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  #81  
Old 28.04.2014, 16:50
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

Up until last year you could legally have sex with a sixteen year old hooker in Zürich for less than CHF 250. You'd end up in jail in most European countries trying the same.

So why are all the expats spending their money on Mars bars, Coke soda or liters of milk rather than supporting local businesses?
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  #82  
Old 28.04.2014, 17:02
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

call me old fashioned but id rather have 100 mars bars than a 16yo hooker in zurich.

i can resell the mars bars for a profit.
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  #83  
Old 28.04.2014, 17:12
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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More quetions raised.

£400 in waitrose will go much, much further if you buy the same standard (ie, unbranded) than 400CHF in Switzerland. Plus, the waitrose stuff will be better quality.

£400 in Tesco will feed me for 6 months in the UK, 400CHF here will last maybe 2.5.
I've already answered these questions.

I bought a trolley full of groceries in Waitrose for £400. I bought a trolley full of groceries in Coop for CHF 400. As far as I can tell the trollies are the same size.

I haven't noticed a difference in quality.

Feel free to go ahead and just call me a liar, though.
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  #84  
Old 28.04.2014, 17:20
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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£400 in Tesco will feed me for 6 months in the UK, .
You must either eat some really cr*p stuff or have the appetite of a mouse if you can live for 6 months on £400 worth of stuff from Tescos.

I agree with Lucy_who and Richdog that for a lot of stuff the prices are pretty comparable between here and the UK with a few notable exceptions ( meat, toiletries and gleaning stuff).
In my opinion the UK is not as cheap as everyone makes it out to be really. There are some bargains to be had certainly but that's the case for a lot of countries (Switzerland included) if you know where to look.
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  #85  
Old 28.04.2014, 17:21
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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Switzerlanded (almost):

Cost of replacing a clutch on a car with around 200,000KMs on it.

Swiss, independant garage (therefore non-genuine parts):

1200CHF. Not including labour. Around 1600CHF including Labour.

UK Subaru Garage (Genuine parts, fully model-specific trained mechanic)

£150. £250 including labour.

I told him i would be driving to the UK and still saving myself a small fortune. He knocked the price down to 1500CHF.
I hear you, I did cambelts in the UK last Christmas. The difference in price was enough to pay for an overnight ferry and a couple of nights in a hotel with change to spend on beer.

This summer, I will get my front suspension replaced, gearbox flushed and more for less than half the price. Just mixing it in with a trip to the UK works very well....!!

But bless my garage guy this time last year who told me that the next service would be at least 2k. He awoke something in me

On the other hand, I had my car chip-tuned many years ago and a new exhaust put onto it. 12 francs more per annum to insure
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Old 28.04.2014, 17:22
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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Median cashier salary at Tesco: GBP 6.90 per hour
Entry level cashier salary at Migros: around CHF 22.90 per hour (based on 13 months @ CHF 3800, 5 weeks paid holiday per year)

It's more than double!
That's neither here nor there and I don't dispute that. What I do dispute is people saying that groceries are about the same price as the UK when it clearly isn't the case.

Things are significantly more expensive in Switzerland than they are in the UK. But there seems to be a legion of people on EF who seem to want to make out that that isn't the case. It is the case but salaries as better for some occupations. Let's not forget that for anything above middle management type positions the salaries in the UK are going to be just as good if not better.

Or occupations such as doctors. I'd MUCH rather be a doctor in the UK than Switzerland. I have a BIL and sister doctor and they absolutely RAKE it in and still pay less than half for their milk.

I'm sure Odile will be along with some anecdote about horrible night shifts 50 years ago. But this is now.
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  #87  
Old 28.04.2014, 17:23
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

I noticed the last time we went shopping in the US for goods of a similar quality at Coop/Migros we paid quite a bit more than we remembered as well, close to "Swiss" prices.
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  #88  
Old 28.04.2014, 17:52
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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It is the case but salaries as better for some occupations. Let's not forget that for anything above middle management type positions the salaries in the UK are going to be just as good if not better.

