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  #41  
Old 01.10.2014, 23:25
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

Well as said, if you want Swiss Health Insurance to reimburse you- you have to buy in Switzerland. Which does not mean you can't buy paracetamol and other non prescrip minor meds elsewhere, like at the small rural chemist in next village on other side of the border- or when in UK when you happen to be there.

I'll happily buy paracetamol for all the little orphans in the village, and distribute for free
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Old 01.10.2014, 23:28
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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I am not questioning the prices of the meds but the extra costs the chemist charges me to do his job.
I wish there were more people like you in Europe.
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  #43  
Old 01.10.2014, 23:29
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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I wish there were more people like you in Europe.
Questioning?

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  #44  
Old 01.10.2014, 23:31
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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But what's rubbish is the NHS. Especially when you pay £7 for unlimited pharmaceuticals. Unless you're young. Or poor. Or old. Or a student.

Yes. But since we'd be none of those, we'd pay a crapload of taxes to use the NHS. So it would be rubbish.
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  #45  
Old 01.10.2014, 23:33
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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Well as said, if you want Swiss Health Insurance to reimburse you- you have to buy in Switzerland. Which does not mean you can't buy paracetamol and other non prescrip minor meds elsewhere, like at the small rural chemist in next village on other side of the border- or when in UK when you happen to be there.

I'll happily buy paracetamol for all the little orphans in the village, and distribute for free


Isn't it dangerous to hand out paracetamol to children, orphans or otherwise?
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  #46  
Old 01.10.2014, 23:39
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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Questioning?

I must be too tired

What I mean is that if more Europeans and especially in Switzerland were like you, perhaps the prices wouldn't have gone over the roof (e.g. rents, health insurances, food...).

Only for the Swiss residents, the prices in France and Germany are cheap. When you compare them (D & F) with the U.S. or Canada, prices are still ~30 - 40% more expensive.
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  #47  
Old 01.10.2014, 23:41
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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Sure it does: if you live near enough to the border, "local" and "abroad" aren't mutually exclusive.

Does a small-town pharmacist this side of the border have a stronger claim on my economic sympathies than his equally small-town, equally struggling counterpart 5 minutes further away in the next town over the German border? If so, on what possible basis?

On every possible basis. When people say local they're never referring to simple distance but rather to their community whether it's a village, canton or country or whatever. An international border however close, stops things being local. They're out of your welfare and tax system, your legal system, maybe they speak a different language. As far as ethics of companies going bust, I'd hazards that transcends geography altogether - I care exactly as much if a Mexican child starves as if a German child starve.
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  #48  
Old 01.10.2014, 23:42
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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Isn't it dangerous to hand out paracetamol to children, orphans or otherwise?
Not if you say they're sweets. That's what I do and I've never seen one die yet.
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  #49  
Old 02.10.2014, 09:58
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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Not if you say they're sweets. That's what I do and I've never seen one die yet.

Nice.
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  #50  
Old 02.10.2014, 11:37
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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On every possible basis. When people say local they're never referring to simple distance but rather to their community whether it's a village, canton or country or whatever. An international border however close, stops things being local. They're out of your welfare and tax system, your legal system, maybe they speak a different language.
LOL you do not quite understand what 'local' means here where I live - 1 village and community with the same roots, language, history and culture- split at some point in time by war and division. Great that we continue to share our lives despite the border, and the very slightly different local accent- many clubs and activities run together and commonly shared, again, despite that silly line marked on the road. Go walking, cycling, skiing here, and most of the time you just won't know if you are in France or Switzerland, and both sides are very much local.

I won't be killing anyone with free paracetamol though- as I'm happy to say there are no orphans in the village currently- although there was a big orphanage close by in the 19C.
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  #51  
Old 02.10.2014, 11:49
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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Do you also know that you pay for letters written by your doctor? I believe that you might also pay for telephone calls. Of course, your insurance reimburses you for that. It makes sense too, i think.

I don't know that this or the prescription tax is taking anyone for a ride. This is Switzerland, and in Switzerland you pay for services. So, with all due respect, i don't think it's such a big deal. And I have quite a few prescriptions. The pharmacy service here is much better than the US, far more efficient, but that's all i can compare it to. Meds are about the same, or a little less than in the US.

If you get your meds from your doctor, you don't pay the tax, as far as i know.

In Migros I don't pay a service charge, the chemist makes a mark up probably in the region of 100%

In the UK superdrug charges less than 50% of boots as private prescriptions are done at cost.
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  #52  
Old 02.10.2014, 12:09
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

Does the pharmacy set the price? I thought prices were set on a national level.

