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  #61  
Old 06.03.2013, 19:48
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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A guy called Harry Fuchs outlined his plans in today's Neue Zuger Zeitung to make life more difficult for ex-pats in Zug. Apart from having to learn German (he is a German teacher - www.softlanding.ch), he is encouraging shop workers to no longer speak English with ex-pats.

I don't see people who are on short work assignments here being able to learn swiss german in just one or two years and any shops who do sign up to this programme could end up losing business. It is a bit worrying that Stadt Zug apparently supports this idea.

http://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/nachri...h;art93,242885

Harry Fuchs will Ausländern Deutsch beibringen – mit einem Lehrmittel, das gleichzeitig Lebenshilfe ist.

Eine weiche Landung in Zug: Das möchte Harry Fuchs mit seiner Schule «Soft Landing» den so genannten Expats ermöglichen. Seit 2007 bietet seine Schule in Baar Deutschkurse für Angestellte von internationalen Firmen an. Nun unterrichtet er mit einem neuen, selbst verfassten Lehrmittel.
«Grüezi mitenand!» heisst das Buch, das schon auf der Titelseite ganz zugerisch daher kommt. «Für Expats gibt es praktisch nur Lehrmittel für den deutschen Markt», erklärt der 52-Jährige, der 1964 mit seinen Eltern in die Schweiz gezogen ist. Und diese Bücher operierten mit Geschichten und Alltagssituationen in Berlin oder München. «Das ist nicht gerade motivierend.»
Deshalb hat er in seiner bald 25-jährigen Unterrichtstätigkeit immer wieder Schweizer Sitten und Gewohnheiten in den Unterricht eingebaut, er hat Lernspiele entwickelt und verlegt den Unterricht immer wieder nach draussen. Seit zwei Jahren hat er sich mit dem Gedanken getragen, ein spezielles Deutschlehrbuch für Zuger Expats zu entwickeln. Dank der Unterstützung der Stadt Zug und verschiedener Firmen konnte er diesen Traum nun verwirklichen.
Mit einer App in den Hofladen

Damit der Kontakt mit Zug und den Zugern nicht aufs Buch beschränkt bleibt, hat Harry Fuchs auch eine App entwickelt. Auf Knopfdruck finden Expats hier beispielsweise spezielle Zuger Geschäfte, Hofmärkte und vieles mehr. Die Partner beteiligen sich finanziell an der Entwicklung der App, profitieren dafür von neuen Kunden.
Denn dank der App sollen Expats nicht nur bei den Grossverteilern einkaufen – dort, wo es für sie am einfachsten ist –, sondern eben auch im Hofladen. Damit der Lerneffekt auch wirklich spielt, müssen die Partner eine Bedingung erfüllen: Sie dürfen nur deutsch reden, wenn ein Expat im Laden steht.
Basically, he declares that he wants to HELP those foreigners
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Old 06.03.2013, 21:22
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

Softlanding, his language course business charges an arm and a leg for a lesson.

Is he suffering a business downturn and need more customers?
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Old 06.03.2013, 21:35
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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Softlanding, his language course business charges an arm and a leg for a lesson.

Is he suffering a business downturn and need more customers?
Quite the other way round. He has just started this business and urgently needs more customers. He most likely is fully aware of the point that he is still expensive, but he has to pay the locality and so needs a broader customerbase to gradually reduce his price level
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Old 06.03.2013, 21:46
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

I'm learning Swiss German and it's not that hard....you need to put effort into learning ANY Language, even your own mother tongue that you hear all day every day from birth when your brain is at its best. Trying to learn a second, or third language, when you are beyond a certain age is never going to be that easy. But it is possible.

Please don't knock people or their efforts to help expats and locals rub along better when you don't know the full story.
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  #65  
Old 07.03.2013, 07:37
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

OK, I know I'm a bit OCD sometimes. One of the things that has been levelled at Soft Landings is the price of their courses. I've just had a look at various language schools as advertised on Zug4You. I don't speak very much German so for some it was not possible to determine what their prices are - really helpful for an expat wanting to learn German.....not!

of the four that I was able to work out, the rates for 60 minutes are as follows:

Soft Landing
Private: 112 CHF
group of 2: 136 CHF
group of 3 156 CHF
group of 4-6 160 - 240 CHF

The Learning Professionals
Private: not specified as far as i could see
group of 2: 108 - 120 CHF depending on level
group of 3 or more: 192 - 216 CHF depending on level

The Learning Place
private: 120 CHF
group of 4 or more: 240 CHF (10 lessons)

LiZ
private: 123 CHF
groups: difficult to know because i couldn't find out how long a lesson was.