Or occupations such as doctors. I'd MUCH rather be a doctor in the UK than Switzerland. I have a BIL and sister doctor and they absolutely RAKE it in and still pay less than half for their milk.
And this is why you can't have nice things in some areas of the UK - the divide between the haves and the have nots is so much more marked. My uncle had to stop owning a convertible because he had to replace the roof three times in the same year; it kept getting slashed by random yobs, despite him being careful about where he parked it. Here, you will find Aston Martins with the roof down parked in the street. I'm sure the owner isn't far away and that you see the same in the centre of London but it's not unusual to see the same scene outside of the centre here. Apart from a few exceptions, the instinct here does not seem to be "that person has something I don't have, let's break/steal it", unlike in the North East of England, where you sometimes find your tires have gone over night.

I definitely agree that in terms of choice and options for pricing, the UK with its 60 million potential customers beats Switzerland. However, I prefer a system where lower earners can still manage and higher earners probably don't notice much difference. Milk is CHF 1.15 at Aldi by the way, but I dislike bargain basement pricing for animal products - if the customer isn't paying, the animal usually is. I think it is great that Switzerland does not permit battery farming for hens and I wish they would also not allow the import of such eggs.
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Old 28.04.2014, 17:58
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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Sorry but that's absolutely not true at all, the gulf in prices between a UK supermarket and a UK ethnic shop is nowhere near like it is here!

UK supermarkets are like Tesco and Asda are so dirt cheap that ethnic shops can barely compete, and at best are usually similarly priced. The fact you don't know that suggests a lack of familiarity with the UK market, because in the UK I was well used to shopping at both on a very regular basis.
Perhaps you shouldnt jump to conclusions about my knowledge about the UK market. Perhaps one should enquire as to what i am basing my statement on.

First off, i live in the North of England, in a high-diversity area. Its a built up area though, so lots of Tescos, Sinsbury's, morrisons, waitrose et al.

There is also lots of smaller, ethnic neghbourhood shops (some which include butchers) which sell the same stuff. For example (and this is what i bought back with me, so i know the price):

Mcvities milk chocolate digestives - 60p/pack
Encona Chilli sauce - 70p/bottle
Heinz Ketchup - £1.30 for 1Kg bottle (the biggest, non-catering bottle)
Rubicon Mango juice (much better that the scheiss Migros has) - 90p (1l).
Twinings Earl Grey tea bags (100) - £2
White rice (Pride) - £7 for 5Kg
Spices (a range of, but all the same price) - 70p/100g (i bought 5 packs back)
Heinz Baked Beans (Fridge pack) : £1.50 (1Kg plastic pack).

I could go on, but if you dont see the difference, you never will.
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  #90  
Old 28.04.2014, 18:00
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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That's neither here nor there and I don't dispute that. What I do dispute is people saying that groceries are about the same price as the UK when it clearly isn't the case.

Things are significantly more expensive in Switzerland than they are in the UK. But there seems to be a legion of people on EF who seem to want to make out that that isn't the case. It is the case but salaries as better for some occupations. Let's not forget that for anything above middle management type positions the salaries in the UK are going to be just as good if not better.
No-one is saying "everything" grocery-related is the same price, it's obviously not, but it's certainly not so bad overall as some people try to make out.

As for such vague and wishy washy general statements like: "Things are significantly more expensive in Switzerland than they are in the UK", lets not forget that Switzerland is also the cheapest place in Europe for many consumer electronics and computing items.

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Perhaps you shouldnt jump to conclusions about my knowledge about the UK market. Perhaps one should enquire as to what i am basing my statement on.

First off, i live in the North of England, in a high-diversity area. Its a built up area though, so lots of Tescos, Sinsbury's, morrisons, waitrose et al.

