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  #21  
Old 08.05.2013, 16:33
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

A friend of mine (Tissiner) had kidney stones, then she was diagnosed with magnesium deficiency, took supplements and hasn't had then since.
Apparently magnesium increases calcium solubility.
http://www.mg12.info/articles/kidney-stones.html
So.. some minerals are actually really good for avoiding kidney stones.
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  #22  
Old 08.05.2013, 16:43
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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....mineral water....
The name of the product is a heavy clue to what it might contain

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Very happy indeed. There's some bla-bla about increased sodium-ion intake, but I'm really not interested.
You should be. Heard of the (proven) connection between salt (i.e. sodium) intake and blood pressure? You should never (as a matter of routine) drink softened water.
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Old 08.05.2013, 16:48
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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1. Swiss water is, at worst, very much softer than can be found in parts of neighbouring countries, including France and the UK.
Depends on where you are in the countries concerned. Where I live now the water is very hard as it comes from mountain springs and our mountains are basically limestone. Where I grew up the we had ground water pumped up from a chalk layer, equally hard. OTOH Yorkshire water as pointed out above is very soft.

Still for the vast majority of people hard water is beneficial to health.
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Old 08.05.2013, 16:56
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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You should never (as a matter of routine) drink softened water.
I can only agree with this 1,000%. I've performed a few experiments over the years. One of these experiments was using RO water as a source of drinking water. Professionally we would always require a calcium contactor or other zeolite to finish the water. However, I wanted to know the effects of drinking RO water straight. Lets just say that there is such a thing as an "inverse power" to gatorade. The osmotic pressure of our organs prefer a fair amount of minerals and salts. Drinking water that is overly purified is no different than drinking something caustic.

Give me hard water to drink any day.
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Old 08.05.2013, 17:21
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

My water has tons of stuff in it. Thats why I only drink coffee....oh wait.
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Old 08.05.2013, 17:38
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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1. Swiss water is, at worst, very much softer than can be found in parts of neighbouring countries, including France and the UK.
Depends on where you are in the countries concerned. Where I live now the water is very hard as it comes from mountain springs and our mountains are basically limestone. Where I grew up the we had ground water pumped up from a chalk layer, equally hard. OTOH Yorkshire water as pointed out above is very soft.
Yes, of course it varies in CH just as it does in the UK - other areas, notably in Derbyshire where I grew up, have largely limestone catchment areas, so are even harder, and where I'm sitting in France right now it's as hard as anywhere in Switzerland.

Conversely, much of the tapwater in Switzerland is actually very soft by comparison, which is why I don't get this generalised 'Swiss water is hard' claim.

I've been in the habit of using a Brita filter for twenty years or more for tea and coffee water, and still do at our place in the mountains, but a filter there will last for several months before we notice any limescale buildup in the kettle, whereas here in France (WFH day today) even a genuine Brita filter cartridge, which are much better than most generic ones, will only last three or four weeks.
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Old 08.05.2013, 18:06
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

Chemically speaking, a brita filter should not alter the base chemistry of any water. Its activated carbon after all, great for organics...but not so effective on inorganics. If anything, a brita filter would remove excess calcium in the form of individual negatively charged ions. These ions tend to adhere to activated carbon. Carbonate and bicarbonate ions would adhere...but the free calcium would pass.

I think what you are seeing when your filters clog up is more related to dissolved carbonates precipitating on your filters when the are exposed to air. Keep the filter wetter and I bet you it last longer.
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Old 08.05.2013, 18:39
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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Chemically speaking, a brita filter should not alter the base chemistry of any water. Its activated carbon after all, great for organics...but not so effective on inorganics. If anything, a brita filter would remove excess calcium in the form of individual negatively charged ions. These ions tend to adhere to activated carbon. Carbonate and bicarbonate ions would adhere...but the free calcium would pass.

I think what you are seeing when your filters clog up is more related to dissolved carbonates precipitating on your filters when the are exposed to air. Keep the filter wetter and I bet you it last longer.
Hmmm, good theory, but in practice they're never allowed to dry out. And I'm not sure if they get 'clogged up', but the limescale forming in the electric kettle is non-existent when they're new, but almost instantaneous without using a filter at all. So I've assumed that the filter is indeed removing calcium (and other) carbonate, and that it must be something more than just the charcoal doing so, i.e. a chemical process of some sort.

