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Old 26.04.2013, 09:01
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Indians and dogs

Firstly, when I say Indians, I am referring of people who appear to originate from the Sub-Continent, but may be from neighbouring countries.

Some mornings, when my youngest goes to KG, I use it as an excuse to walk the dog. Obviously there are many children walking the same route, as there are other dog owners. Just a normal problem-free everyday scenario.

Now, my dog is not big or fierce looking - a Cocker (and a small one, to boot), and loves people, especially children, as he's grown up with them. But, at nearly 12, he's past the stage of bothering about any one or other dogs that he passes - only interested in those he knows, those who make a fuss of him, or those that visit.

Starting some time back, I sometimes passed an 'Indian' mother accompanying her boy (1st or2nd class age) ...... I was already on my way back, they are always late, so normally no one else around.

Every time we got close to passing (pavement on one side of the road only), the boy would start getting nervous, and either almost get in the bushes as we went by, or in the road (the mother too, but I don't know if this was for the same fear, or just to stay by the boy).
This has happened many times, and I'm sorry, but I won't take evasive action and walk in the road, myself, as we are doing nothing out of the ordinary.

This morning there was another mother with her boy (again of similar ethnic origins as the other), but the boy was a bit younger, pre-KG or 1st KG on free morning, as they were going in the same direction as me, away from the school.

The boy had a bike with stabilisers, but was pushing it through an alley, at the end of the alley, he looked like he was going to get on, just as we were overtaking (with plenty of space). When he saw us, he screamed out jumped away from the bike and right back into a fence, as far back as he could go.

I always keep my dog on the opposite side, when I pass people, and he is always at my side, on a slack lead - not pulling or showing interest.

I accept that some people have had bad experiences with dogs, and that parents (as do I) tell their children not to approach dogs that they don't know.

But these are the only two instances of such extreme reactions, that I have ever encountered, and both involving 'Indian' people.
So I wonder - has anyone else experienced anything similar; or can throw any light why some people of this ethnic background have such a profound fear of dogs?
Do stray dogs in India, run around biting everyone, or steal infants from their beds?




*quite a bit of text, I'm afraid, as I'm running on max. and don't know when I can post again
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Old 26.04.2013, 09:22
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Re: Indians and dogs

Hmm...hope this is not a new mechanism to stereotype us.

Well, there are indeed stray dogs in India (and probably the sub continent), as children we were always advised to be careful with dogs (even with pets). Parts the behavior of it could come from this instruction from parents.

Having said that, I do know plenty of people who love dogs, and are not the least scared of them. Their love also shows in their children.

Next time you see a fearful child, the chances are that they have never stroked a puppy, and are scared.
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Old 26.04.2013, 09:31
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Re: Indians and dogs

I've noticed the same thing with kids who appear to be middle eastern.

We have Wheaton Terriers who are about the most un-scary dogs you could ever find, and yet on more than one occasion, I've noticed kids and/or moms step into the street or otherwise go out of their way to avoid coming near the dogs.
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Old 26.04.2013, 09:33
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Re: Indians and dogs

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Hmm...hope this is not a new mechanism to stereotype us.

Well, there are indeed stray dogs in India (and probably the sub continent), as children we were always advised to be careful with dogs (even with pets). Parts the behavior of it could come from this instruction from parents.

Having said that, I do know plenty of people who love dogs, and are not the least scared of them. Their love also shows in their children.

Next time you see a fearful child, the chances are that they have never stroked a puppy, and are scared.
Not an attempt to stereotype at all, and I was unsure as to whether to write this or not, after only two instances, but it was the extent of the reaction, that I found odd - genuine fear; that has to come from somewhere ....... parental 'education', or something deeper in the psyche perhaps? I think the "don't touch strange dogs"' is pretty universal.

As you can appreciate, outside of the big city, peoples of this ethnic background aren't so common, which maybe made it stand out more. But I can't ever recall seeing such an aversion, anywhere else before.
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Old 26.04.2013, 09:36
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Re: Indians and dogs

There are people from countries were dogs roam wild, have diseases and are scared of humans so may attack out of fear. If a mother comes from such a place she will automatically transfer her fear to her child.

When I walked my dog (43 kilos) and spotted peoples fear from a distance I'd sit her by my side or even stand between her and the people until they passed. With time and recognition some of the kids would start to get curious. All it often took was for me to tell them to hold out their hand and then tell my dog to give them 5. Fear is a powerful master why antagonize it.
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Old 26.04.2013, 09:59
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Re: Indians and dogs

trivial issue…get on with life!
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Old 26.04.2013, 10:02
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Re: Indians and dogs

Vietnamese wouldn't cower, they'd wok it!
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Old 26.04.2013, 10:03
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Re: Indians and dogs

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trivial issue…get on with life!

