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Old 20.10.2014, 14:51
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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Vyacheslav Grishin of the Chernobyl Union, the main organization of liquidators. He said about 600,000 liquidators sent from Ukraine, Russia and Belarus, "25,000 died and 70,000 remained disabled in Russia, Ukraine, the numbers are close and Belarus 10,000 died and 25,000 disabled" .
Why do you believe that figure over the other figures quoted in the same article? Is it because it supports your pre-conceived position?
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  #62  
Old 20.10.2014, 15:21
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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Why do you believe that figure over the other figures quoted in the same article? Is it because it supports your pre-conceived position?
The figures have different meanings. It's quite clear (to me).

The low figures are for deaths directly from exposure to radiation or radiation poisoning as it is known.

The high figures are probably those deaths caused by medical conditions as a result of exposure to radiation - such as cancers.
There's no way that these can actually be attributed to the radiation even if in all probability, they were caused by it.

The WHO and UN don't generally publish reports based on speculation so don't include any of those deaths apart from the radiation poisoning ones.
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  #63  
Old 20.10.2014, 17:54
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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The figures have different meanings. It's quite clear (to me).

The low figures are for deaths directly from exposure to radiation or radiation poisoning as it is known.

The high figures are probably those deaths caused by medical conditions as a result of exposure to radiation - such as cancers.
There's no way that these can actually be attributed to the radiation even if in all probability, they were caused by it.

The WHO and UN don't generally publish reports based on speculation so don't include any of those deaths apart from the radiation poisoning ones.
About "The high figures are probably those deaths caused by medical conditions as a result of exposure to radiation - such as cancers."

No, I quote again "Rahu et al. (2006) [10] studied some 10,000 liquidators from Latvia and Estonia and found no significant increase in overall cancer rate"

About "He said about 600,000 liquidators sent from Ukraine, Russia and Belarus, "25,000 died and 70,000 remained disabled in Russia, Ukraine, the numbers are close and Belarus 10,000 died"

Chernobyl was some 30 years ago; not surprising that 5% have died?
The average annual death rate in Russia is 15/1,000 so in crude terms you would expect around 45% (27,000) to have died until now, say 1,000 per year?
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  #64  
Old 20.10.2014, 17:59
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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...
The WHO and UN don't generally publish reports based on speculation...
That's right. Because figures based on speculation have to large a margin of error to have any meaning - unless they contain detailed explanations of assumptions.

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...The average annual death rate in Russia is 15/1,000 so in crude terms you would expect around 45% (27,000) to have died until now, say 1,000 per year?
Precisely.
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  #65  
Old 20.10.2014, 18:52
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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Why do you believe that figure over the other figures quoted in the same article? Is it because it supports your pre-conceived position?
No it's not pre-conceived. I honestly don't think we'll ever know 100% the truth and it was intended to be that way. it's easy to forget about after effects and think about just the people who died as a direct consquence of the incident.

Do you count secondary deaths or not?

In 1987 - the year following the reactor accident - there was an increase in the number of stillbirths and perinatal deaths in the Ukrainian and Belarussian areas around Chernobyl. Alfred Körblein comes to the conclusion that this is connected to caesium exposure. There has been a second increase in perinatal mortality in Belarus and in Ukraine since 1989. In the case of this second increase, a link to exposure to strontium of pregnant women has been established. In Ukraine, the "strontium effect" is more dominant than the "caesium effect". It has become clear from the difference between the expected and the actual rate of perinatal mortality that in three Ukrainian regions - Zhytomyr, rural Kiev and Kiev city - alone, 151 children died in 1987 mainly due to the caesium effect, whereas between 1988 and 1991 712 children died as a result of the strontium effect. This means that following Chernobyl there was a total of 863 perinatal deaths in the area as a result of caesium and strontium exposure.

Source :-

http://www.ippnw.org/pdf/chernobyl-h...11-english.pdf
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Old 20.10.2014, 20:05
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

I think the thread title is misleading.

It should not state "have you taken your Iodine tablets" - rather "Have you received your Iodine tablets".

They are not for taking NOW. They are for having in case of an emergency, when public will be informed about taking them.
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  #67  
Old 20.10.2014, 21:17
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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No it's not pre-conceived. I honestly don't think we'll ever know 100% the truth and it was intended to be that way. it's easy to forget about after effects and think about just the people who died as a direct consquence of the incident.

Do you count secondary deaths or not?

In 1987 - the year following the reactor accident - there was an increase in the number of stillbirths and perinatal deaths in the Ukrainian and Belarussian areas around Chernobyl. Alfred Körblein comes to the conclusion that this is connected to caesium exposure. There has been a second increase in perinatal mortality in Belarus and in Ukraine since 1989. In the case of this second increase, a link to exposure to strontium of pregnant women has been established. In Ukraine, the "strontium effect" is more dominant than the "caesium effect". It has become clear from the difference between the expected and the actual rate of perinatal mortality that in three Ukrainian regions - Zhytomyr, rural Kiev and Kiev city - alone, 151 children died in 1987 mainly due to the caesium effect, whereas between 1988 and 1991 712 children died as a result of the strontium effect. This means that following Chernobyl there was a total of 863 perinatal deaths in the area as a result of caesium and strontium exposure.

Source :-

http://www.ippnw.org/pdf/chernobyl-h...11-english.pdf
I am sorry but an independent study that has a section with the title "Note on the unreliability of official data published by WHO and IAEA "?

The report quotes 4 authors; one is described in Wikipedia as "known as “the most well-known and likely most relentless anti-nuclear activist”, another is described as a doctor of Psychiatry & Psychotherapy, one has a degree in Biology and another has a degree in Physics and is an ex East German Minister.