There is also lots of smaller, ethnic neghbourhood shops (some which include butchers) which sell the same stuff. For example (and this is what i bought back with me, so i know the price):

Mcvities milk chocolate digestives - 60p/pack
Encona Chilli sauce - 70p/bottle
Heinz Ketchup - £1.30 for 1Kg bottle (the biggest, non-catering bottle)
Rubicon Mango juice (much better that the scheiss Migros has) - 90p (1l).
Twinings Earl Grey tea bags (100) - £2
White rice (Pride) - £7 for 5Kg
Spices (a range of, but all the same price) - 70p/100g (i bought 5 packs back)
Heinz Baked Beans (Fridge pack) : £1.50 (1Kg plastic pack).

I could go on, but if you dont see the difference, you never will.
The price difference for everyday items between Asda, which is already pushing the bottom line through sheer volume, and ethnic shops, is nowhere as big a gap as the difference here between Co-Op and an ethnic shop. That was the point.
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  #91  
Old 28.04.2014, 18:00
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

Any mechanical job that takes time will cost a lot more over here.

10 hours of labour in a good independent in the UK will cost £650-700 - and tax and compare and it is around 25% more over here.

Consider the base wage of the mechanic here being higher; the customers likely higher take home % and higher base wage - the relative cost becomes far less.

This has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum - it has been EFed
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Old 28.04.2014, 18:02
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

Now I'm happy to pay prices that at the beginning seemed to me ridicoulous, such as train ticket, meat (chicken meat 33chf/kg or more...), fish...I understand now that in switzerland some of these prices have a reason. Public Transports are perfect in the city i live; if I look around farms and animals are managed in a way that is rare (for ex: in germany the agricoltural and livestock politic bring price very low, but animals and workers conditions are not fair at all. So i prefer spend more buying swiss meat instead of german one) ; food is fresh,tasty and healthy; taxes are reasonable considering services and safety of cities, workers are almost always paid the right salary. As far as other services like hair dresser and restaurant, language schools, nursery for children, books, cinemas, theater, concerts and so on, or just a coffee I still consider them ridicoulous in price, and as far as I'm concerned I decided to consider them like a luxury I don't want even if sometimes i can afford. But I thing in some case and in some ways those prices are all related to workers conditions and general cost of life.
Sorry for my poor english.
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Old 28.04.2014, 18:05
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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You must either eat some really cr*p stuff or have the appetite of a mouse if you can live for 6 months on £400 worth of stuff from Tescos.

I agree with Lucy_who and Richdog that for a lot of stuff the prices are pretty comparable between here and the UK with a few notable exceptions ( meat, toiletries and gleaning stuff).
In my opinion the UK is not as cheap as everyone makes it out to be really. There are some bargains to be had certainly but that's the case for a lot of countries (Switzerland included) if you know where to look.
hmm...well, if those are the only two options, im screwed.

I'm a single male who travels (and travelled, in the UK) a lot. 1-3 weeks out of the month spent abroad, living off the company card (same situation here, btw). Im actually quite tubby too, so no way is my appetite simlar to that of a mouse (who has ever measured the appetite of a mouse anyway?). Being a foodie, i like to think i dont eat, as you say cr*p stuff.

In my opinion, people choose not to see the difference, or make unrealistic comparisons (eg, Migros/waitrose, branded/unbranded) until they find a way costs are roughly equal, and convince themselves things cost the same in the UK.
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Old 28.04.2014, 18:08
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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The price difference for everyday items between Asda, which is already pushing the bottom line through sheer volume, and ethnic shops, is nowhere as big a gap as the difference here between Co-Op and an ethnic shop. That was the point.
Perhaps, but saying the prices in the UK are more or less the same is erroneous to the extreme.

Also, it is worth considering that Asda's market share is lower, and the increased competition means there is more necessity to have lower prices. Here, there are two big chains and a bunch of stragglers. The two big chains are (imo) acting almost like a cartel.
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Old 28.04.2014, 18:11
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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Any mechanical job that takes time will cost a lot more over here.