Well, my meds cost about the same from the physician and the pharmacy, except for the service charge of 4 francs or so. Actually, I have to look at the receipt next time I get one. I'm not really being frivolous, or maybe I am. But I guess I'm like the old person in the small village. For me to save 40rpp on a prescription (10% of the approx surcharge), is it worth it for me to go elsewhere. At this point no, but maybe at some point yes.

My insurer (visana) is pushing pharmacy by mail - not sure what the savings are.
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  #53  
Old 02.10.2014, 12:22
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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What confuses me is the notion of people worrying about small shops disappearing, then swanning off to do their shopping elsewhere. If it's that big a deal, surely one should put one's money where one's mouth is?
Actually, I do.

Most of my shopping is done at small, local shops.

I support my local mechanic as well (for stuff I don't want to do myself), and he in turn will do small stuff for me for free.

It is pretty bizarre to add the surcharge to a repeat prescription, however.

Tom
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  #54  
Old 02.10.2014, 12:26
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

Since I've been known to grumble about health care in canton SZ, it's only right that I praise the good stuff - and being a self-dispensing canton is one of those things.

I get meds directly from the doctor, avoiding the extra charges. Last time, though, he was out of the drug and so I had to get an Rx filled at the pharmacy. And got hit with the Mediakamententaxe, 4.30, plus Bezugstaxe 3.25. Sure, it was 'only' an extra 7.55 - but that's an almost 50% addition to the bill. If one has multiple meds that could quickly add up.

Given that the local-ish pharmacy is a national chain I have little interest in keeping them in business. I don't know of any small independent 'trusted service provider' type pharmacies 'round these parts. You take a number, hand over your Rx when called, the clerk hands you your meds. Not a word spoken until she tells you how much you have to pay.

I'm happy that I can get meds from the doctor and save the half hour it takes to drive to the pharmacy. And I'm happy to save the 7.55.
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  #55  
Old 02.10.2014, 13:04
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

Ok, so who sets these charges? Individual companies? A cartel of pharmacies?

To avoid them, it seems Sunstore and meds from your doc, maybe meds by mail. Any other ways?
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  #56  
Old 02.10.2014, 13:11
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

https://www.ktipp.ch/service/gut-bed...warnliste_id=4

http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&...QqdA1IR59YY4sQ

http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&...zJZFZ32C1gYcgw
__________________________________________________ ______________

Many pharmacies will waive the extra charges on every item, provided the customer pays with cash or with a banker's card.

However Sun Store will not charge anything extra. They will charge the prescribed medicines to your health insurance, who then bill you. Further, they store the prescription from your doctor as a .PDF, and this can be seen in any Sun Store. (I picked up my prescription medicine at Geneva airport even though I usually go to Avenches or Bern)
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  #57  
Old 02.10.2014, 15:17
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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It's normal in Switzerland. Part of the charter to ensure that small independent chemists, including rural areas, manage to stay opened. We can argue about the pros and cons till we go blue in the face- but that's the way it is done here.
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Il est nécessaire de réaliser des économies si l'on veut que notre système suisse de santé continue à exister à moyen et à long terme. C'est dans ce but que, depuis le 1er juillet 2001, dans un souci de transparence et pour diminuer les coûts des médicaments à charge des caisses-maladie, le travail de votre pharmacien et de ses collaboratrices est rémunéré de deux façons. Pour les médicaments soumis à l'ordonnance médicale et pris en charge par l'assurance de base, les prestations du pharmacien sont rémunérées par les positions tarifaires "Validation médicaments" et "Validation traitements". Ce système a été développé par les pharmaciens et les caisses-maladie en collaboration avec l'Office fédéral des assurances sociales. Pour tous les autres produits en vente sur ordonnance, mais non pris en charge par l'assurance de base et les produits en vente libre (par ex. gouttes nasales, produits cosmétiques, etc.), la marge, comme pour toute activité commerciale, rémunère le pharmacien.
La "Validation médicaments", montant moyen forfaitaire de 4.30 (TTC), couvre un ensemble de prestations qui accompagne toute délivrance de médicament, en particulier :
  • la vérification de l'ordonnance
  • la vérification du bien-fondé du renouvellement d'une ordonnance
  • la vérification du dosage d'utilisation et des limitations éventuelles
  • le contrôle des interactions de l'ordonnance
  • le contrôle des facteurs de risque et des contre-indications (par ex. allergie au médicament)
  • la prise de contact avec le médecin prescripteur, si cela est médicalement nécessaire ou souhaité par le patient
  • la modification de la prescription dans les cas urgents.
  • le choix de la taille d'emballage économiquement optimale en fonction des posologies prescrites
et bien sûr, les conseils au patient comme :
  • vérifier s'il connaît le dosage, la durée de la thérapie, le moment optimal de prise
  • donner l'indication écrite des dosages prescrits
  • instruire le patient sur la façon d'utiliser correctement le médicament
  • motiver le patient à bien suivre son traitement
  • informer le patient sur les prescriptions d'utilisation et de conservation
  • informer le patient sur les effets secondaires possibles ou potentiels
La position tarifaire "Validation traitements" de 3.25 (TTC) par médecin prescripteur est facturée une fois par jour (pour autant que les médicaments soient soumis à ordonnance). Elle couvre de manière forfaitaire, indépendamment de la quantité de médicaments achetés :
  • l'établissement du dossier-patient personnel et sa gestion avec l'assurance
  • l'historique des médicaments prescrits
  • le contrôle des interactions sur la base du dossier pharmaceutique (important en cas de plusieurs médecins prescripteurs)
Les prestations du pharmacien ne sont pas incluses dans le prix affiché sur les médicaments prescrits sur ordonnance et à charge de l'assurance-maladie. Elles sont indiquées et facturées séparément et remboursées par l'assurance de base.