So......make up your own mind about cost.

Just so you know, a leading school in the Geneva area costs 100 CHF per 60 mins for a private lesson for one or two people. NONE of these guys are as cheap as that!

And finally, can anyone tell me whether there are slander and libel laws in Switzerland similar to those of the UK, in as much as you can be sued for misrepresenting the facts?
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Old 07.03.2013, 07:42
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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Please don't knock people or their efforts to help expats and locals rub along better when you don't know the full story.
We actually value full stories here very much. Or put differently: Do you study at this school? Have any ties to it?
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Old 07.03.2013, 07:54
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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And finally, can anyone tell me whether there are slander and libel laws in Switzerland similar to those of the UK, in as much as you can be sued for misrepresenting the facts?
for the record, I never said that his programs were too expensive, I said that his learning materials for native English speakers suck. his materials are ok for basic phrases and the bare basics of grammar (which you can already find in several places online for free), but they are useless for a real understanding of the language and are incredibly difficult to decipher.
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Old 07.03.2013, 07:57
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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for the record, I never said that his programs were too expensive, I said that his learning materials for native English speakers suck. his materials are ok for basic phrases and the bare basics of grammar (which you can already find in several places online for free), but they are useless for a real understanding of the language and are incredibly difficult to decipher.
Crazygringo, I know you never said his prices were too expensive, but others have. I was just curious to check out the variation. Like I say, I can be OCD sometimes.

Off to mangle some language and hope I get a smile or two from it.
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  #69  
Old 07.03.2013, 08:06
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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And finally, can anyone tell me whether there are slander and libel laws in Switzerland similar to those of the UK, in as much as you can be sued for misrepresenting the facts?



''I am a 9 foot tall flying horse''


I am sitting here waiting for you to sue me for 'misrepresenting the facts'.

cheers
SC
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Old 07.03.2013, 08:19
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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Basically, he declares that he wants to HELP those foreigners
for a fee
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Old 07.03.2013, 08:22
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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I'm learning Swiss German and it's not that hard....
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I don't speak very much German
Swiss German is not hard but despite your studies you can't speak it. Right.....
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Old 07.03.2013, 08:44
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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OK, I know I'm a bit OCD sometimes. One of the things that has been levelled at Soft Landings is the price of their courses. I've just had a look at various language schools as advertised on Zug4You. I don't speak very much German so for some it was not possible to determine what their prices are - really helpful for an expat wanting to learn German.....not!
Don't just look at those that advertise to Expat English speakers. We used http://www.till-sprachen.ch/de/privatkurse_deutsch.html and did semi-private lessons. We could cancel a lesson at 24 hours notice too. They are in central Zug too.
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Old 07.03.2013, 09:43
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

Nothing but self promotion, what Mr Schweiz is complaining about is for personal gain (i.e. new book and courses he offers)

I'm surprised by the local SVP's response which was the opposite. Lets get this straight Zug wants the international global business is willing to collect the tax revenues and then complains no one speaks SG?! Not so long ago Zug was a poor canton it seems this guy has a poor memory.

Problem 1 You set yourself up as a global centre of commerce, the global business language is English, not Swiss German. It will never be and whilst that is sad that's a fact. It might be mandarin in future, but that's another discussion.

Problem 2 The individuals who come into Zug/Switzerland are usually highly qualified individuals in their fields who work a lot of hours and contribute greatly to the local taxes and their companies. In general they play by the rules and keep themselves to themselves. They usually have families at this age of experience and will move every 5 years or less around the globe. There is no reason to eat up 2 years learning SG if you are out back to the US/UK/AU etc and you have no intention of staying. All you need is enough to be polite and get by in your daily life.