I still point to the healthy animals around Chernobyl who, I assume, are not smart enough to stick to only the "safe areas"!
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  #68  
Old 20.10.2014, 22:52
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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There were 64 confirmed deaths at Chernobyl. Everything else is speculation with no factual basis.
According to the WHO report as of mid-2005, fewer than 50 deaths had been directly attributed to radiation from the disaster (average less than one per year), 9 children in the area died of thyroid cancer out of 4,000 cases - full report here.

I suppose you have read the articles about wild life in the area around Chernobyl? No mutated or monstrous animals or plants but many more healthy animals and plants than before the accident.
Radiation effects would show up sooner around the nuclear plant than in Finland? Anyway the radioactive cloud from Chernobyl crossed a lot of countries before Finland?
In fact, the plants are so healthy that they don't even rot after being dead for over 20 years. Birds seem to have smaller brains than average as well.

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And the amount of radiation released into the environment by coal mining far exceeds that released by the nuclear industry. (Source - http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...nuclear-waste/ )

By the by, if you're worried about radiation - stop smoking. One of the main carcinogens of tobacco is polonium-210.

Number of fatalities due to Banqiao Hydroelectric Dam failure - ~171'000 people.
Correct, there are lot of radiation sources. I would however still worry about major incidents. The long-time effects of them are not very well known.
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  #69  
Old 20.10.2014, 23:54
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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In fact, the plants are so healthy that they don't even rot after being dead for over 20 years. Birds seem to have smaller brains than average as well.

Correct, there are lot of radiation sources. I would however still worry about major incidents. The long-time effects of them are not very well known.
About "Birds seem to have smaller brains than average as well." Which came first? The chicken or the egg?
They write "fewer spiders and insects—including bees, butterflies and grasshoppers—live there. " so could be the birds with larger brains have moved away to places with more food or maybe more simply less food = smaller brains??
They also wrote "a recent field study of brain size (as reflected by head volume) in the barn swallow Hirundo rustica showed that individuals with larger brains were more difficult to capture"

Interesting that they write "game animals such as wild boar caught outside of the exclusion zone—including some bagged as far away as Germany—continue to show abnormal and dangerous levels of radiation." but nothing about any harmful effects/results on these game animals?
So what do they mean by "dangerous"?

Last edited by marton; 21.10.2014 at 00:20.
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  #70  
Old 31.10.2014, 10:29
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

Swiss local news reporting at it's best:

http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/aargau...eben-128484927

Q "Can I give iodine tablets to my dog or cat?"
A "No, this would lead to a massive overdose. The only animals for which the pills are suitable are cows."
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  #71  
Old 31.10.2014, 10:36
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

I've posted the diagram above before it's a brilliant explanation of radiation doses.
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  #72  
Old 13.11.2014, 22:22
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

I received a further letter in the post today... well not letter, its actually a massive A2 poster sized thing. I thought the language was a bit alarmist, and counter to the anti-panic type of message that a government would want to spread. But then I visited the website listed on the poster (info-jod.ch) and saw that the Greenpeace logo, and can't help but wonder if the language is chosen deliberately to hint that nuclear power stations are inherently dangerous, and should therefore be closed down....
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  #73  
Old 13.11.2014, 22:43
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

This has been on the news today. A green peace sympathizing group has been sending out flyers, with quasi government language, to scare people into not supporting nuclear power.

Despicable behaviour, frightening people when the government is doing it's best. (I hope)
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  #74  
Old 13.11.2014, 23:00
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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This has been on the news today. A green peace sympathizing group has been sending out flyers, with quasi government language, to scare people into not supporting nuclear power.

Despicable behaviour, frightening people when the government is doing it's best. (I hope)
seems they sent out a million letters so they must be well funded?

Quote here in German language.
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  #75  
Old 13.11.2014, 23:07
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

got the letter saying I'd get some a month ago but not got any since...

I have jodsalz.. will that work
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  #76  
Old 13.11.2014, 23:49
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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I have jodsalz.. will that work
Yes, it will prevent goiter.
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  #77  
Old 14.11.2014, 12:49
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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got the letter saying I'd get some a month ago but not got any since...

I have jodsalz.. will that work
Of course it will, everything does. The only question is though, what for

(Just to avoid confusion as it's a rather serious issue: the salt won't work as replacement for the iodine tablets)
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  #78  
Old 20.11.2014, 13:46
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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I hope that if you live in an area that receives the tablets that you bin them straight away and in the case of a nuclear accident, you don't go crying to mummy like the impertinent little girl that your post suggest you are.
Agree 100% with Tom.

I will keep the tablets in a safe place and if they need to be disposed of then so be it. A small price to pay for having at least a little protection from the effects of radiation poisoning.

So to the OP, get your ticket ready the goodship lollypop is about to leave.
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Old 20.11.2014, 14:41
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

got mine through the mail yesterday and I must say I'm seriously puzzled.

why? because unless I am within reaching distance of the flippin' tablets (since 180 minutes is supposed to be the max safe time WITHOUT the tablets), then it's just a fabulous marketing exercise from the chemical company that makes this stuff (no, really?).

I HAVE read the accompanying leaflet carefully, and it does NOT say "carry with you at all times in case of a nuclear accident happening within a 50 km radius".
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Old 20.11.2014, 14:53
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Re: Have you taken your Iodine tablets?

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got mine through the mail yesterday and I must say I'm seriously puzzled.

why? because unless I am within reaching distance of the flippin' tablets (since 180 minutes is supposed to be the max safe time WITHOUT the tablets), then it's just a fabulous marketing exercise from the chemical company that makes this stuff (no, really?).
If you're three hours away then you'll be well out of Switzerland so probably don't need to worry as much.
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