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  #41  
Old 15.03.2014, 09:11
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

Its the best motivation to speak their language. Don't forget a C permit is a residence permit, meaning you really are on the way to becoming Swiss!

My experience at gaining a C permit... I took the forms to the office, we joked about how the photo was flattering (5 years before) I laughed and begged her to keep the same photo (I don't photograph well and it wasn't too bad!) and then she and I laughed some more. She checked the form's and she told me the permit would be sent to my address within a month, she wasn't lying. This was all done in the local language.

I understand how difficult it must be if you are working/living in an English speaking environment but never give up on learning the local language!

Last edited by awayaway; 15.03.2014 at 09:38.
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  #42  
Old 15.03.2014, 10:27
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Since I'm here for a bit more than 5 years now (from the Netherlands), I recently had to renew my B permit. And without asking for it they upgraded it to a C permit. They wanted some additional documents (e.g. work contract status) but luckily no language proficiency certificate. It could help that the conversation was done in German (although not fluent).
Dutch people and nationals of some other countries are exempted, these countries are listed above.
I feel it is not right to use this language passport to discriminate against people. The language passport is an EU idea and now it is being used to discriminate against EU citizens!
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  #43  
Old 15.03.2014, 11:07
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

Maybe because we (Dutch/Netherlands) are also such a small country?
But I agree that is does not seem fair to not apply this rule for some countries in Europe while others benefit by not having this language requirement
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  #44  
Old 15.03.2014, 11:12
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

There are a lot of stereotypes for English Speakers. I think
just about everyone planning to stay for longer should learn
the local language, but I think it is hard for stay at home
mothers and People that work in only English.


People automatically want to speak English with me, but my
German is Level C2.
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  #45  
Old 15.03.2014, 11:19
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Maybe because we (Dutch/Netherlands) are also such a small country?
A small country? The Netherlands has the 8th largest population of the 28 member states of the EU ... and twice as many residents as Switzerland.
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  #46  
Old 15.03.2014, 11:32
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Maybe because we (Dutch/Netherlands) are also such a small country?
But I agree that is does not seem fair to not apply this rule for some countries in Europe while others benefit by not having this language requirement
Or because our language is so similar to Swissgerman?
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  #47  
Old 15.03.2014, 12:27
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

maybe the way to look at it is to ask if anyone has ever been refused a C permit due to a lack of german? it doesn't seem so.
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  #48  
Old 15.03.2014, 12:37
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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maybe the way to look at it is to ask if anyone has ever been refused a C permit due to a lack of german? it doesn't seem so.
I know someone recent who speaks ok german with british passport was refused because no A2 certificate despite spaeking german to gemeinde. Zurich Kanton said no certificate then no C Permit you still keep the b permit.

Quite recently
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  #49  
Old 15.03.2014, 12:39
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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I know someone recent who speaks ok german with british passport was refused because no A2 certificate despite spaeking german to gemeinde. Zurich Kanton said no certificate then no C Permit you still keep the b permit.

Quite recently
was the request for a certificate from the migrationsamt, or verbally from the gemeinde? was the reason for refusal in writing?
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  #50  
Old 15.03.2014, 12:41
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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was the request for a certificate from the migrationsamt, or verbally from the gemeinde? was the reason for refusal in writing?
Kanton and yes it was in writing, the gemeinde actually said it wasnt necessary but Kanton disagreed
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  #51  
Old 15.03.2014, 13:05
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Kanton and yes it was in writing, the gemeinde actually said it wasnt necessary but Kanton disagreed
that's interesting. did you see the letter?

by coincidence i went to the gemeinde maybe 4 weeks ago as my b permit was about to expire. i asked what i needed to do to renew it. they said that i need not have gone to them as they usually send a letter automatically, but since i was there, they would start the process.

they also asked if i wanted to apply for the c permit. i said yes and the lady wrote a note on the bottom of the form that a c permit was requested. she said that i would get a letter from the migrationsamt which would list the additional things i would need to send.

