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Old 21.01.2015, 17:45
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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"Organic" food is no more nutritious or "safe" than conventional food, but is a hell of a lot more expensive. It's one of the world's biggest cons.

Yeah, but that smug feeling of self satisfaction and righteousness is priceless!
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Old 21.01.2015, 17:50
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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"Organic" food is no more nutritious or "safe" than conventional food, but is a hell of a lot more expensive. It's one of the world's biggest cons.
"Organic" food is the genuine "conventional" food.

Monsanto and Co are the ones trying to cartelize the market and deny people choice.

If their stuff was so much better, why would they so vehemently object to having to label it?

Let's not get that the wrong way round.
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Old 22.01.2015, 09:42
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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"Organic" food is the genuine "conventional" food.

Monsanto and Co are the ones trying to cartelize the market and deny people choice.

If their stuff was so much better, why would they so vehemently object to having to label it?

Let's not get that the wrong way round.
Ok, here we go. What exactly would you label? The gene? The construct? Which promoter was used? Why label something which is proven to be just as safe as non-GMO? Just so you can avoid it?
Monsanto has just about the same annual turnover as Whole Foods Markets (12 - 14 billion, I believe); are Big Organic scared of GMO?
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Old 22.01.2015, 10:33
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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Ok, here we go. What exactly would you label? The gene? The construct? Which promoter was used? Why label something which is proven to be just as safe as non-GMO? Just so you can avoid it?
It's called giving people choice. This is a concept that cartels don't like. If you believe something is better, you are proud to label it. If you know it is inferior, you hope people don't notice. By opposing labelling, Monsanto & Co have clearly shown that they don't even believe in their own propaganda.

If Monsanto honestly believed in what they did, they would be proud to label "uses a Monsanto patented gene" all over ever one of their products.
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Old 22.01.2015, 10:47
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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It's called giving people choice. This is a concept that cartels don't like. If you believe something is better, you are proud to label it. If you know it is inferior, you hope people don't notice. By opposing labelling, Monsanto & Co have clearly shown that they don't even believe in their own propaganda.

If Monsanto honestly believed in what they did, they would be proud to label "uses a Monsanto patented gene" all over ever one of their products.
But they're not superior, they're just the same. They are merely engineered to resist a specific herbicide, using a gene transferred from another species.

Wikipedia reference-linkGenetically_modified_crops
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Old 22.01.2015, 11:04
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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sez you.
Says everyone who is a scientist and not selling vitamin supplements
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Old 22.01.2015, 11:05
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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Ok, here we go. What exactly would you label?
Apparently in the US people want to label all food containing DNA
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Old 22.01.2015, 11:10
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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But they're not superior, they're just the same. They are merely engineered to resist a specific herbicide, using a gene transferred from another species.

Wikipedia reference-linkGenetically_modified_crops
And if they're "just the same", then surely that label won't do any harm. So why the refusal to be identified with their own product?

Almost every company in the world labels their products. Even ultra-cheapo Chinese companies do. It's a question of pride and of building a reputation. It is interesting, is it not, that a company that claims to be doing so much good for humanity is too ashamed to identify with its own products.
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Old 22.01.2015, 11:17
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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And if they're "just the same", then surely that label won't do any harm. So why the refusal to be identified with their own product?

Almost every company in the world labels their products. Even ultra-cheapo Chinese companies do. It's a question of pride and of building a reputation. It is interesting, is it not, that a company that claims to be doing so much good for humanity is too ashamed to identify with its own products.
The idea that labels won't do any harm is mistaken, in the US for instance there were votings on whether to label GMO based foods and the petitions were declined.
Anti-GMOists say they want to label GMO based food, if the food had been labeled then they would probably say 'if they are good for you why are they labeled?'...it would just be a vicious cycle.
Also, most lay people think that organic foods do not contain pesticides, but they do. Organic farmers use 'non-synthetic' pesticides (like rotenone) instead of synthetic, and in bigger quantities than GMOs crops use synthetic pesticides (From EPA:"Organically grown" food is food grown and processed using no synthetic fertilizers or pesticides. Pesticides derived from natural sources (such as biological pesticides) may be used in producing organically grown food).

