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Old 20.07.2013, 23:48
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Earthquake - St Gallen (aka worldwide nuclear disasters - don't ask)

Earthquake in St Gallen, fricken fracking again, when will people learn!

http://genevalunch.com/2013/07/20/ge...s-earthquakes/
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Old 21.07.2013, 00:40
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

Fracking is usually associated with the process where they look for gas deposits in the rock. Which can have severe impacts on the environment.

But in St. Gallen they are looking for geothermal energy to heat the city clean cheaply. The public approved the funds for this project in a vote, so it has democratic sanction.

In my opinion this is not the same level of evilness you seem to associate with commercial fracking for gas.
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Old 21.07.2013, 00:55
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

Basel had the same idea - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced...icity_in_Basel
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Old 21.07.2013, 03:18
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

Pity; geo thermal always looked like a good solution to replace the type of energy generation that is believed to cause global warming.
As mentioned first Basel & now St Gallen had experiments that caused earthquakes in the 3+ range. Good reason to stop.
Always an issue with green approaches; nobody really knows the consequent effects.

Maybe the new EU approach that allows nations to subsidise new nuclear power stations is not such a bad idea after all.
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Old 21.07.2013, 07:20
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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Maybe the new EU approach that allows nations to subsidise new nuclear power stations is not such a bad idea after all.
Wouldn't solar or wind be more "green"? Are there issues with their implementation that are as severe as potential problems with nuclear stations?
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Old 21.07.2013, 08:30
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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Wouldn't solar or wind be more "green"? Are there issues with their implementation that are as severe as potential problems with nuclear stations?
Solar and wind are day-dream solutions - especially ugly wind turbines in Switzerland. There's now one on the autobahn to Chur. What a mess!

I think they should ignore the earthquakes and keep drilling...
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Old 21.07.2013, 09:16
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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Maybe the new EU approach that allows nations to subsidise new nuclear power stations is not such a bad idea after all.
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Solar and wind are day-dream solutions - especially ugly wind turbines in Switzerland. There's now one on the autobahn to Chur. What a mess!

I think they should ignore the earthquakes and keep drilling...
I rather have an ugly wind turbine than a f***** ugly nuclear meltdown. You can remove the turbine without any traces but Fukushima and Chernobyl show you that we simply cannot control nuclear power plants.

If you want nuclear power, you have to be ready to watch these



Now you can build any amount of nuclear power plants you want IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

I cannot believe that people still, after both accidents think nuclear power plants are an option. The inhabitable zone around Chernobyl is 4300km2. Thats more than 1/10 of Switzerland and as we don't have nuclear power plants in the Alps we could be forced to give up large parts of our inhabitable areas. Come one, we are able to learn, right? We don't have to repeat the errors of the generations before us.
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Old 21.07.2013, 09:48
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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Solar and wind are day-dream solutions - especially ugly wind turbines in Switzerland. There's now one on the autobahn to Chur. What a mess!

I think they should ignore the earthquakes and keep drilling...
People used to say the same about electricity poles!
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Old 21.07.2013, 11:39
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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I rather have an ugly wind turbine than a f***** ugly nuclear meltdown. You can remove the turbine without any traces but Fukushima and Chernobyl show you that we simply cannot control nuclear power plants.



Now you can build any amount of nuclear power plants you want IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

I cannot believe that people still, after both accidents think nuclear power plants are an option. The inhabitable zone around Chernobyl is 4300km2. Thats more than 1/10 of Switzerland and as we don't have nuclear power plants in the Alps we could be forced to give up large parts of our inhabitable areas. Come one, we are able to learn, right? We don't have to repeat the errors of the generations before us.
I never mentioned any support for nuclear.

What I want if geothermal and hang the earthquake risk...
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Old 21.07.2013, 11:40
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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People used to say the same about electricity poles!
Which will be why they are put underground now...
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Old 21.07.2013, 12:02
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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Which will be why they are put underground now...
ha fair enuff, but i dont think wind turbines would work too good underground!
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Old 21.07.2013, 12:18
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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Earthquake in St Gallen, fricken fracking again, when will people learn!

http://genevalunch.com/2013/07/20/ge...s-earthquakes/

here the general risk of earthquakes in Switzerland




******************************************

the same idea, but a far higher risk-zone, as shown above
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Old 21.07.2013, 12:24
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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Wouldn't solar or wind be more "green"? Are there issues with their implementation that are as severe as potential problems with nuclear stations?
Nuclear runs 24 hours per day & 365 days a year.
Solar does not work at night & wind is only good on windy days; both are dream solutions until somebody finds a reliable way to store large amounts of electricity to fill the gaps. Building solar & wind installations will not allow you to close one power station due to the need to supply electricity during the gaps; think of ice cold winter nights with no wind.

About " Fukushima and Chernobyl show you that we simply cannot control nuclear power plants. "

Sadly major industrial accidents do happen; does not mean we should over react - Fukushima and Chernobyl were relatively small in terms of deaths.

