdoctor.com/, he is very good in answering your questions.

Just eat in moderation, get plenty of exercise, lose weight, and keep your money and sanity.

The paleo diet in particular is remarkably enviromentally and scientifically unsound imho...

Alternative flours and things like that we generally order from amazon.de or uk and have it shipped to a german post box...

Oh....you forgot to mention that one will go blind if one masturbate too much.

Seriously....if the whole eating/exercise issue was that easy obesity would not be killer no. 1.

"Alternative flours....." Jeez.

I'm not sure what you're saying here with the masturbation analogy....losing weight isn't easy, but knowing what needs to be done is. Burn more calories than you take in, that's it.

And what's wrong with alternative flours?

Wikipedia says:
Doesn't seem like a great idea. The UK National Health Service classifies it as a fad diet.

Specifically, what is wrong with processed oil? I understand the argument for flour, but what nutrients are present in unprocessed oil in nutrionally significant amounts that processing removes?

My point is that "eat in moderation and get plenty of exercise" in not a very precise advise. A lot of fat people who tries to lose weight do not eat too much and even sometimes too little. You need to eat in order to loose weight and if you eat the right stuff you don't have to moderate yourself.

A lot of fat people focus primarily on eating light and keep an eye on the fat but that is unfortunately not enough.

The masturbation thing.....well. Just an advise in line with yours about being moderate.....no offense meant.

It's not specifically a nutrient problem, and these oils wouldn't be very healthy even if they were unprocessed.

Not so. There may be a very few people for whom that description is true, but in the vast majority of overweight individuals it is pretty much solely down to eating more than the body needs.

I'm also somewhat sceptical of the 'eat less and exercise more' advice, not because it's wrong per se, but because some people seem to allow themselves to think that an increase in exercise will burn so many more calories that they can then go out and eat a congratulatory burger or two, which of course (usually) more than overcompensates for the additional burn.

The amount of exercise required on its own (i.e. without reduced intake) to lose weight significantly is more than would be physically possible for most people, especially overweight ones, whereas just eating less will work for anyone. (Not that I'm trying to say that makes it easy - far from it.)

So, I'd modify the advice - if you want to lose weight you must eat less. If you want to get healthy at the same time then exercise more too.

I agree on most of your points but my view is that eating less in not the solution alone. You need to eat less (i.e. lower your caloric input) but you also need to eat the right stuff at the same time. 500 gram of cauliflower is a much better choice than 50 gram of cake as the caloric input is less......just an example though so don't hold me up on the numbers. You know what I mean.

I think everyone has different requirements - I have tried every "broadly backed by nutritionists without too much controversy" as well as every "this sounds crazy but I hate being fat, I want to lose 20lbs in two hours" diet there is. Most recently I subscribed to the reasonable amount of whole wheat type carbs, plenty of veggies, healthy protein sources including legumes, keep it low fat, exercise plenty ethos - and I just kept getting more miserable, had frequent headaches, my lupus symptoms were crippling my life despite taking prednisone for months on end, I was taking prescription strength painkillers just to be able to get out of bed, my skin was rubbish, my scalp itched, no energy, pain everywhere all the time, constantly cranky, bad sleep. But I was eating exactly like the doctor said would be good for me until I decided to listen to somebody else.

Eating on this ever so controversial paleo diet I have lost weight, only rarely have headaches, am much less cranky and here's the best bit - I am no longer in pain, I've stopped taking the prednisone and the painkillers, my skin went totally bonkers at first but now I get people telling me that I look well and asking if I've lost a ton of weight when it is simply that my face doesn't look quite so moon-like any more. The rest is slowly following. But mostly - I had this moment were I felt like my body had disappeared because it stopped hurting, after five years of constant pain, the pain was gone. It was quite surreal. I used to exist in a miserable existence of counting calories, always being hungry, constantly thinking about what I would like to eat - now I just eat when I'm hungry. I used to spend hours at the gym artificially stimulating specific muscles or going on the cross trainer - now I go jogging outside in the sort of weather we've been having lately, I make sure I take the stairs, I do bodyweight exercises and I try and do yoga occasionally. I still struggle with my sleep, only had two hours this night as I had a presentation this morning, but that is another thing I think is very sensible about paleo, the notion of getting enough sleep, trying to forgo the alarm. Even with the two hours sleep and the remainder of a dreadful cold, I won't be going through a day of Red Bull and energy pills as I somehow seem more resilient to tiredness. Sure, don't try this at home, but just saying.

Of course, if you subscribe to the idea of getting a free pass on bacon, it won't be good; but if you look at the "Paleo Food Pyramid", it's not meat forming the basis, it's vegetables. I eat loads more vegetables than I used to, simply because you can't afford to get full on animal protein in Switzerland, at least I can't. I don't seem to react to diary, so I occasionally have that. My big no-nos are sugar and grains. I tested it out at Easter, ate like I used to for three days, bad idea. I instantly got sick (like I used to, I just had to look at someone with a cold to catch it, whereas in the weeks before my whole office was like a plague-house and I went scot free), had no energy, my joints ached. It wasn't like an instant effect, but on day four after my three day silliness I woke up feeling utterly miserable, as if I'd been drinking heavily. So that explains why I never really made the food - health connection, people with allergies have instant feedback, with me it's more a slow poisoning effect.

This is my situation, with my body but the changes are so dramatic that a kind person has actually offered to help me with my food bill because they are so impressed with what it has done. Because it is expensive and time-consuming to make everything from scratch (although egg and banana pancakes with berries are very cheap and very delicious) but I eat a lot less than I used to (after initially eating everything I could possibly get my hands on, the first week was like withdrawal! but I still lost weight, go figure, I ate two bags of nuts on day three ) and I don't spend money on that quick pick me up Gipfeli or absolutely essential Red Bull at the kiosk any more. I only work part time so the food is a very big part of my budget, for someone with a normal salary who might switch regular boozy pub visits for a slightly different lifestyle it may even help you save money.

My kingdom for a big freezer though, I have a small one that is already pretty full with cat food, so cooking in advance doesn't really happen much.

I think you should try and see what works for YOUR body, choose something you can stick to, give it thirty days, if you feel better, good, you're on the right track, if you don't try something else. I've always done better on high protein and avoiding refined sugar - which is hard, as I have the sweetest tooth. Or maybe had, I'm finding things I used to like too sweet now and tend to crave salty things more. I've established that I can probably be "non-paleo" for the occasional meal, but not on consecutive meals and not to excess. When you find a diet (in the sense of balanced and healthy diet, not "I want to be a size zero") that works for you and makes you feel good, you suddenly realise that all that the other stuff achieves is make you feel tired and kind of fuzzy headed. I want to lie down after a bowl of pasta - that's not what food should do. Others are fine with pasta but eggs make them queasy. Be your own dietitian, you are the one in your body, not the FDA or Rosemary Conley or your GP.