Problem 3 If you're working a 60hr week and have a family you have little time left to learn the local lingo which I assume from a zero start will take 3hrs every other day to master is over 2 years. Family is priority not sitting in front of a self promoting numpty in a classroom after a 10hr day.

To answer this idiot yes asylum seekers learn German fast as they have all day to practice. I'm busy earning money for my company to pay for your nice road surfaces.

Problem 4 "Integration" the guys is also complaining about integration, well this is a two way street. In other countries foreigners are actively welcome and the locals make an effort to bring them into their communities. Regardless of language barrier they are met 1/2 way. This does not apply in CH you have to do all the leg work, and to be honest I cannot be bothered to try to appease the locals as the result is not worth the input.

Whilst I have great relationships with the Swiss and my neighbours in general I'm not about to pick up a french horn and join in with activites all year around.

I love the Swiss (I should I have Swiss family) and I love Zug, but this guy is a complete moron, lets hope CH locals and life treats me with the same respect that my grandfather was given when he moved to the UK with zero English in the 1920's when there wasn't the internet, self promoting morons and people just got with things.

I seem to remember there was a mass exodus from CH at that time perhaps he's forgotten that too? Or has all the money the locals have in Zug from Globalisation gone to his head?!!
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Old 07.03.2013, 10:11
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

I did a Swiss German course with them, the teacher we had was rubbish. Like all schools that is what it really comes down to.

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Don't just look at those that advertise to Expat English speakers. We used http://www.till-sprachen.ch/de/privatkurse_deutsch.html and did semi-private lessons. We could cancel a lesson at 24 hours notice too. They are in central Zug too.
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Old 07.03.2013, 10:19
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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Nothing but self promotion, what Mr Schweiz is complaining about is for personal gain (i.e. new book and courses he offers)

I'm surprised by the local SVP's response which was the opposite. Lets get this straight Zug wants the international global business is willing to collect the tax revenues and then complains no one speaks SG?! Not so long ago Zug was a poor canton it seems this guy has a poor memory.

Problem 1 You set yourself up as a global centre of commerce, the global business language is English, not Swiss German. It will never be and whilst that is sad that's a fact. It might be mandarin in future, but that's another discussion.

Problem 2 The individuals who come into Zug/Switzerland are usually highly qualified individuals in their fields who work a lot of hours and contribute greatly to the local taxes and their companies. In general they play by the rules and keep themselves to themselves. They usually have families at this age of experience and will move every 5 years or less around the globe. There is no reason to eat up 2 years learning SG if you are out back to the US/UK/AU etc and you have no intention of staying. All you need is enough to be polite and get by in your daily life.

Problem 3 If you're working a 60hr week and have a family you have little time left to learn the local lingo which I assume from a zero start will take 3hrs every other day to master is over 2 years. Family is priority not sitting in front of a self promoting numpty in a classroom after a 10hr day.

To answer this idiot yes asylum seekers learn German fast as they have all day to practice. I'm busy earning money for my company to pay for your nice road surfaces.

Problem 4 "Integration" the guys is also complaining about integration, well this is a two way street. In other countries foreigners are actively welcome and the locals make an effort to bring them into their communities. Regardless of language barrier they are met 1/2 way. This does not apply in CH you have to do all the leg work, and to be honest I cannot be bothered to try to appease the locals as the result is not worth the input.

Whilst I have great relationships with the Swiss and my neighbours in general I'm not about to pick up a french horn and join in with activites all year around.

I love the Swiss (I should I have Swiss family) and I love Zug, but this guy is a complete moron, lets hope CH locals and life treats me with the same respect that my grandfather was given when he moved to the UK with zero English in the 1920's when there wasn't the internet, self promoting morons and people just got with things.

I seem to remember there was a mass exodus from CH at that time perhaps he's forgotten that too? Or has all the money the locals have in Zug from Globalisation gone to his head?!!
Great post, you have really said all there is to say on this issue.
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  #76  
Old 07.03.2013, 10:44
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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Nothing but self promotion, what Mr Schweiz is complaining about is for personal gain (i.e. new book and courses he offers)

I'm surprised by the local SVP's response which was the opposite. Lets get this straight Zug wants the international global business is willing to collect the tax revenues and then complains no one speaks SG?! Not so long ago Zug was a poor canton it seems this guy has a poor memory.