the letter came the next week and requested only 3 things:

- confirmation of work from the employer (duration and average working hours)
- confirmation of social help from your gemeinde for the last 3 years
- extract from the betriebungsamt for the last 3 years

no mention of language in the letter, no mention from the gemeinde either.

i sent all the stuff and a few weeks later got the c permit through the post.

i have a british passport.

now i can see a few possibilities for the discrepancy:

1. the gemeinde assesses you for language secretly when you meet them and note this somehow on the form
2. there are other factors which determine whether they ask for a language certificate
3. you friend got refused on the basis of socialhelp but told you it was language for social stigma reasons
4. different treatment in different communes. i was in stadt zurich. but also it doesn't tally with the fact that your friend's gemeinde said it was not necessary.
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  #52  
Old 15.03.2014, 13:09
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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that's interesting. did you see the letter?

by coincidence i went to the gemeinde maybe 4 weeks ago as my b permit was about to expire. i asked what i needed to do to renew it. they said that i need not have gone to them as they usually send a letter automatically, but since i was there, they would start the process.

they also asked if i wanted to apply for the c permit. i said yes and the lady wrote a note on the bottom of the form that a c permit was requested. she said that i would get a letter from the migrationsamt which would list the additional things i would need to send.

the letter came the next week and requested only 3 things:

- confirmation of work from the employer (duration and average working hours)
- confirmation of social help from your gemeinde for the last 3 years
- extract from the betriebungsamt for the last 3 years

no mention of language in the letter, no mention from the gemeinde either.

i sent all the stuff and a few weeks later got the c permit through the post.

i have a british passport.

now i can see a few possibilities for the discrepancy:

1. the gemeinde assesses you for language secretly when you meet them and note this somehow on the form
2. there are other factors which determine whether they ask for a language certificate
3. you friend got refused on the basis of socialhelp but told you it was language for social stigma reasons
4. different treatment in different communes. i was in stadt zurich. but also it doesn't tally with the fact that your friend's gemeinde said it was not necessary.
Yes I saw the letter

The reason is actually number 4 as the wealtier gemeindes have a arrangement based on tax with the kanton. I had this confirmed by my HR at work where it is known that there is an unequal approach. So if you live in the right gemeinde it is automatic if you dont then toughy!

Number 3 is not the case since they have never had social help
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  #53  
Old 15.03.2014, 13:15
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Since I'm here for a bit more than 5 years now (from the Netherlands), I recently had to renew my B permit. And without asking for it they upgraded it to a C permit. They wanted some additional documents (e.g. work contract status) but luckily no language proficiency certificate. It could help that the conversation was done in German (although not fluent).
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Or because our language is so similar to Swissgerman?
Or because there is a reciprocal agreement between Switzerland and the Netherlands.... As with Greece, Spain, Portugal... who's languages are not really close to Swiss German. Though France & Italy also have those agreements in place and their languages aren't close to Swiss German either...
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  #54  
Old 15.03.2014, 13:24
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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the wealthier gemeindes have a arrangement based on tax with the kanton. I had this confirmed by my HR at work where it is known that there is an unequal approach.
what do you mean by this? that some gemeindes pay more tax to have their residents avoid a language test? or that if you pay more than a certain amount of tax you don't have a language test?
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  #55  
Old 15.03.2014, 13:28
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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http://www.zg.ch/behoerden/sicherhei...etzesaenderung

This is the link regarding the change to C permit regulations in Canton Zug. I am assuming that this is the same regulation that has been put in place in Zurich. The line below refers to the agreements that the countries listed below have with Switzerland and thus they are issued a C permit without the language requirement. All other EU citizens must have the language requirement to get a C permit is my understanding from the document.