I personally do not care whether they label GMOs or not, because I understand the science behind them, unfortunately not all people do.
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Old 22.01.2015, 11:28
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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And if they're "just the same", then surely that label won't do any harm. So why the refusal to be identified with their own product?

Almost every company in the world labels their products. Even ultra-cheapo Chinese companies do. It's a question of pride and of building a reputation. It is interesting, is it not, that a company that claims to be doing so much good for humanity is too ashamed to identify with its own products.
But Monsanto, Syngenta etc don't make food; they developed the technology and supply the seeds. Do ultra-cheapo Chinese companies list their raw ingredients suppliers?
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Old 22.01.2015, 11:34
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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But Monsanto, Syngenta etc don't make food; they developed the technology and supply the seeds. Do ultra-cheapo Chinese companies list their raw ingredients suppliers?
also important, Montanto makes 14 billion in profits while wholefoods made 12 billion in profits...who is the evil giant again?
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Old 22.01.2015, 11:37
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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But they're not superior, they're just the same. They are merely engineered to resist a specific herbicide, using a gene transferred from another species.
You're really not giving the whole picture, are you?

They are engineered to resist a specific herbicide as you stated but so that herbicide (which may be hazardous to health) can be used more liberally on those GM crops.

This won't happen with organic crops.

As you say, it's not the fact that the crops are GM which is dangerous but what it allows industrial farmers to do with them which can be.

I'm not a proponent of organic food but I certainly wouldn't see Monsanto as the knight in shining armour in all this.
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Old 22.01.2015, 11:44
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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You're really not giving the whole picture, are you?

They are engineered to resist a specific herbicide as you stated but so that herbicide (which may be hazardous to health) can be used more liberally on those GM crops.

This won't happen with organic crops.

As you say, it's not the fact that the crops are GM which is dangerous but what it allows industrial farmers to do with them which can be.

I'm not a proponent of organic food but I certainly wouldn't see Monsanto as the knight in shining armour in all this.
The herbicide they use, glysophate (or RoundUp), has been shown in numerous studies to be safe at the levels normally expected in the food we consume. It actually has a lower toxicity level than clove oil, a common "natural" pesticide used by organic farmers.
I'm also not saying that Monsanto are knights in shining armour, but neither are they the devil everyone makes them out to be.
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Old 22.01.2015, 11:50
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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You're really not giving the whole picture, are you?

They are engineered to resist a specific herbicide as you stated but so that herbicide (which may be hazardous to health) can be used more liberally on those GM crops.
au contraire my dear Tom, GMO crops are usually sprayed with glyphosate only once, so the farmer spends LESS in pesticides.
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Old 22.01.2015, 11:58
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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The herbicide they use, glysophate (or RoundUp), has been shown in numerous studies to be safe at the levels normally expected in the food we consume. It actually has a lower toxicity level than clove oil, a common "natural" pesticide used by organic farmers.
I'm also not saying that Monsanto are knights in shining armour, but neither are they the devil everyone makes them out to be.
True.

Although weeds are becoming resistant to it though at current levels of use so they'll either need to use it in more powerful doses or develop something else.

Monsanto may not actually sell the 'Terminator seeds' that people think they do but don't they collect royalties on the seeds that they 'force' on third world farmers?
Their tactics in this field are dubious at best and down-right evil at worst.
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Old 22.01.2015, 12:01
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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But Monsanto, Syngenta etc don't make food; they developed the technology and supply the seeds. Do ultra-cheapo Chinese companies list their raw ingredients suppliers?
remember the "Intel Inside" label?
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Old 22.01.2015, 12:02
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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au contraire my dear Tom, GMO crops are usually sprayed with glyphosate only once, so the farmer spends LESS in pesticides.
Rather than what?
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Old 22.01.2015, 12:04
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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also important, Montanto makes 14 billion in profits while wholefoods made 12 billion in profits...who is the evil giant again?
Let's wait for the day that organic farmers start refusing to have the organic label stuck on their food, and have this conversation again.

Why are people afraid of giving information to consumers?

This is the crux of the argument.
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Old 22.01.2015, 12:06
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

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Rather than what?
rather than rotenone or other multiple times
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Old 22.01.2015, 12:06
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Re: Organic/Bio foods

Why is whole foods making the profit and not the farmers?

Anyone got any real figures?
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