Problem 1 You set yourself up as a global centre of commerce, the global business language is English, not Swiss German. It will never be and whilst that is sad that's a fact. It might be mandarin in future, but that's another discussion.

Problem 2 The individuals who come into Zug/Switzerland are usually highly qualified individuals in their fields who work a lot of hours and contribute greatly to the local taxes and their companies. In general they play by the rules and keep themselves to themselves. They usually have families at this age of experience and will move every 5 years or less around the globe. There is no reason to eat up 2 years learning SG if you are out back to the US/UK/AU etc and you have no intention of staying. All you need is enough to be polite and get by in your daily life.

Problem 3 If you're working a 60hr week and have a family you have little time left to learn the local lingo which I assume from a zero start will take 3hrs every other day to master is over 2 years. Family is priority not sitting in front of a self promoting numpty in a classroom after a 10hr day.

To answer this idiot yes asylum seekers learn German fast as they have all day to practice. I'm busy earning money for my company to pay for your nice road surfaces.

Problem 4 "Integration" the guys is also complaining about integration, well this is a two way street. In other countries foreigners are actively welcome and the locals make an effort to bring them into their communities. Regardless of language barrier they are met 1/2 way. This does not apply in CH you have to do all the leg work, and to be honest I cannot be bothered to try to appease the locals as the result is not worth the input.

Whilst I have great relationships with the Swiss and my neighbours in general I'm not about to pick up a french horn and join in with activites all year around.

I love the Swiss (I should I have Swiss family) and I love Zug, but this guy is a complete moron, lets hope CH locals and life treats me with the same respect that my grandfather was given when he moved to the UK with zero English in the 1920's when there wasn't the internet, self promoting morons and people just got with things.

I seem to remember there was a mass exodus from CH at that time perhaps he's forgotten that too? Or has all the money the locals have in Zug from Globalisation gone to his head?!!
this is the "Adult Disneyland" approach to life as an expat in Switzerland, which is perfectly fine and more than understandable. the downside is that you will take far less of the country and experience with you when you leave, and nearly all of us will eventually leave for other places.
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Old 07.03.2013, 10:58
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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this is the "Adult Disneyland" approach to life as an expat in Switzerland, which is perfectly fine and more than understandable. the downside is that you will take far less of the country and experience with you when you leave, and nearly all of us will eventually leave for other places.
I comment on the situation in general not personally.

You know little about me to make this comment, my family can trace roots 700 years in this country.

I do not need the locals to tell me about this countries history, traditions or customs. I was given those at birth. My family were part of defining those customs they hold so dearly today.

In general, yes it's a shame but that's the nature of the beast, people move they have their own lives and goals unrelated to the integration with the locals. That's globalization for you and why the streets in Zug are clean, crime is low and you hear nothing of economic meltdown in the canton.

Switzerland from the very beginning was a melting pot of languages, people and customs. They accepted that from 1291 as Switzerland grew into it's 26 cantons, today is no different with globalization it's just the immigration involves no direct borders. Good or bad is a matter of opinion.
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  #78  
Old 07.03.2013, 11:09
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

So we have it too easy here? Oh really? Thanks God there is a place in Switzerland where foreigners have it relatively easy.

I think his opinion creates exactly the opposite reaction to what he had originally expected. For sure Mr. Harry Fuchs will not get any business from me.
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Old 07.03.2013, 12:14
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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Thanks God there is a place in Switzerland where foreigners have it relatively easy.
well said, things can never be too easy as far as I'm concerned
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Old 07.03.2013, 16:55
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Re: Expats in Zug have it too easy!

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Ahaha I can assure you that would NEVER EVER happen around here (thank goodness) - perhaps just too many expats in Zug who don't make sufficient effort
Knock it off Odile, it happens in Neuchatel McDonalds most days. You can in the queue and hear English said every other minute from the staff as they repeat in English if the custoer has not immediately responded in French.

But by and large the French Swiss arent so keen to speak in English as the German Swiss unfortunately. The little ers make you work for it.
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