Aufgrund von Niederlassungsvereinbarungen und Erklärungen des Bundesrates erhalten die Staatsangehörigen folgender Staaten die Niederlassungsbewilligung nach einem ordnungsgemässen und ununterbrochenen Aufenthalt von fünf Jahren in der Schweiz:

Belgien, Bundesrepublik Deutschland, Dänemark, Frankreich, Fürstentum Liechtenstein, Griechenland, Italien, Niederlande, Österreich, Portugal und Spanien.
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Or because there is a reciprocal agreement between Switzerland and the Netherlands.... As with Greece, Spain, Portugal... who's languages are not really close to Swiss German. Though France & Italy also have those agreements in place and their languages aren't close to Swiss German either...
As in all these countries in a post from page one of the thread. It wouldn't matter if the language spoken was Chinese, Swahili, Martian or indeed double Dutch because these countries have a reciprocal agreement withSwitzerland.

For those of you who don't speak or read German here the countries which don't have to fulfil the language requirement are Belgium, Germany, Denmark, France, Lichtenstein, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Spain.

Citizens of other EU countries may have to provide a language certificate but it does seem to be canton/ commune ( gemeinde) dependant.
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  #56  
Old 15.03.2014, 14:21
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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This would put people from other EU countries which don't share a language with Switzerland at an uneven and unfair disadvantage.
Speaking one of the national languages is only an advantage is you live in a canton where the language you speak is also an official language. I speak fluent Italian, but de jure it's F-all use to me in canton Zurich.
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There are a lot of stereotypes for English Speakers. I think just about everyone planning to stay for longer should learn
the local language, but I think it is hard for stay at home
mothers and People that work in only English.
It can be difficult to learn a language, especially if you're a stay-at-home parent or work in a fully-English speaking working environment (or where it comes to German, because it's not actually the local language in reality).

But let's be honest; to qualify for the C status, you need to be here for five years and an A2 level in a language is just the ability to construct and understand short simple sentences in a variety of scenarios - basically little more than the level needed to order a meal at a restaurant. If you can't reach that level, even through daily interaction, in five years then it's not because it's too difficult, but because you've not tried.

And while I can understand not bothering to learn a language if you're only planning on staying a few years, but if you're looking to become a permanent resident, make a bloody effort.
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  #57  
Old 15.03.2014, 14:49
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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As in all these countries in a post from page one of the thread. It wouldn't matter if the language spoken was Chinese, Swahili, Martian or indeed double Dutch because these countries have a reciprocal agreement withSwitzerland.

For those of you who don't speak or read German here the countries which don't have to fulfil the language requirement are Belgium, Germany, Denmark, France, Lichtenstein, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Spain.

Citizens of other EU countries may have to provide a language certificate but it does seem to be canton/ commune ( gemeinde) dependant.
And it's a good thing I didn't have to provide evidence of German skills... I'd be stuffed!
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  #58  
Old 15.03.2014, 16:04
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

I filled the B-permit renewal forms for my family at my Gemeinde in canton Zurich and as instructed wrote on the back that I wanted to apply for a c-permit. We're uk citizens. After a few weeks I got a letter from the Migrationsamt, asking for the same 3 pieces of information other people have mentioned.

After I'd sent these in, I received a second letter from the Migrationsamt asking for certificate proof of A2 Deutsch - and this letter was dated early january, before the original letter asking for the 3 pieces of information, but wasn't posted until March!

So now my husband is going to quickly do the A2 exam and after discussions with the Migrationsamt they have lengthened the time limit for sending in his certificate, as I pointed out that it simply wasn't fair to change the requirements after I'd paid for the all the other documentation!
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  #59  
Old 15.03.2014, 16:07
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

Definitely a good thing. should be a B1 requirement. I think 5 years is more than long enough to learn the language.... Oder ?
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  #60  
Old 15.03.2014, 16:08
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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And it's a good thing I didn't have to provide evidence of German skills... I'd be stuffed!
Me too.
German skills would be pretty useless round here in any case, I don't even think they speak much in the commune office if a couple of the conversations I've overheard whilst in there are indicative of their German speaking skills.
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