<googles>

OK, so found some blurb on how they work, including this "The exchange ion resin lowers the concentration of calcium carbonates, accordingly softening tap water."
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Old 08.05.2013, 18:49
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

Ion exchange resins are synthetic polymers though. They are not the same as activated carbon. Im fairly certain that you are seeing carbontates in your kettle though.

Temporary hardness us what I think most people are familiar with. The britas can help, but not fix this. You need to use other methods to be complete in its removal.
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  #30  
Old 08.05.2013, 20:16
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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This map refers to ground water but in Zurich and I suspect in other places tap water originates from lake water. Water in Zurich is rather soft (14-19).

http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/dib/de/i...aetswerte.html
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  #31  
Old 08.05.2013, 20:50
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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Ion exchange resins are synthetic polymers though. They are not the same as activated carbon. Im fairly certain that you are seeing carbontates in your kettle though.

Temporary hardness us what I think most people are familiar with. The britas can help, but not fix this. You need to use other methods to be complete in its removal.
I'm not sure what your point is, TBH. Brita claim that this resin they include in their cartridges removes carbonates; I can see that with a new and/or good filter there's little or no limescale (and no scum or stain round the teacup); that with an older and/or cheap cartridge the limescale comes back.

Is there something I'm missing?
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  #32  
Old 08.05.2013, 21:15
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

Our water is 38 before it goes through our salt "entkalker" and is 17 on the other side. Wonderful for all our machines and for clean shower doors - no lime scale.

Is it now bad for us to drink it or not? No kidney stones - I got that - but is someone suggesting it has higher sodium content now that its softer?
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  #33  
Old 08.05.2013, 21:42
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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Is it OK if I chase each glass of water with a packet of salt&vinegar crisps?
Have you found good Salt'n'Vinegar crisps?

I'm pining for the Waitrose Essential ones, they were superb.
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  #34  
Old 08.05.2013, 23:29
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Re: Water in CH too hard?


Am I the only one here who giggled at the map's key?
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Old 08.05.2013, 23:34
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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Have you found good Salt'n'Vinegar crisps?

I'm pining for the Waitrose Essential ones, they were superb.
I stock up when I go back to London. I'll try the Waitrose ones; I usually get which ever "premium" brand (eg Kettle) are on a half price offer. There's always one.
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Old 08.05.2013, 23:35
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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Is it OK if I chase each glass of water with a packet of salt&vinegar crisps?
What a great idea!
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  #37  
Old 08.05.2013, 23:38
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

I never had any concernes about how hard the water was in Adliswil, except that it was ruining my kettle and iron. So used descaler in both and now only use water from the Britta filter. Problem solved
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Old 09.05.2013, 00:05
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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Well, the hardness here is zero, it depends where you live if you have hard water or not, it's not the same even 30km away.

Tom
The Ticino is dominated by alpine stones, just as the area south of Zürich, while Zürich-North and areas like Glattbrugg are "Jurassic" which means that the drinking water is a cream of limestone and calcium, in short Lägern-Light

Clear to me is that the section in the Bible about Sodom and Lot's wife is wrong. She was not in Palestine, but somewhere in Glattbrugg when meeting her fate
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Old 09.05.2013, 00:05
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

I buy cheap alcohol vinegar from France, like 30cts a litre. Cover the bottom of the kettle with vinegar and leave for an hour- rinse, and all limescale gone. I also sprinkle it on sink and taps + tiles in kitchen and bathroom- leave for 1 minute, and wash off with a cloth. Perfect. Regularly sprinkle inside of dishwasher and washing machine too. Cheap as chips and very effective.
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Old 09.05.2013, 00:10
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Re: Water in CH too hard?

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This map refers to ground water but in Zurich and I suspect in other places tap water originates from lake water. Water in Zurich is rather soft (14-19).

http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/dib/de/i...aetswerte.html
The water in the south and centre of Zürich is 65% seawater and 35% water from the upper Sihl-valley. It is cleaned and mixed in the Kläranlage Wollishofen (just beside the schoolhouse Neubühl). In Glattbrugg it differs locally which means that the water in areas between the centre and Rümlang is far worse than east of a certain line, while it generally is "critical"
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