Sorry guys, in French which is fine for NIL
So how exactly does this system work then?
Surely the pharmacies in densely populated areas with more customers will get a lot more money than the smaller rural pharmacies with far fewer customers and prescriptions.
And what about the rural pharmacies in cantons where the doctor dispenses the medicines, the pharmacies there won't see many prescriptions at all and will rarely be making these charges.

Or do the charges have to be paid into a central fund and then redistributed so that the smaller independant pharmacies get a bigger share than the bigger ones?
I can't see how it helps smaller maintain the smaller pharmacies otherwise.

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Many pharmacies will waive the extra charges on every item, provided the customer pays with cash or with a banker's card.
I have only ever had to pay the extra charge at one pharmacy in Neuchâtel, none of the others have ever levied these extra charges.

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However Sun Store will not charge anything extra. They will charge the prescribed medicines to your health insurance, who then bill you. Further, they store the prescription from your doctor as a .PDF, and this can be seen in any Sun Store. (I picked up my prescription medicine at Geneva airport even though I usually go to Avenches or Bern)
Quite correct that Sun Store will never charge extra irrespective of the insurer but whether you have to pay up front or they bill the insurer directly depends on who your insurer is. Some require you to pay and claim back later even at Sun Store.

You do have to fill out a form beforehand at Sun Store if you want to collect your prescription from a branch other than the one where you took the original prescription but once you've done it then it's valid for everything thereafter. ( at least that's how it worked for us)

Last edited by Belgianmum; 02.10.2014 at 15:34. Reason: Merging succesive posts
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  #58  
Old 02.10.2014, 16:00
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

Lots of interesting questions there. I've often wondered how Sun Store (very large chain) getw away with not applying a Charter agreed with the 'Association of pharmacists' etc. I will make enquiries- I imagine the said assoc is not too happy about it, but can't enforce it. And as said, I don't know of any Sunstore chain in rural areas. Doctors only self-dispense is there is not chemist's in the area- according to my GP (who does not, for that very reason).

Anyhow, in a country where people are not registered with a single GP, who keeps all records about treatment and drugs dispensed by other doctors, like specialists- for the same person, the safety of knowing that the chemist's you register with, usually your local one- will keep a tab on your dossier- and ensure that your GP (family doctor), gyneacologist, peaditatrician for children, and all other specilaists who may see separately- do not prescribe drugs which could dangerously interact with each other, and that dosages are correct (yep, GPs and all doctors can make mistakes, and the prescription copied by his receptionist could have a , or . in the wrong place, etc. And for that- I am very grateful- it adds another security check, which can truly save lives.

Just come back from a lovely local walk abroad with the dogs - same sunshine and lovely woods turning gold and russet . Should I be racked with guilt and labelled hypocrite because I bought potatoes from my friend French farmer and collected a La Redoute parcel from my French friend whose fence is the Border (nope)

Last edited by Odile; 02.10.2014 at 16:20.
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Old 02.10.2014, 16:00
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

I have Assura and I had no idea of that benefit.. thanks for the tip!
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Old 02.10.2014, 16:10
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Re: Pharmacy extra billing.

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I've often wondered how Sun Store (very large chain) getw away with not applying a Charter agreed with the 'Association of pharmacists' etc.
http://sunstore.ch/fr/info-and-servi...STORE_informe/

Just found this today, Sunstore is going to start charging the extra charges in Jan 2015, but will bill the charges to the insurance company. Which I imagine means those of us with a high franchise will be paying them...
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