10 hours of labour in a good independent in the UK will cost £650-700 - and tax and compare and it is around 25% more over here.

Consider the base wage of the mechanic here being higher; the customers likely higher take home % and higher base wage - the relative cost becomes far less.

This has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum - it has been EFed

Doesnt explain why the parts cost 3 times as much though.

Also, for a professional garage, a clutch shouldnt take 10 hours. More like 3 (and that one guy on his own).
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Old 28.04.2014, 18:24
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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call me old fashioned but id rather have 100 mars bars than a 16yo hooker in zurich.

i can resell the mars bars for a profit.
Criminal organizations sells the 16 years old for profits too, you know?
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Old 28.04.2014, 18:31
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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In my opinion, people choose not to see the difference, or make unrealistic comparisons (eg, Migros/waitrose, branded/unbranded) until they find a way costs are roughly equal, and convince themselves things cost the same in the UK.
Yes of course, I'm sure it's much easier for you to convince yourself that other people are deluding themselves.

However, on that theme your suggestion then of spending £400 for 6 months if you were actually "a foodie" would seems way under. £66 a month, or £16 a week, or £2.30 a day lets you "eat well" in the UK... as 'a foodie'? I think I even spent a fair bit more than that as a scrimping student...

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Perhaps, but saying the prices in the UK are more or less the same is erroneous to the extreme.
I don't actually think anyone said that prices in the UK are generally the same as here, and yet you seem to be repeating this. Some things are of course more expensive, farmed products a prime example, it's a completely different economy. However, not everything is so comparably bad as people like to try and make out, and you can do some reasonably priced shopping here.

Next week while shopping I'll get some specific examples from different culinary and toiletry areas and post back here comparing them to Mysupermarket.co.uk http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/

The results may be more interesting than you think.
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Old 28.04.2014, 18:32
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

In my case, the (first) negative occasion I was "Switzerlanded" involved my landlady. We'd only been living in the apartment for a short time, so no opportunity for anything to be in any particular state other than "fresh moved in". Alas, it didn't take long for her to find something I didn't do according to Swiss standards of cleaning, as she took the stopper out of my bathroom sink and held it up to see that I'd not scrubbed down into the drain or scrubbed the stopper in it's entirety.


On the other hand, the positive one(s) were in the hospital. I was very well taken care of, despite having "only" basic insurance, on both occasions where I had need overnight stays. Quite different from experiences I remember friends describing at hospitals back home.
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Old 28.04.2014, 18:35
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

I have experience with Tesco / Sainsbury's several years ago and limited experience with supermarkets here - because I go to Germany instead.

In my experience groceries - and that would be comparing like for like - are much more expensive here. I don't have rigorous studies to show for it, so if you have done the effort and can prove my opinion wrong, I am interested!

Part of it may be to the (relatively) recent exchange rate quibbles between the Euro/CHF, so maybe converting UK prices and Swiss prices to Euro now will reveal both are overpriced. It is clear to me though that I can get similar stuff (at least, for my not so discerning taste) in Germany at considerably cheaper prices, even if I didn't get the VAT back.

I won't be offended if anyone points out I must be eating cheap stuff (it is not crappy as far as I'm concerned, and I try to keep it healthy).
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Old 28.04.2014, 18:40
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Re: You've been Switzerlanded - what does it mean for you?

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Doesnt explain why the parts cost 3 times as much though.

Also, for a professional garage, a clutch shouldnt take 10 hours. More like 3 (and that one guy on his own).
Order your own parts!! There are a number of Swiss sites from which you can order - not at UK prices - but a lot cheaper. I supplied brake discs to a main dealer to save myself hundreds.

Sachs clutch kit for a 2002 Subaru Impreza 2.0
UK: £136.79 - lets say 200chf
CH: 314.77chf
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