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  #101  
Old 17.03.2014, 10:48
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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All EU citizens are entitled to live in Germany or France without any language certificate being required.
actually, they also are in Switzerland: with the B permit.
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  #102  
Old 17.03.2014, 13:51
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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actually, they also are in Switzerland: with the B permit.
If something requires a permit, then it's not an entitlement.
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  #103  
Old 17.03.2014, 13:52
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Whether EU countries require a language certificate or not is totally irrelevant.
Not to the people involved it isn't.
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  #104  
Old 17.03.2014, 13:54
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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If something requires a permit, then it's not an entitlement.
But you also need a permit ( carte de sejour, aufenhaltserlaubnis etc) for France and Germany so where's the difference?
You can continue living in Switzerland on a B if you choose not to get the language certificate ( in the places that require them which seems to be only a few if the German speaking cantons anyway).
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  #105  
Old 17.03.2014, 13:58
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Not to the people involved it isn't.
But the people involved are not in Switzerland which is what this thread is about.
The language requirements in France and Germany are completely irrelevant to the Swiss issue.

Whether they require a certificate or not it is extremely difficult to negotiate the bureaucracy there without some grasp of the local language and in a lot of places ( outside the major cities) there are far fewer competent English speakers than there are here in Switzerland.
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  #106  
Old 17.03.2014, 14:12
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

Don't be too hard on him BM, he has only been in CH for 4 years- not enough to even begin to learn anything (even if he speaks Afrikaans- which should make learning Swiss German a tad easier- my mil spoke Afrikaans and could understand SG easily)
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  #107  
Old 17.03.2014, 15:05
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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It is not about logical or not. These countries have a treaty with Switzerland.
And after 5 years, everyone should be able to speak a language at A2 level.
Ehm, I am Italian and for me German is a mixture of incomprehensible noises
On the other hand I learned French at b1 in just 2 months.
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Spanish, Portuguese and Italians are exempt from this requirement. Does that seem logical to you?
For spanish and Portoguese I don't know, for Italians, for example, when we call the Swisscom call center we can select "Italian" and speak with an italian operator

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I would say instead that many monolingual English-speaking foreigners in Switzerland had it, and still have it very good, compared to other Western European countries...

Try to live in France, Germany or Italy only speaking English, even in the big cities (I talk out of personal experience)...good luck. You won't go very far there with the "English-speaking doctor/nanny/mechanic/slave needed" attitude, or at least not as far as here...and almost no insurance/service company will give you a dedicated English-speaking customer service (I know English-speaking people in Germany who got told on the phone "We are in Germany here, so we speak only German to our customers").

The Swiss have been very accomodating so far...
Oh, yes, in Italy, if you speak only English you are lost I Think only a 2% of Italians speak and understand English enough.

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All EU citizens are entitled to live in Germany or France without any language certificate being required.
Ok, but if I want to go in Holland or Greece speaking only Italian how I can survive there? ( Ok, in Greece yes because a lot of Greek speak Italian ^^)
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  #108  
Old 17.03.2014, 16:09
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Oh, yes, in Italy, if you speak only English you are lost I Think only a 2% of Italians speak and understand English enough.
Actually the number is about 34%, believe it or not, although I'd agree that Italians are second only to Anglophones where it comes to being lazy with languages (including Italian, given the continued widespread popular use of local dialects).
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Ok, but if I want to go in Holland or Greece speaking only Italian how I can survive there? ( Ok, in Greece yes because a lot of Greek speak Italian ^^)
Mare Nostrum...
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  #109  
Old 17.03.2014, 16:19
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Actually the number is about 34%, believe it or not, although I'd agree that Italians are second only to Anglophones where it comes to being lazy with languages (including Italian, given the continued widespread popular use of local dialects).

Mare Nostrum...
It depends on the region, when I was in Abruzzo at high school only two or three friends understood and speak English enough for having a simple conversation; in Milan, at the university, the percent was significantly more higher.
Every Italian knows his city dialect but every Italian understand and know to speak Italian and use it outside friends and family circle ( more or less correctly) In Swtzerland is different because Swiss people speak in swiss dialect during official situations

P.S. I have found people speaking Italian all over the world, this is the reason why Italians are lazy in learning foreign languages
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  #110  
Old 17.03.2014, 17:46
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

What a pity learning Italian doesn't qualify you for a C permit all over Switzerland!

