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Old 22.07.2013, 12:51
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

Wind turbines, solar cells and tidal generators all take resources to build. So when calculating the green footprint, you need to take that into account.

Hydro-electric power gained from flooding large areas causes considerable methane release into the atmosphere, from the decay of huge volumes of decaying vegetable matter. Methane is a far more efficient greenhouse gas than CO2.

Coal releases far more poisons (both radioactive and non-radioactive) into the environment than nuclear power ever has.

The nuclear waste question is a bit of a canard. First, the quantities are in real terms very small compared to the vast amount of dangerous chemical waste produced each year, and secondly, you can dispose of it in the same place you dispose of such chemical waste. The advantage of nuclear waste is that it gets less dangerous over time. Non-radioactive deadly poisons don't.

(In fact, perhaps dangerous chemical waste could be made radioactive so that it eventually decays into something far safer).

No form of energy production is going to be entirely risk free. Of all the current methods of production, nuclear is definitely among the safest - public perception notwithstanding. The only way to really protect the environment from energy production is to reduce the human population. Trouble if, we go back to a pre-industrial era, there will be nothing to prevent another dinosaur-killer asteroid collision or similar disaster, which will make global thermonuclear warfare look like a minor chemical leak.
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Old 22.07.2013, 13:08
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

Thanks for the links, will read them in my own time. Its interesting to see how lobbying and money can waive any concerns politicians may have. I'm not astonished at all the EU would decide that way. I guess all the studies showing that fracking pollutes water where not convincing. Like like this one, here with the link to Duke university.

I've not had time to really read into fracking but from what I've heard so far I think that we should kick everybody real hard who attempts to allow or implement fracking. Why should we want to poison our ground? And if you have to remove all the chemical stuff from the underground after fracking, would it still be cheap energy?
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Old 22.07.2013, 13:54
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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Thanks for the links, will read them in my own time. Its interesting to see how lobbying and money can waive any concerns politicians may have. I'm not astonished at all the EU would decide that way. I guess all the studies showing that fracking pollutes water were not convincing. Like like this one, here with the link to Duke university.

I've not had time to really read into fracking but from what I've heard so far I think that we should kick everybody real hard who attempts to allow or implement fracking. Why should we want to poison our ground? And if you have to remove all the chemical stuff from the underground after fracking, would it still be cheap energy?

-The hundreds of counter studies probably helped. The fact that after 2,000,000 wells, theres never been a case of aquifer water being contaminated from a fracture probably helped too.

-What you've heard so far is probably wrong. No offence to you, but fracking is incredibly complicated, and unless you are in the industry or intimately associated with it, it is not something most will easily understand.

Just out of curiosity, have you looked at how much 'chemical' actually gets used? and what it actually is?
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Old 22.07.2013, 14:20
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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-The hundreds of counter studies probably helped. The fact that after 2,000,000 wells, theres never been a case of aquifer water being contaminated from a fracture probably helped too.

-What you've heard so far is probably wrong. No offence to you, but fracking is incredibly complicated, and unless you are in the industry or intimately associated with it, it is not something most will easily understand.

Just out of curiosity, have you looked at how much 'chemical' actually gets used? and what it actually is?
Interesting, so you say these guy's talk rubbish then? http://www.dangersoffracking.com/
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Old 22.07.2013, 14:26
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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Interesting, so you say these guy's talk rubbish then? http://www.dangersoffracking.com/
Absolutely.

The following are not used as part of frac fluids:

Lead
Uranium
Mercury
Radium
Formaldehyde

Can i just say, that is an awful website to try and read. Theres a graphic which runs right down through the middle of the screen. It looks like a website designed for kids.

Incidentally, why not offer an independat website as proof?

www.nohotair.co.uk

why ignore the neutral IoD completely?
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Old 22.07.2013, 14:40
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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Incidentally, why not offer an independat website as proof?

www.nohotair.co.uk

why ignore the neutral IoD completely?
Nick Grealy independent? http://www.petroleum-economist.com/A...issionary.html

That's about as much proof as pointing to a Shell website when searching for aftereffects of the Deepwater Horizon event

Yea, he definitively would take into account any negative effects shale exploration could cause
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Old 22.07.2013, 14:48
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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Nick Grealy independent? http://www.petroleum-economist.com/A...issionary.html

That's about as much proof as pointing to a Shell website when searching for aftereffects of the Deepwater Horizon event

Yea, he definitively would take into account any negative effects shale exploration could cause

He's more independant then the website you pushed.

And the IoD?
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Old 22.07.2013, 14:49
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

You can't trust a fracking specialist as they're all associated with the fracking industry. In the same way, you can't trust a doctor as they're all associated with the medical industry.
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Old 22.07.2013, 14:57
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

Don't know if this has been seen yet but I saw this yesterday !

http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/20...src=most_viral
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Old 22.07.2013, 15:03
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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He's more independant then the website you pushed.

And the IoD?
Hmm, page 40

“There is no evidence that the hydraulic fracturing process poses any risk to underground water aquifers provided that the well-casing is intact before the process commences. "

So maybe, maybe not. Because I guess its near to impossible to check that beforehand, right?

Page 44:
Hydraulic fracturing, as this chapter has shown, is also not without risk. But as the expert reports have made clear, the risks can be managed.