Examples
  • December 6, 1917: Halifax explosion. A ship loaded with about 9000 tons of high explosives destined for France caught fire as a result of a collision in Halifax harbour, and exploded. Killed about 2000, injured about 9000.
  • July 17, 1944: Port Chicago Disaster. A munitions explosion that killed 320 people occurred at the Port Chicago Naval Magazine in Port Chicago, California.
  • May 1962: The Centralia, Pennsylvania coal mine fire began, forcing the gradual evacuation of the Centralia borough. The fire continues to burn in the abandoned borough, 2,700 people had to move away.
  • July 6, 1988: Piper Alpha disaster. An explosion and resulting fire on a North Sea oil production platform kills 167 men.
    <LI sizset="false" sizcache016613844353409313="37 103 141">September 11, 2012: Karachi, Pakistan, 289 people died in a fire at the Ali Enterprises garment factory, <LI sizset="false" sizcache016613844353409313="37 103 141">December 3, 1984: The Bhopal disaster in India is one of the largest industrial disasters on record. A runaway reaction in a tank containing poisonous methyl isocyanate Estimates of its death toll range from 4,000 to 20,000.
  • November 24, 2012: Dhaka Tasreen Fashions fire. A seven story factory fire outside of Dhaka, the capital of Bangladesh, killed at least 112 people,
  • March 2011: Fukushima I nuclear accidents in Japan. Regarded as the largest nuclear disaster since the Chernobyl disaster, there were no direct deaths.
  • April 26, 1986: Chernobyl disaster. The ensuing steam explosion and fire killed up to 50 people
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Old 21.07.2013, 12:45
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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Solar and wind are day-dream solutions - especially ugly wind turbines in Switzerland. There's now one on the autobahn to Chur. What a mess!

I think they should ignore the earthquakes and keep drilling...
The windmills should look as here




I am in favour of sun-ernergy collectors on buildings at the airport and on top of the Prime Tower and such buildings, but on "normal" buildings they are ugly. Add to this that the figures "EnergieSchweiz" gives on their WEBsite like "70% of the energy for kitchen and bathroom" sound like forged to prove their point.
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Old 21.07.2013, 12:52
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

I think they are some of the most beatiful things built by homosapien.
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Solar and wind are day-dream solutions - especially ugly wind turbines in Switzerland. There's now one on the autobahn to Chur. What a mess!

I think they should ignore the earthquakes and keep drilling...
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Old 21.07.2013, 12:57
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

There you go, I lived very nearby and remember that very well
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Old 21.07.2013, 13:11
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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Nuclear runs 24 hours per day & 365 days a year.
Solar does not work at night & wind is only good on windy days; both are dream solutions until somebody finds a reliable way to store large amounts of electricity to fill the gaps. Building solar & wind installations will not allow you to close one power station due to the need to supply electricity during the gaps; think of ice cold winter nights with no wind.

About " Fukushima and Chernobyl show you that we simply cannot control nuclear power plants. "

Sadly major industrial accidents do happen; does not mean we should over react - Fukushima and Chernobyl were relatively small in terms of deaths.

E
You can't compare nuclear accidents with other major disasters. We have a lot of large dams in Switzerland. If one them breaks, many people would get killed, whole towns would be razed to ground. But the next day, you can start cleaning up and rebuilding.

However, if a disaster comparable to Chernobyl happened in Gösgen, making a third of Switzerland's habitable land inhabitable, there would be no rebuilding for the next hundred years due the nuclear contamination. Switzerland, as we know it, would cease to exist.
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Old 21.07.2013, 13:30
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

I think it is a moot point, the radiation levels from civilian nuclear disasters is not on the same scale as the impact from coal or oil fired plants, and let's not go to the air burst nukes during the cold war, if you think that the super powers popped off the equivalent of a major thermo-nuclear war with at least 2500 so-called tests and we are still alive alive oh!
The waste from burning Coal is actually up to a hundred times more radioactive than what you get from a nuke plant according to Scientific American, also you should think about getting shut of the smoke detectors in your house.
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Old 21.07.2013, 13:46
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

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You can't compare nuclear accidents with other major disasters. We have a lot of large dams in Switzerland. If one them breaks, many people would get killed, whole towns would be razed to ground. But the next day, you can start cleaning up and rebuilding.

However, if a disaster comparable to Chernobyl happened in Gösgen, making a third of Switzerland's habitable land inhabitable, there would be no rebuilding for the next hundred years due the nuclear contamination. Switzerland, as we know it, would cease to exist.
Don't be daft - 40,000 people died from an 8.9 level earthquake and all the quacks can jump up and down about is the Fukushima plant which killed exactly zero people.

In China 20000 workers a year die from coal mining and roughly 750,000 from atmospheric pollution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining
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Old 21.07.2013, 13:57
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Re: Earthquake - St Gallen

Solution
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