An A2 level of German is useless when dealing with Swiss German speakers. Far better to speak with them in English.
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  #111  
Old 17.03.2014, 17:52
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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But you also need a permit ( carte de sejour, aufenhaltserlaubnis etc) for France and Germany so where's the difference?
The difference is that you are entitled to these permits. Got that?
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  #112  
Old 17.03.2014, 18:24
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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The difference is that you are entitled to these permits. Got that?
Up to the famous initiative and for up to three more years, the rules are the same in CH. If you have the means to pay for yourself, schengen european you stay, otherwise, you leave. Same in Germany in France and whole of Europe schengen really. Germany doesn't physically issue cards permits though, your schengen passport is enough. In Grance, by the time one gets the alian card, one qualifies for citizenship.
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  #113  
Old 17.03.2014, 18:35
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

I got my C permit last year & I am South African, so non EU completely. I spoke 'broken' German but they accepted it & issued my C permit. I had to get alot of paperwork like the Swiss criminal record since I have been here for years. I think it depends on the Gemeinde and if you are living in Zürich city or the towns within kanton Zurich. My town is close to Thalwil and very very small. I asked them if I need to provided any German language certification and they said no as I was talking to them in German. Not sure if my comments help but that was my experience.
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  #114  
Old 17.03.2014, 18:52
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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The difference is that you are entitled to these permits. Got that?
I got that long ago and having lived in both countries actually have first hand experience but as I said before and as Faltrad has reiterated you still have to be able to support yourself so in reality how is it any different to the situation in Switzerland at the moment?
It's also totally irrelevant to the issue of some Swiss cantons requiring evidence of language skills before issuing C permits which is actually the topic of this thread. Got that?
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  #115  
Old 17.03.2014, 19:15
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Not to mention GR, however not many communities are officially bilingual like Biel-Bienne.
Correspondence language with all authorities (incl. the communities) is defined by the cantonal rules only.

GR is not bilingue.....it's the only canton that is trilingual
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  #116  
Old 17.03.2014, 19:22
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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An A2 level of German is useless when dealing with Swiss German speakers. Far better to speak with them in English.
What a load of nonsense.

Swiss German speakers are taught standard German in School. They watch German television. They read German publications.

Even at A1 level, the ability to reference something in German, rather than English, even if one cannot construct anything other than the most basic of sentence, already opens up communication with those Swiss who don't speak English, of which - especially tradespeople or others who may not have gone to a Gymnasium - you'll find there are plenty.

Seriously, why don't you just come clean and admit that you feel you should be entitled to have permanent residency to a country without making the slightest effort to learn the local language?
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  #117  
Old 17.03.2014, 20:21
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Seriously, why don't you just come clean and admit that you feel you should be entitled to have permanent residency to a country without making the slightest effort to learn the local language?
Isn't it exactly this kind of immigrants the voters for the last initiative don't want to have in their country?
Genuine question.
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  #118  
Old 17.03.2014, 20:33
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Isn't it exactly this kind of immigrants the voters for the last initiative don't want to have in their country?
Genuine question.
The impression I got was that voters who supported the last initiative did so because they thought it was going to affect the nationalities of those who ironically were left unaffected by the the last initiative.

But in general yes, and countries like France, the UK and even Germany are often cited by the Swiss as examples of where immigration has resulted in the failure of ghettoisation and disjointed sub-cultures forming.

I've seen Anglophones doing the same thing here; after 20 years, ghettoised in a social circle of English-speaking expats, barely able to string two words of German/French/Italian together, expecting everyone to speak English and blissfully unaware of what is going on down the road from them.
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  #119  
Old 17.03.2014, 20:41
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

I thought the point of the last initiative was to keep out the Germans, Romanians, Bulgarians and to open the door nice and wide for the Indians. I'm only mystery is which SVP politicians have interests in the large Indian IT consultancies.

Cheers,
Nick

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Isn't it exactly this kind of immigrants the voters for the last initiative don't want to have in their country?
Genuine question.
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  #120  
Old 17.03.2014, 23:17
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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Seriously, why don't you just come clean and admit that you feel you should be entitled to have permanent residency to a country without making the slightest effort to learn the local language?
I speak C2 level German which I learned before becoming here. In fact I can confidently say that I speak better Hochdeutsch than many Swiss. What bugs me is the Swiss asking for certification in a language that they themselves do not speak.
In non work situations, I usually speak English to avoid being mistaken for a German. I find I get a much more positive reaction that way.
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