They said the same about nuclear and geothermal. Reminds me a bit of the famous last words

And I think its more than fair to say that Dan Lewis is another lobbyist for fracking if you look at this.

So do you have any really independent studies to share or only lobbyist's papers?
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Old 22.07.2013, 15:08
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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Don't know if this has been seen yet but I saw this yesterday !

http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/20...src=most_viral
Naa, that can't be because:

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-The hundreds of counter studies probably helped. The fact that after 2,000,000 wells, theres never been a case of aquifer water being contaminated from a fracture probably helped too.
Right?
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  #72  
Old 22.07.2013, 15:26
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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...Its interesting really really sad to see how lobbying and money can waive any concerns politicians may have...
ftfy.
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Old 22.07.2013, 15:35
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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Hmm, page 40

“There is no evidence that the hydraulic fracturing process poses any risk to underground water aquifers provided that the well-casing is intact before the process commences. "

So maybe, maybe not. Because I guess its near to impossible to check that beforehand, right?

Page 44:
Hydraulic fracturing, as this chapter has shown, is also not without risk. But as the expert reports have made clear, the risks can be managed.

They said the same about nuclear and geothermal. Reminds me a bit of the famous last words

And I think its more than fair to say that Dan Lewis is another lobbyist for fracking if you look at this.

So do you have any really independent studies to share or only lobbyist's papers?
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Naa, that can't be because:



Right?
so...your best argument is that a few cases of bad workmanship (despite the fact that EU laws are much tougher on this) should mean we stop altogether?

Its quite possible to check if the casing is intact, its just not always been legally enforced in the US. The EU, and the UK, would.

Nothing is without risk. Also, the sky is blue and grass is green. The point is that the risk is not as high as some claim. It has been blown out of proportion, and luckily the UK government sees this.

Do you have anything against Corin Taylor?
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Old 22.07.2013, 15:40
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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-The hundreds of counter studies probably helped. The fact that after 2,000,000 wells, theres never been a case of aquifer water being contaminated from a fracture probably helped too.

-What you've heard so far is probably wrong. No offence to you, but fracking is incredibly complicated, and unless you are in the industry or intimately associated with it, it is not something most will easily understand.

Just out of curiosity, have you looked at how much 'chemical' actually gets used? and what it actually is?
You obviously do not read much about what is going on in America?

Farmer`s lands and water supplies ruined, dead wildlife, dead zones?
Tap drinking water that is inflammable?

Those in the industry.....................ever heard the expression "money talks"?
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Old 22.07.2013, 15:43
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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You obviously do not read much about what is going on in America?

Farmer`s lands and water supplies ruined, dead wildlife, dead zones?
Tap drinking water that is inflammable?

Those in the industry.....................ever heard the expression "money talks"?

There are far more farmers counting their royalties then complaining.

PS, methane in drinking water is nothing new, nor is it dangerous. Its not even routinely measured, becuse it causes such a low risk. it just looks good for the camera. Methane has been in the water supply for hundreds of years before fracking, and will be for hundreds of years after fracking.

Google 'truthlands the movie' and watch it.

Money certainly does talk...to the farmers who actively pursue the energy companies.
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Old 22.07.2013, 15:52
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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There are far more farmers counting their royalties then complaining.

PS, methane in drinking water is nothing new, nor is it dangerous. Its not even routinely measured, becuse it causes such a low risk. it just looks good for the camera. Methane has been in the water supply for hundreds of years before fracking, and will be for hundreds of years after fracking.

Google 'truthlands the movie' and watch it.

Money certainly does talk...to the farmers who actively pursue the energy companies.
Usually water puts out fire, not starts it.

Oh well, I guess the grand-children will have lots to deal with in the future - if there are any reasonably healthy ones able to do any thinking, or have the ability to care about anything.

Such a pity that future generations will not reap any positive benefits from what adults are now doing.

All because of money. The new God? Of course. Except you can`t eat or drink money. You can only use it to buy food - if there is any available.

Such learned folk subscribing to what they are unable to control and who have NO idea of the far reaching possibilities of what they are undertaking - because they want what they want in the now - and damn the consequences. Who really cares about bringing deformed children into the world - you can always hide them in institutions. And blame cancers on genetic footprints.
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Old 22.07.2013, 15:59
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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Do you have anything against Corin Taylor?
Not personally

But from what I can see online he seems to be in the same lobbying group. Earns money by selling his opinion, not what I would call a trusted advisor
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Old 25.07.2013, 12:06
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

Here is another general info site on Fracking (with pictures)

http://likes.com/javedpiara/what-is-..._term=26044221

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Old 25.07.2013, 12:49
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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Here is another general info site on Fracking (with pictures)

http://likes.com/javedpiara/what-is-..._term=26044221

Hmmm
Point 12 says shale gas is better than coal re greenhouse gases & point 9 says coal is better than shale gas
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Old 25.07.2013, 14:01
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

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Here is another general info site on Fracking (with pictures)

http://likes.com/javedpiara/what-is-..._term=26044221

It appears to have taken (very limited) excerpts from both for and against sites, without going into any detail. I assume for the detail you have to go to the for/against site itself, which are far from neutral.
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