Frightened children trivial, get some human warmth!
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Old 26.04.2013, 10:05
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Re: Indians and dogs

"my dog is not big or fierce looking - a Cocker (and a small one, to boot)..."





Is that your dog?
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Old 26.04.2013, 10:15
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Re: Indians and dogs

Welcome to the club.

Well, I live next to a building that's housing some asylum seekers, who are no problem at all by the way. But of course there is a mix of different ethnicities from Tibetan looking people, to Indian, to African etc.

The Indian and African's are always very wary and overly cautious of the beast. The Tibetan's love him and stop to either stare, stroke or smile. I have had the Africans pin themselves to the fence and scream with fear.

Like you, I refuse to go out of my way to stop, or move to the side, or make any special effort. I just feel after numerous encounters they will soon realise they can survive the passing.

That said, I remember posting about encounters with my dog all over Zurich with Swiss people too. I have had children burst into tears and screams at the sight of the dog walking down the bahnof strasse, or parents pull their prams in close and stare worryingly as this beast stalked his next victim.

I find it amusing mostly, but can get annoying. Often I scream back, it's my way of joining in with the unnecessary hysterics and making lite of the situation by acting equally weird over nothing. It is strange, on the one hand you feel really comfortable and welcomed with a dog here, but then you also encounter people who seem to have never seen a dog in their life. Yet, their behaviour does everything possible to attract the dogs attention.

But I even get it from the dog community sometimes, and that is even more bizarre. But I have mentioned before that I think there is some Bullie breed prejudice, even if they are only 1ft tall.
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Old 26.04.2013, 10:18
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Re: Indians and dogs

Did someone tell you this



is a Cocker?
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Old 26.04.2013, 10:18
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Re: Indians and dogs

Or maybe it's not the dog at all.....
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Old 26.04.2013, 10:24
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Re: Indians and dogs

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There are people from countries were dogs roam wild, have diseases and are scared of humans so may attack out of fear. If a mother comes from such a place she will automatically transfer her fear to her child.
.
Wild/stray dogs in India quite often go around in packs and appear do attack quite frequently.

I've met people there who have had some very nasty injuries through being chased and attacked by dogs.
And of course they have to have anti-rabies course of injections after that.

Dogs really aren't seen in the same way there so people making the comparisions with here are being quite unfair on the Indians and others who are not used to, and are scared of dogs which in India are a real threat to life due to rabies.

From a New York Times article on the subject of dog attacks in India:

Quote:
Victims of the surprise attacks limp into one of this city’s biggest public hospitals. Among the hundreds on a recent day were children cornered in their homes, students ambushed on their way to class and old men ambling back from work.

Many of the animals are rabid, and India has more than a third of the world’s deaths from rabies.
All told the same frightening story: stray dogs had bitten them.

Deepak Kumar, 6, had an angry slash across his back from a dog that charged into his family’s shack..
Here
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Old 26.04.2013, 10:33
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Re: Indians and dogs

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Firstly, when I say Indians, I am referring of people who appear to originate from the Sub-Continent, but may be from neighbouring countries.

Some mornings, when my youngest goes to KG, I use it as an excuse to walk the dog. Obviously there are many children walking the same route, as there are other dog owners. Just a normal problem-free everyday scenario.

Now, my dog is not big or fierce looking - a Cocker (and a small one, to boot), and loves people, especially children, as he's grown up with them. But, at nearly 12, he's past the stage of bothering about any one or other dogs that he passes - only interested in those he knows, those who make a fuss of him, or those that visit.

Starting some time back, I sometimes passed an 'Indian' mother accompanying her boy (1st or2nd class age) ...... I was already on my way back, they are always late, so normally no one else around.

Every time we got close to passing (pavement on one side of the road only), the boy would start getting nervous, and either almost get in the bushes as we went by, or in the road (the mother too, but I don't know if this was for the same fear, or just to stay by the boy).
This has happened many times, and I'm sorry, but I won't take evasive action and walk in the road, myself, as we are doing nothing out of the ordinary.

This morning there was another mother with her boy (again of similar ethnic origins as the other), but the boy was a bit younger, pre-KG or 1st KG on free morning, as they were going in the same direction as me, away from the school.

