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  #161  
Old 21.03.2014, 10:04
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

@eddie - do a search here on EF for learning German (or French or Italian). There are loads of threads about learning languages in CH. Some people like CDs, others like online programs, and others find the classroom setting to be better. It really depends on your learning style, but the resources are definitely there.
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  #162  
Old 21.03.2014, 10:27
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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(I say "competent" because it sounds as if this "C" permit doesn't require complete fluency, but rather intermediate language skills.)
The level that's been quoted here is A2, which is beginners, rather than intermediate. According to the Goethe Institut site, this means, in practical terms:
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Can understand sentences and frequently used expressions related to areas of most immediate relevance (e.g. very basic personal and family information, shopping, local geography, employment). Can communicate in simple and routine tasks requiring a simple and direct exchange of information on familiar and routine matters. Can describe in simple terms aspects of his/her background, immediate environment and matters in areas of immediate need.
I did this level back in 2009 and most of what you learn is parroting off sentences that you've effectively memorised - the moment you try constructing something new, you start getting into trouble, unless it's very, very simple. I remember being told that with A2 level, your vocabulary is expected to be about 1,000 words.

To reach this level over a five year period does not require a huge amount of effort, TBH. But it does require some, and given some of the responses, and excuses, here there appears to be serious resentment from some that they should put in any effort whatsoever.
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  #163  
Old 21.03.2014, 10:33
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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The level that's been quoted here is A2, which is beginners, rather than intermediate.

To reach this level over a five year period does not require a huge amount of effort, TBH. But it does require some, and given some of the responses, and excuses, here there appears to be serious resentment from some that they should put in any effort whatsoever.
I didn't have to do any courses or tests for my C permit, but what I find annoying about most of them that I've tried online is that they're all written and fail to recognise the huge difference there can be between one's spoken and written language skills. Frankly I gave up trying to be grammatically correct years ago, and these days I can usually carry on a perfectly understandable conversation in German without too much difficulty, but the tests invariably put me down at A1 level, which is a nonsense.
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  #164  
Old 21.03.2014, 10:37
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

Which is why the A2 certificate examination is a combination of reading, writing, comprehension (listening) and spoken (conversation). A written-only test would be a poor measure of someone's competency in any language - many native English speakers would fail an English version, TBH.
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  #165  
Old 21.03.2014, 11:08
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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My guess is, you mean Konjunktiv 1. The K2 is naturally build with würde nowadays, no difficulty whatsoever and the few verbs that just sound ridiculous with würde are so often used, German speakers don't waste a millisecond on thinking before doing it right. If you mean the apophotical forms of Konjunktiv 2 of strong verbs, I'd say it's sociolectal: the more educated, the less hesitation. And it's ridiculous to say früge nowadays anyway…

Even if you mean Konjunktiv 1, (er wisse, ich sei, ihr gebet…) it takes longer to an educated non native to get it right in speech than it takes for a normal German or Swiss or Austrian gymnasiast to show off with it in literature class. Not that the native would use it in daily life for any other purpose than hope of a better grade in German, we agree on that.



Yea, but if you can't identify three main "coloring" of High German in Germany, I can. The eastern version is fading away, I admit that.
Exactly, thanks- how difficult is it to swap 'würde' for 'would'??? (ok, you have to be able to conjugate the verb, but it is not brain surgery, is it?). Konjunktiv 1 is a different kettle of fish, and like subjonctif in French- is, as you quite rightly say, often not mastered by natives either. The trick is to learn to avoir it altogether by using another structure used with infinitive...

BUT, and here is the bit BUT- mastering either of the above has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with being able to communicate at basic level, and nothing to do with integration either.
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  #166  
Old 21.03.2014, 12:19
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

Jesus Christ. So you managed to learn another language. So what? Big Whoop. I don't know if people have achieved so little in their life that learning another language is considered cause to try to lord it over others from some kind of linguistic high horse? FFS, some of you are sounding as bad as newly converted vegans!

I know people who have lived in Zurich for over a decade and can barely speak two words of German. And guess what? They're perfectly OK with it. They don't care. I don't care that they don't care. They are pretty happy getting on with their lives.

Maybe they have so much other fun stuff to do that learning German doesn't deserve any time? Different people, different priorities.
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  #167  
Old 29.01.2015, 10:12
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

I have heard rumours of the language A2 test requirment for everybody in Zurich since 1st Jan 2015. Tried to find something in the official website but couldnt get anything clear...

Any of you knows about the topic?
Thanks!
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  #168  
Old 29.01.2015, 10:35
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Re: New language requirement for EU, C Permit

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I have heard rumours of the language A2 test requirment for everybody in Zurich since 1st Jan 2015. Tried to find something in the official website but couldnt get anything clear...

Any of you knows about the topic?
Thanks!

http://www.ma.zh.ch/internet/sicherh...ewilligung.pdf
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