The boy had a bike with stabilisers, but was pushing it through an alley, at the end of the alley, he looked like he was going to get on, just as we were overtaking (with plenty of space). When he saw us, he screamed out jumped away from the bike and right back into a fence, as far back as he could go.

I always keep my dog on the opposite side, when I pass people, and he is always at my side, on a slack lead - not pulling or showing interest.

I accept that some people have had bad experiences with dogs, and that parents (as do I) tell their children not to approach dogs that they don't know.

But these are the only two instances of such extreme reactions, that I have ever encountered, and both involving 'Indian' people.
So I wonder - has anyone else experienced anything similar; or can throw any light why some people of this ethnic background have such a profound fear of dogs?
Do stray dogs in India, run around biting everyone, or steal infants from their beds?




*quite a bit of text, I'm afraid, as I'm running on max. and don't know when I can post again
If you read what you wrote, you will see that you are complaining about 1-3 years old kids basically who are scared of dogs and protective mothers who are scared cos there kids are scared.

come to India and you and your kids will do the same after seeing big bulls and cows on the road and Indian kids will ride on them !
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Old 26.04.2013, 10:34
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Re: Indians and dogs

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Wild/stray dogs in India quite often go around in packs and appear do attack quite frequently.

I've met people there who have had some very nasty injuries through being chased and attacked by dogs.
And of course they have to have anti-rabies course of injections after that.

Dogs really aren't seen in the same way there so people making the comparisions with here are being quite unfair on the Indians and others who are not used to, and are scared of dogs which in India are a real threat to life due to rabies.

From a New York Times article on the subject of dog attacks in India:



Here
But when I went to India, I didn't scream and jump into the bush with fear when I saw an elephant, and they never walk down the road here or in the UK., but I've heard and can tell they can kill me easier than a dog
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Old 26.04.2013, 10:36
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Re: Indians and dogs

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If you read what you wrote, you will see that you are complaining about 1-3 years old kids basically who are scared of dogs and protective mothers who are scared cos there kids are scared.

come to India and you and your kids will do the same after seeing big bulls and cows on the road and Indian kids will ride on them !
Please, chasing cows and bulls and tipping them was a national sport as a child.

One of my Indian friends insists the dog is tied up the whole time if she is there. She doesn't come often you can understand.
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Old 26.04.2013, 10:47
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Re: Indians and dogs

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Well, there are indeed stray dogs in India (and probably the sub continent), as children we were always advised to be careful with dogs (even with pets). Parts the behavior of it could come from this instruction from parents.
I think this is the answer right there.

This is clearly not an ethnic issue, but you have isolated a group that is educated to react in a certain manner.

Dogs are masters of picking up on behavioural signals, but I don't think they can distinguish between "Fear" and "Threat" as most of are the same.

(eg. when an animal such as a snake or spider tries rears up to defend itself, we want to kill it...... but it mostly was just afraid of you in the first place)


If you raise your children to fear something rather than teach them to understand it, this will be an ongoing problem... not to mention it will create an irrational cycle over generations.
I can however understand the rationale behind it in areas where dogs are both potentially aggressive and carry disease, but the fear doesn't translate well over here.

(To be fair, I still tap my shoes before I put them on for fear of spiders, and I don't trust the little bastards at all even when I know they are not poisonous here).
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Old 26.04.2013, 11:00
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Re: Indians and dogs

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I've noticed the same thing with kids who appear to be middle eastern.

We have Wheaton Terriers who are about the most un-scary dogs you could ever find, and yet on more than one occasion, I've noticed kids and/or moms step into the street or otherwise go out of their way to avoid coming near the dogs.
Wow that is the very first dog that has bitten me in my life. Not yours but another Wheaten Terrier. The second one was a appenzeller sennenhund X dobermann.
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Old 26.04.2013, 11:23
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Re: Indians and dogs

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But when I went to India, I didn't scream and jump into the bush with fear when I saw an elephant, and they never walk down the road here or in the UK., but I've heard and can tell they can kill me easier than a dog
But that's not a fair comparison.

With your Western experience with dogs, you may had gone to India and approached a pack of wild dogs in order to give them a pat or a tickle behind the ear and then been a bit put out when they ripped off your hand and the flesh from one of your legs.

I think it's quite ingrained in the Indian culture to give dogs a bit of a wide birth.

A met a man with an elephant in the middle of nowhere in India.
I gave the elephant a banana (with the owner's consent).
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Old 26.04.2013, 11:27
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Re: Indians and dogs

Dont worry, its just a coincidence...
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